Unions in the US

[RadiomanATL]

Here is what Union workers cost the truck buyer.

The average GM assembly-line worker makes about $29 per hour in wages.

GM produces 1,428 trucks a day

Union employees 214

$29.00 Hr. X 8 hours X 214 Union workers = $49648.00 -:- 1428 Trks = 34.77 a truck labor.

Any questions?


Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN




Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

So the only people who are union workers at GM are the assembly line workers? Not the forklift drivers, the parts drivers, the secretaries, the janitors, AND THE RETIRED WORKERS WHO ARE STILL RECEIVING BENEFITS.

Idiot.

We are talking Union Members on the assembling line THAT BUILD CARS.

No, we're talking about hidden costs in the building of automobiles.

You're the one that trying to reframe the argument into something else. No one else is falling for it though.

 

[The T]

Here is what Union workers cost the truck buyer.

The average GM assembly-line worker makes about $29 per hour in wages.

GM produces 1,428 trucks a day

Union employees 214

$29.00 Hr. X 8 hours X 214 Union workers = $49648.00 -:- 1428 Trks = 34.77 a truck labor.

Any questions?


Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN




Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

So the only people who are union workers at GM are the assembly line workers? Not the forklift drivers, the parts drivers, the secretaries, the janitors, AND THE RETIRED WORKERS WHO ARE STILL RECEIVING BENEFITS.

Idiot.

We are talking Union Members on the assembling line THAT BUILD CARS. Get a fucking grip! You are Losing it scabby. Imbecile, read the thread if you are going to keep up. DUH!

Is this supposed to be intimidation? Sorry. There are more workers that get along based on tier own merit than having thugs coerce it.

Try again...you really suck at this shithead.

 

[shintao]

I detect Shintao might be a union hack? I too have had a couple bad experiences with union workers...Out of the couple times I've ever dealt with them personally...Libs complain about a couple instances of violence in thousands of tea Party rallies, but ignore the fact that there is violence in every 2-3 union rallies...There should be a wage cap on union members...minimum wage + 20%...their original intent was to protect the most vulnerable workers...Fat ass plumbers, electicians, and auto workers, who make $35 an hour have destroyed the market for future fat ass plumbers, electricians, and auto workers.

Glew must be a scab corporate Hack? Yes, a proud Union member here.

Yes Shintao, it is true...Us land surveyors are in deeeeep with large corporations...lolol...All 13 employees in the company I worked for get paid by GE, IBM, and Wells Fargo to stump for the utopian dream that is big business...hahaha...Now I might think that you DO get on buses to protest this or that company, that your union masters decide are against the collective?

No, I retired from the Union in 1990, so I have no corporate masters to answer to, cept my two ladies. haha And have never been on a Union bus either. That must be something new. Why would a Union worker driving a 300 Touring be riding on a bus anywhere?

And what do you mean by collective?

 

[The T]

Glew must be a scab corporate Hack? Yes, a proud Union member here.

Yes Shintao, it is true...Us land surveyors are in deeeeep with large corporations...lolol...All 13 employees in the company I worked for get paid by GE, IBM, and Wells Fargo to stump for the utopian dream that is big business...hahaha...Now I might think that you DO get on buses to protest this or that company, that your union masters decide are against the collective?

No, I retired from the Union in 1990, so I have no corporate masters to answer to, cept my two ladies. haha And have never been on a Union bus either. That must be something new. Why would a Union worker driving a 300 Touring be riding on a bus anywhere?

And what do you mean by collective?

No...but you sure bend over to your political masters.

 

[shintao]

Are you another capitalist that would work for free to have a job?

If that is what it takes to get my foot in the door, then yes...And as far as benefits...I wouldn't think that the people I work for can print money, and then try to screw them as if they could...One of these days a business, no matter how big, is going to grow some balls and tell the unions to f**k off...I for one will cheer and throw some business there way to show my support.

Well, good for you. At least you have some principles, and can admit you would work for free to have a job.

 

[goldcatt]

I countered each and every point.

You countered with "you folded and ran".


I don't think anyone is fooled here sparky.

So the only people who are union workers at GM are the assembly line workers? Not the forklift drivers, the parts drivers, the secretaries, the janitors, AND THE RETIRED WORKERS WHO ARE STILL RECEIVING BENEFITS.

Idiot.

There's also the inconvenient fact that hourly wages alone don't reflect the total compensation package for ANY of these employees or retirees.

You're talking turkey, he's chucking us a chicken leg and calling it Thanksgiving.

Good point.

Actually, I would chuck all of it except for the part about continuing benefits for the pensioners. I mean, a non-union carmaker would still have to pay all those people too, and offer a competitive benefits package. The difference is that a non-union shop won't offer medical insurance for life, and usually offers a 401(k) instead of a pension. A pension straight up comes out of the companies coffers, for the life of the pensioner. A 401(k), the company contributes while the worker is actually working for the company, as part of a total compensation package. And usually it is up to the worker how much the company actually contributes, within a set of parameters.

There are comparisons out there that show in the auto manufacturing area at least there is a difference between union and non-union benefits and wages. Of course, there's also a difference in the geography and average cost of living between the average GM plant and the typical non-union, foreign owned plant. So it's difficult to say how much net effect the union had in those cases. It may be the union, or it may be simply the local prevailing wages and benefit packages setting the disparate compensation scale.

 

[RadiomanATL]

There's also the inconvenient fact that hourly wages alone don't reflect the total compensation package for ANY of these employees or retirees.

You're talking turkey, he's chucking us a chicken leg and calling it Thanksgiving.

Good point.

Actually, I would chuck all of it except for the part about continuing benefits for the pensioners. I mean, a non-union carmaker would still have to pay all those people too, and offer a competitive benefits package. The difference is that a non-union shop won't offer medical insurance for life, and usually offers a 401(k) instead of a pension. A pension straight up comes out of the companies coffers, for the life of the pensioner. A 401(k), the company contributes while the worker is actually working for the company, as part of a total compensation package. And usually it is up to the worker how much the company actually contributes, within a set of parameters.

There are comparisons out there that show in the auto manufacturing area at least there is a difference between union and non-union benefits and wages. Of course, there's also a difference in the geography and average cost of living between the average GM plant and the typical non-union, foreign owned plant. So it's difficult to say how much net effect the union had in those cases. It may be the union, or it may be simply the local prevailing wages and benefit packages setting the disparate compensation scale.

Yeah, which is partially why I chucked everything except retiree benefits.

 

[shintao]

That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle.​

The article gives a good breakdown of what the unions cost the car-buyer.

Here is what Union workers cost the truck buyer.

The average GM assembly-line worker makes about $29 per hour in wages.

GM produces 1,428 trucks a day

Union employees 214

$29.00 Hr. X 8 hours X 214 Union workers = $49648.00 -:- 1428 Trks = 34.77 a truck labor.

Any questions?


Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN




Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

Yes. Why are you leaving out the benefits packages and the retiree pensions? That pushes the rate up to around $70/hour, as I showed in the other article.

I am from CA, show me where that $41. an hour is hidiing. And that isn't close (328. vs. 2000.) to what the article cited. Try reality...............LOL!

 

[shintao]

Wow, they typical American worker has a house like that?


My boss is screwing us!

Just to make a point that you cannot compete with a Chinese worker, because he can make the product for less. Any of these cons could put their own home & possessions in that picture, and they as individuals would still not be able to compete with the chinese worker in that hut. And that as the point for the dumbed-down exercise for the cons.

And what is China's STAND on Unions? That's right...they're all in JAIL and re-education camps.

What is your point dipshit? That Americans cannot compete with the Chinese even if they are NonUnion scabs?

 

[The T]

Just to make a point that you cannot compete with a Chinese worker, because he can make the product for less. Any of these cons could put their own home & possessions in that picture, and they as individuals would still not be able to compete with the chinese worker in that hut. And that as the point for the dumbed-down exercise for the cons.

And what is China's STAND on Unions? That's right...they're all in JAIL and re-education camps.

What is your point dipshit? That Americans cannot compete with the Chinese even if they are NonUnion scabs?

And the Statist government pukes you so proudly hail sure as Hell saw to that didn't they?

Sorry you lose. Go play elsewhere.

 

[shintao]

First, you're an idiot then
Second, here ya go:



GM in Crisis—5 Reasons Why America's Largest Car Company Teeters on the Edge - Popular Mechanics


Now will you go away?

So 0ne out of five items on your list has to do with worker benefits? Are you another capitalist that would work for free to have a job? Is this why you think workers shouldn't have benefits to cover their families? Is this why you don't feel you should make a living wage for your family? Come on Capitalist, tell me all about how you are deserving, but no one else is? LMAO!!!

Are those goalposts heavy?
You asked me to prove my claim that 2 grand of new car prices is attributed to legacy costs.
I did that.

This is what you are asking a sane person to believe.

That 1428 workersx2000.00 = are paid $2,856,000.00 a day in benefits at just one plant. LMAO!! Who negotiated that contract for GM??

I have zero obligation to answer these newest set of questions.
Just to ease your conscience, however,
I work for a Fortune 300 company whose benefits are provided by a Fortune 100 company.
A company that was one of only 2 dozen others that realized an increase in our stock prices in the previous year.
The only one in our particular industry that actually grew new locations last year (and this year).

I do quite well.
I don't need to pay any dues to an invisible political machine.

So as a fortune 500 member, do you actually believe GM is paying 1428 workers $2.9 Million a day in benefits??? I mean, be logical man, the article is a lie.......

 

[RadiomanATL]

Keep on displaying those poor English skills...

 

[Cain]

I used to think Unions where a great thing, but then my dad (factory worker/farmer) told me about the union that tried to get him several years ago. They basically told him, if he didn't join their union, they'd get him fired. Say the least, my dad refused, and no he didn't get fired, but he told me he lost all respect for unions. He said they would have deducted so much per year for membership and he'd have had to go to meetings and such.

I love the movie Hoffa, even though I have heard that it was accurate and then terribly not accurate, it made me think, brotherhood in a common cause is a great thing, and it always will be, but when you decide to punish the people who don't want with you, well, then your infringing other people's rights to get your own way.

 

[shintao]

By the way, the article is lying to suggest a worker is getting $2,000. benefits a car. That is absurd. Further it is a lie that the workers are getting $75. an hour, when it is only $29.00 an hours. Your dismissed.

That's not the claim. The claim is that unions cost the car buyer 2 grand per car.

And that claim has been substantiated.

That is still absurd as shown above. Get a grip dude. Prove your point if you can, because I proved that is a fallacy.

 

[shintao]

Actually, I can compete. Actually, chinese workers are locked out of what I do. Like I said, you may continue to spout bullshit.

So you lock out the chinese worker from what you do, and think that is the typical worker in America?? You imbecile spouting bullshit, not that I am unhappy you found a way, where 300 million Americans didn't. Scabby.

Coming from someone who's claiming LeBron James is an average American worker, you really have no credibility here, Skippy.

Coming from someone who thinks he can compete with a Chinese living in a mud hut. LMAO!!! Stick you house pic up there dummy, and explain how you can compete with that chinese? Radiohead thinks because he locked out the Chinese (He never proves how he did it), that their cannot be a contest. So what is your story Davey?? You going tell me you can compete with the chinaman worker with the same skills are yours?? LMAO!!!

 

[RadiomanATL]

Radiohead thinks because he locked out the Chinese (He never proves how he did it)

If you are unable to imagine industries that do not compete with others due to geographic restrictions, I'm sorry.

Also, you never asked.

 

[daveman]

Here is what Union workers cost the truck buyer.

The average GM assembly-line worker makes about $29 per hour in wages.

GM produces 1,428 trucks a day

Union employees 214

$29.00 Hr. X 8 hours X 214 Union workers = $49648.00 -:- 1428 Trks = 34.77 a truck labor.

Any questions?


Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN




Seeing the light on the GM line | The Journal Gazette | Fort Wayne, IN

Yes. Why are you leaving out the benefits packages and the retiree pensions? That pushes the rate up to around $70/hour, as I showed in the other article.

I am from CA, show me where that $41. an hour is hidiing. And that isn't close (328. vs. 2000.) to what the article cited. Try reality...............LOL!

If you'd read the article I linked, you wouldn't look so silly right now.

Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts have done similar calculations.

The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.

The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)

The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.

Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.​

 

[daveman]

By the way, the article is lying to suggest a worker is getting $2,000. benefits a car. That is absurd. Further it is a lie that the workers are getting $75. an hour, when it is only $29.00 an hours. Your dismissed.

That's not the claim. The claim is that unions cost the car buyer 2 grand per car.

And that claim has been substantiated.

That is still absurd as shown above. Get a grip dude. Prove your point if you can, because I proved that is a fallacy.

No, you didn't.

 

[daveman]

So you lock out the chinese worker from what you do, and think that is the typical worker in America?? You imbecile spouting bullshit, not that I am unhappy you found a way, where 300 million Americans didn't. Scabby.

Coming from someone who's claiming LeBron James is an average American worker, you really have no credibility here, Skippy.

Coming from someone who thinks he can compete with a Chinese living in a mud hut. LMAO!!! Stick you house pic up there dummy, and explain how you can compete with that chinese? Radiohead thinks because he locked out the Chinese (He never proves how he did it), that their cannot be a contest. So what is your story Davey?? You going tell me you can compete with the chinaman worker with the same skills are yours?? LMAO!!!

Yes, I can, unless you'd like to allow Chinese nationals into the United States Air Force.

Dumbass.

 

[shintao]

So the only people who are union workers at GM are the assembly line workers? Not the forklift drivers, the parts drivers, the secretaries, the janitors, AND THE RETIRED WORKERS WHO ARE STILL RECEIVING BENEFITS.

Idiot.

We are talking Union Members on the assembling line THAT BUILD CARS. Get a fucking grip! You are Losing it scabby. Imbecile, read the thread if you are going to keep up. DUH!

Is this supposed to be intimidation? Sorry. There are more workers that get along based on tier own merit than having thugs coerce it.

Try again...you really suck at this shithead.

Not as bad as as you asshole, who answers responses to other people when you don't have a clue about the conversation, imbecile.

Lose you way again?