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I am strongly pro-union but I agree with the thrust of your argument. Unions are essential but not perfect. There needs to be some trimming and adjustment to optimize them..
The problem with the union issue is that it has become politicized. And when that happens, everything becomes dumbed down, simplified and binary. And when that happens, virtually nothing of substance can be accomplished.
Change the scope and approach of unions and you'll save them. Keep the collective bargaining for working wages and the ability to maintain and improve workplace safety. Jettison the long-term pension plans that massively increase costs for business and move to 401Ks; get rid of the ridiculous union protection rules that add to inefficiencies, such as only certain people can do this task, or you need three trucks to accomplish what one truck could.
But no, both sides would have to give in with this approach, and we can't have that. Instead, both "sides" continue to play politics as unions crumble and the middle class vanishes. Either unions remain exactly as they are or they disappear. Absurd.
The decay continues. A pox on both houses. Partisans need to find a new fucking hobby so the rest of us can try to improve things.
.
My son-in-law drives an eighteen-wheeler for UPS. He said the shop steward in his local will not support improper performance or unreasonable conduct by members. As a result they have a good relationship with management and there have been zero grievances filed in recent years. When they have a legitimate complaint he brings it to management and it is quickly and quietly resolved.
Remember, they care FOR YOU legal citizens
SNIP:
AFL-CIO WANTS OBAMA TO GIVE 'AFFIRMATIVE ACTION' TO ILLEGALS
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byTONY LEE2 Sep 2014201POST A COMMENT
The AFL-CIO wants President Barack Obama to give "affirmative action" to illegal immigrants who are in the shadows and to go "bold" on executive amnesty.
At aChristian Science Monitorbreakfastlast week, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka reportedly said that he hoped Obama enacts executive amnesty that is "bold enough to be worthwhile." When he was asked "what the labor movement would consider to be bold action on immigration," Trumka reportedly answered, “Affirmative action with workers to let them come out of the shadows."
According to an NBC News report this week, "Labor unions want the president to shield as many immigrants as possible from deportation and to give those who can work the chance to do so legally" because they believe enforcing current immigration laws "chills organizing efforts" by illegal immigrants.
They also want Obama to "protect immigrant workers who join a union or file official complaints about work conditions." The AFL-CIO reportedly wants any illegal immigrant who is employed "to qualify for any immigration relief Obama may authorize." The union also wants "protections for immigrants who become authorized to work because of Obama’s actions to prevent them from being fired by employers fearful of enforcement because they employed workers not legally here."
Labor groups also seek protections for senior workers and temporary work permits for illegal immigrants "in a contentious workplace where immigration is being used to intimidate workers who exercise their rights." They want to "remove the potential use of intimidation."
Trumka conceded last week that the labor movement was "still in crisis" and said that only a bold executive amnesty would energize the left.
ALL of it here:
AFL-CIO Wants Obama to Give Affirmative Action to Illegals
Unions: Why the Tappan Zee Bridge will be years late and at least $1B over budget
"The builder of the new Tappan Zee Bridge is accusing leaders of a major labor union of concocting a "back-room" deal to squeeze an extra $7 million out of the project for their members, according to court documents obtained by The Journal News/lohud.
Tappan Zee Constructors' allegation is part of an ongoing legal battle with the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America (UBC) and its two affiliates, Dockbuilders Local 1556 and Carpenters Local 279, over which trade has jurisdiction over certain work on the bridge's foundation — and at what wage.
Under the union's plan, costs would be $7.3 million higher because workers would earn the dockbuilders' hourly wage and benefit rate of $92.47, which is $22 an hour more than the carpenters' compensation."
Labor pains Tappan Zee builders union in money dispute
why not make unions illegal again so we all don't have to pay the sleezeballs higher rip-off tolls everytime we cross the bridge! I'd rather pay fair tolls and use the savings to stimulate or buy stuff in non-union industries that give me good value!!
A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
Let us get rid of the police unions....
Yawn. Calling someone an idiot is not an argument, rather the logical fallacy 'ad hominem'. It is history Edward, 19th to early 20th to be precise. If you want to see how corporations operate when they don't have to keep good work safety standards or have to pay their workers well, then look at how US and Chinese corporations operate in China.A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
Pure and perfect liberal ignorance. Proof that a liberal will have the IQ of a child!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
It is inconceivable that a person would not know that until you consider that some people are liberals!!
Yawn. Calling someone an idiot is not an argument, rather the logical fallacy 'ad hominem'. It is history Edward, 19th to early 20th to be precise. If you want to see how corporations operate when they don't have to keep good work safety standards or have to pay their workers well, then look at how US and Chinese corporations operate in China.A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
Pure and perfect liberal ignorance. Proof that a liberal will have the IQ of a child!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
It is inconceivable that a person would not know that until you consider that some people are liberals!!
Nope, that has never been the case. There is no such thing in a consumer market as a 'best product', only a 'best marketed product', or a product with features most in tune to a large number of people at the time*. Many of the products we use today, perhaps were not marketable a decade ago, and might not be marketable in the future.Yawn. Calling someone an idiot is not an argument, rather the logical fallacy 'ad hominem'. It is history Edward, 19th to early 20th to be precise. If you want to see how corporations operate when they don't have to keep good work safety standards or have to pay their workers well, then look at how US and Chinese corporations operate in China.A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
Pure and perfect liberal ignorance. Proof that a liberal will have the IQ of a child!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
It is inconceivable that a person would not know that until you consider that some people are liberals!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
please rewrite this 100 times then post on fridge for daily review!!
If its over your head please try to ask an intelligent question about it. As a liberal we assume it will be over your head since liberalism is based in ignorance, but you must try anyway.
*Feasibly a Samsung phone, an iPhone, and so on are all useful products, but it is marketing and feature differences in tune to certain demographics that get people to buy them.
. The law finally recognized that the capitalists would NEVER voluntarily provide "reasonable" wages and benefits because without government support for collective bargaining, any time a worker complained he could simply be fired.
Thus the middle-class of factory workers and miners and truck drivers who, a couple generations ago, could afford to own their own home by age 25, drive a new car every couple years, and support a wife and family, is a historical oddity, never to return. It's a pity.
A bit of historical perspective from an old person who has seen many sides of the Union movement:
The National Labor Relations Act was the culmination of many decades of strife between - basically - capitalists and the people who worked for them. The law finally recognized that the capitalists would NEVER voluntarily provide "reasonable" wages and benefits because without government support for collective bargaining, any time a worker complained he could simply be fired. Thus the power was all on the employer's side. The NLRA allowed workers to organize and bargain collectively, and prohibited the capitalists from penalizing them or firing them simply for trying to organize.
In highly-competitive industries where most of the basic work is unskilled or semi-skilled, collective bargaining is appropriate. However, with the global economy, the downward pressure on costs from offshore - often subsidized by the local governments - a good CBA is often a pyrhhic victory, as the employer is on a slow train to bankruptcy.
TODAY'S UNIONS HAVE FIGURED OUT that the greatest revenues (union dues) come from industries that are not competitive, or in the public sector, where there is no competitor. Thus their greatest successes in recent years are in state and local government, quasi-government entities like transportation "authorities," public utilities, and the few remaining industries where all of the major competitors are unionized. I suppose kudos are in order for the SIEU, which strives to organize food and service workers, whose dues would not be all that "profitable," but whose assistance in wage & benefit bargaining is sorely needed.
By design or not, we have reached the point where the capitalists again hold the power disproportionately, and non-skilled and semi-skilled workers are sucking on the hind teat again. Employers can source things from off-shore, move to friendlier states, automate the basic work so that fewer low-skilled people are needed, and so on. Thus the middle-class of factory workers and miners and truck drivers who, a couple generations ago, could afford to own their own home by age 25, drive a new car every couple years, and support a wife and family, is a historical oddity, never to return. It's a pity.
When I graduated from high school in Pittsburgh in 1967, kids who went to college were mocked by their classmates who had found jobs at the mill (US Steel, Jones & Laughlin Steel, Ambridge, etc). They would go off to college, get a degree, and make LESS than the mill-workers who had been "too dumb" to go to college. Yuk, yuk, yuk.
Nope, that has never been the case. There is no such thing in a consumer market as a 'best product', only a 'best marketed product', or a product with features most in tune to a large number of people at the time*. Many of the products we use today, perhaps were not marketable a decade ago, and might not be marketable in the future.Yawn. Calling someone an idiot is not an argument, rather the logical fallacy 'ad hominem'. It is history Edward, 19th to early 20th to be precise. If you want to see how corporations operate when they don't have to keep good work safety standards or have to pay their workers well, then look at how US and Chinese corporations operate in China.A fact many Americans seem to have forgotten, as without workers organizations the corporations would treat workers as badly as they did in the early days of industry.The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.
Pure and perfect liberal ignorance. Proof that a liberal will have the IQ of a child!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
It is inconceivable that a person would not know that until you consider that some people are liberals!!
Corporations have to offer the best jobs and products possible just to survive!!
please rewrite this 100 times then post on fridge for daily review!!
If its over your head please try to ask an intelligent question about it. As a liberal we assume it will be over your head since liberalism is based in ignorance, but you must try anyway.
However corporations can offer terrible products, have a bad reputation, and still survive very well due to marketing and government lobbying - like weapons companies, agricultural companies like Monsanto, and private military companies like Blackwater. People work where the pay is if they have enough qualifications, but most just have to accept whatever job is out there - to suggest that someone works at a corporation because it is the 'best job available' probably only relates to a very small percentage, not even CEOs who do it largely for the money or for a challenge.
Finally, 'Liberal' like most generalizations is silly and ineffective when used against individuals not part of US political organizations, but it seems to be a slur people like to throw around these days, not that it actually means anything more than 'conservative', 'right wing', 'left wing' and so on.
*Feasibly a Samsung phone, an iPhone, and so on are all useful products, but it is marketing and feature differences in tune to certain demographics that get people to buy them.
Monsanto Named 2013 s Most Evil Corporation In New PollHere's the vote breakdown:
Monsanto 51%
Federal Reserve 20%
British Petroleum 9%
Halliburton 5%
McDonald's 3%
Pfizer 2%
Merck 2%
Wal-Mart 2%
Nestle 1%
Other 7%
While I agree with everything you just outlined, I don't actually think it will change much..
The problem with the union issue is that it has become politicized. And when that happens, everything becomes dumbed down, simplified and binary. And when that happens, virtually nothing of substance can be accomplished.
Change the scope and approach of unions and you'll save them. Keep the collective bargaining for working wages and the ability to maintain and improve workplace safety. Jettison the long-term pension plans that massively increase costs for business and move to 401Ks; get rid of the ridiculous union protection rules that add to inefficiencies, such as only certain people can do this task, or you need three trucks to accomplish what one truck could.
But no, both sides would have to give in with this approach, and we can't have that. Instead, both "sides" continue to play politics as unions crumble and the middle class vanishes. Either unions remain exactly as they are or they disappear. Absurd.
The decay continues. A pox on both houses. Partisans need to find a new fucking hobby so the rest of us can try to improve things.
.
