Unions once again throw their members under the bus

[thereisnospoon]

yeah, if the Unions agreed to an 8% pay cut, they'd be back at work.

Until the next crisis where they'd be asked for more pay cuts and more force cuts and more salary cuts and maybe some folks get injured because they don't have enough personnel on the machines.

SO this is your logic...ZERO % is better than 92%?

Depends. Most of these guys will probably get jobs at Hostess's competitors that did all the things. Especially once their competitors buy up the factories and the brand names.

If you are the guys who bought the right to "Twinky", you'd probably want a guy whose been baking them for 20 years.

The only way to put an end to Corporate Vampires is to drive a stake through their hearts.

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[
OK This is great. The union guys, supposedly the best of the best, hence their far above market wages, were supposed to be able to identify anything out of the ordinary.
When the work gets done correctly the unions boast of their superior abilities.
And such was the case when the Big Dig was ongoing.
Thing is when the shit hit the fan, the unions stepped in with their collective "wasn't us".
And of course, we're all just supposed to swallow that story.

Wow, it took a while for you to come up with that excuse, eh?

So it was the union guys fault private contractors used sub-standard materials and knew they were doing so. Private Contractors that gave a shitload of money to Romney to help him get elected. Nope, nothing to see here.

You tried to blame the problem on unions. In fact, the problem was the contractors using sub-standard materials to increase their profit margin. But Profit is good.

Oh no you don't...The story was quite different.
For starters, lets shit can the offset nonsense about these mysterious outside contractors and the then Governor Romney.
Now, the job was 100% union. Of course the unions were touting their greatness. Except when the complaints about how much extra time the job was taking and of course the typical "cost over runs"...Then the union whipped out their finger pointing machine.
When the panels fell, once again the "proud union" went into circle the wagons mode and blamed everyone else.
Now here's the rub. No one is stating that it was the direct actions of any one or any group of workers at fault. The problem is those representing the people doing the work were very quick to deflect all responsibility in another direction. That fact that people died or had suffered massive injuries seemed to mean nothing to these people.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Unions did for Hostess what they did for Detroit and the US Auto industry

Got people good wages and safe working conditions?

Oh, the horror...

You miss the good old days, don't you?

Why don't they just start their own company?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Unions representing Hostess Bakery workers were warned bu the company that a job action would result in the company shutting down and seeking to liquidate assets.
The unions refused to budge and decided the company owners were bluffing. Today, 18,500 workers lost their jobs and an American Icon was put out of business by greedy union bosses.
VIDEO Twinkies-maker Hostess to cease operations - baltimoresun.com
Hostess to cease operations, close local retail stores

The owners of Hostess through them under the bus you idiot.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unions representing Hostess Bakery workers were warned bu the company that a job action would result in the company shutting down and seeking to liquidate assets.
The unions refused to budge and decided the company owners were bluffing. Today, 18,500 workers lost their jobs and an American Icon was put out of business by greedy union bosses.
VIDEO Twinkies-maker Hostess to cease operations - baltimoresun.com
Hostess to cease operations, close local retail stores

The owners of Hostess through them under the bus you idiot.

This is my comeback for you calling me an idiot.
Go fuck a duck.
The company asked for an 8% concession. The union said no. The company said 8% or we close the plants. The union said no. They closed the plants.
Again, you liberals show your incredible intelligence.
This is the equivalent to burning down your house because it needs to be painted.
Stupidity.

 

[JoeB131]

[You don't think. You guess.
What the fuck are you guessing for. You are wasting your time. Do you have a reading problem. Just got through indicating that I never was nor will I ever be interested in joining a labor collective.
...Without business, there ARE NO JOBS...
It is none of anyone's business the earnings of another. That's why these rules are in place.
In the more widely accepted merit pay situation, wages of an individual are a private matter between the worker and the employer. That is how it should be.
Again, you have this problem with not minding your own business.
You accuse me of being brainwashed. Do you ever read your own posts?

Guy, I used to buy the Right Wing Bullshit until about five years ago, when my Romney Fan boss showed me the true meaning of Christmas...

I have you pegged. Why do I get the feeling at most of your jobs, your co-workers hate you and just leave you off in some corner.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[You don't think. You guess.
What the fuck are you guessing for. You are wasting your time. Do you have a reading problem. Just got through indicating that I never was nor will I ever be interested in joining a labor collective.
...Without business, there ARE NO JOBS...
It is none of anyone's business the earnings of another. That's why these rules are in place.
In the more widely accepted merit pay situation, wages of an individual are a private matter between the worker and the employer. That is how it should be.
Again, you have this problem with not minding your own business.
You accuse me of being brainwashed. Do you ever read your own posts?

Guy, I used to buy the Right Wing Bullshit until about five years ago, when my Romney Fan boss showed me the true meaning of Christmas...

I have you pegged. Why do I get the feeling at most of your jobs, your co-workers hate you and just leave you off in some corner.

Your feelings of self importance are galactic.
The only thing you have "pegged" is your ability to wallow in your own misery.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Keep telling yourself that.
The sad part is you show no remorse or even concern about those people the union put out of work.
Preemptive strike to your next comment....
Custer took a stand. How'd that work out.

 

[asterism]

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

 

[JoeB131]

Whoooops.... Looks like the Hedge Fund guys are about to blink!

Hostess, union agree to try mediation to avoid liquidation - latimes.com

Twinkies may live on after all.

Bankrupt Hostess Brands Inc. and its striking union agreed to enter into mediation to try to resolve their differences, putting the baking company's planned liquidation on hold for now.

At a U.S. Bankruptcy Court hearing Monday in White Plains, N.Y., the 82-year-old company sought permission to start shutting down its business. Instead, Judge Robert Drain urged Hostess and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union to consider mediation.

Both sides agreed to try to work through the conflict, which could preserve more than 18,000 jobs. Those include 550 positions for workers at two bakeries and seven retail stores in Los Angeles and Orange counties, as of the start of the year.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes but as most other private sector employers (93%) are non union those jobs will be hard to come by. The Hostess workers should have thought outside the box. They should have kept their jobs with the small concessions. Now there are nearly 20k people out of work. That makes NO SENSE at all.
Your union mentality is so stupid. You people are backwards. You cheer for the closing of the very business that provides the jobs. When the business closes, you then whine "what about our jobs"..
You cannot have it both ways.
This is all moot. The union fucked up and 18 thousand people no longer have a livelihood. Brilliant.
I hope all of those displaced workers DO find jobs. Outside the grasp of those stupid unions.

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

If you are expecting a rational answer with links to facts, expect to pass a few birthdays.

 

[asterism]

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

Just as I suspected, you can't prove your own statement.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Whoooops.... Looks like the Hedge Fund guys are about to blink!

Hostess, union agree to try mediation to avoid liquidation - latimes.com

Twinkies may live on after all.

Bankrupt Hostess Brands Inc. and its striking union agreed to enter into mediation to try to resolve their differences, putting the baking company's planned liquidation on hold for now.

At a U.S. Bankruptcy Court hearing Monday in White Plains, N.Y., the 82-year-old company sought permission to start shutting down its business. Instead, Judge Robert Drain urged Hostess and the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union to consider mediation.

Both sides agreed to try to work through the conflict, which could preserve more than 18,000 jobs. Those include 550 positions for workers at two bakeries and seven retail stores in Los Angeles and Orange counties, as of the start of the year.

No Mr Wishful Thinking, a judge decided that the proper mediation proceedings had not been completed. The Judge asked the parties to sit down with a Mediator.
no one is "Blinking".....Amazing the flow of propaganda from your keyboard.
BTW, the only difference between a direct bargaining ( coercion) session and mediation is there is a third party present to referee the discussion..
Someone to knock some sense into the heads of both sides.
Hostess owners do not want to go out of business. The union does not want to suffer the bad publicity of losing 18,000 members.
Concessions will have to be met for sure for this to work.
The 75% cut in the pension contribution is more than fair. Workers SHOULD absolutely be contributing to their own pensions. I think a 50/50 split works. The worker contributes 5% of his wages and the company matches it. No overtime pay is included. And no vacation or sick pay either. I think in order to add to one's pension, they should be at work to do so.

As far as health insurance. $400 per month for each worker sounds good. That is what most middle income private sector workers pay. And a new plan. $25 co-pay. $2000 per person annual deductible. Free well care after co-pay.
Anything more than that is not sustainable.
If they want to work, here it is.
Take it leave it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

Just as I suspected, you can't prove your own statement.

What did I tell ya. Not only are you not going to get a rational response. You'll be told to prove a negative.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Most of hostesses competitors are unions shops to start with...

A few of teh scabs might find slave wage jobs working at a bakery with ex-cons... and they'll probably be safer doing it.

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

We do not prove negatives here. Go look for your facts. Don't come back until you have them for all to read.
This is not a negotiation.

 

[JoeB131]

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

Just as I suspected, you can't prove your own statement.

No, I just don't waste my time posting links.

Never have. Never will.

You know why?

Because when I do, the person who asks for them say, 'Well, that didn't come from Fox News, so it must not be true!" or they pretend they didn't see them. Then they talk the same shit on another thread.

But read up... they have 100,000 members in that union..

Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JoeB131]

Back that up with some facts. You said, "most" so you need to show us the number of competitors total and then list those that are union.

Get going.

Prove me wrong. I don't waste my time finding links for people who will pretend they never saw them.

We do not prove negatives here. Go look for your facts. Don't come back until you have them for all to read.
This is not a negotiation.

Make me go away, dickweed...

Frankly, I got bored with you days ago... little plutocratic bootlick that you are.

 

[JoeB131]

No Mr Wishful Thinking, a judge decided that the proper mediation proceedings had not been completed. The Judge asked the parties to sit down with a Mediator.
no one is "Blinking".....Amazing the flow of propaganda from your keyboard.
BTW, the only difference between a direct bargaining ( coercion) session and mediation is there is a third party present to referee the discussion..
Someone to knock some sense into the heads of both sides.
Hostess owners do not want to go out of business. The union does not want to suffer the bad publicity of losing 18,000 members.
Concessions will have to be met for sure for this to work.
The 75% cut in the pension contribution is more than fair. Workers SHOULD absolutely be contributing to their own pensions. I think a 50/50 split works. The worker contributes 5% of his wages and the company matches it. No overtime pay is included. And no vacation or sick pay either. I think in order to add to one's pension, they should be at work to do so.

As far as health insurance. $400 per month for each worker sounds good. That is what most middle income private sector workers pay. And a new plan. $25 co-pay. $2000 per person annual deductible. Free well care after co-pay.
Anything more than that is not sustainable.
If they want to work, here it is.
Take it leave it.

First, only 5000 Hostess employees are represented by BCTGM.

Second, if the HEdge Fund assholes really thought they could make their money back liquidating the company, they'd have done so a long time ago.

THIS is why the Hedge FUnd is trouble. They borrowed a shitload of money to turn this thing around and they can't.