Union v. today's market

[Amelia]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

 

[thereisnospoon]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

I wanted to start a "union" thread myself but ran into the same dilemma.

 

[DontBeStupid]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

 

[Vel]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

If they can't restructure to be competitive, what exactly do you expect them to do?

 

[auditor0007]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

If they can't restructure to be competitive, what exactly do you expect them to do?

If being competitive means seeing how close we can get wages to $7.40 per hour, then we are in huge trouble. Grocery store employees are not paid very well even with union representation. Again, it seems that we find ourselves in a race to the bottom to see who can make the least. This is not going to help us.

 

[Vel]

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

If they can't restructure to be competitive, what exactly do you expect them to do?

If being competitive means seeing how close we can get wages to $7.40 per hour, then we are in huge trouble. Grocery store employees are not paid very well even with union representation. Again, it seems that we find ourselves in a race to the bottom to see who can make the least. This is not going to help us.

And how much did closing that store help the 108 employees that lost their jobs?

 

[thereisnospoon]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Three new grocery stores all non union within eye shot of the Piggly...No wonder the store wanted concessions or more likely, the union gone.
This is a typical story. Union ignores economic reality and pushes the company too far. Owners tell union if the union refuses to compromise the whole thing closes. Union digs in heels. A short period of time, the company makes good on it's promise and the workers are in the union hall....Sad.
This is the union mentality of today. as it was 50 60 or 70 years ago. Union bosses have no interest in economic reality. Unions are businesses. And as such operate in their own self interest.
The Piggly Wiggly workers ,all 108 are out of work. The union bosses? They have their jobs!

 

[DontBeStupid]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Three new grocery stores all non union within eye shot of the Piggly...No wonder the store wanted concessions or more likely, the union gone.
This is a typical story. Union ignores economic reality and pushes the company too far. Owners tell union if the union refuses to compromise the whole thing closes. Union digs in heels. A short period of time, the company makes good on it's promise and the workers are in the union hall....Sad.
This is the union mentality of today. as it was 50 60 or 70 years ago. Union bosses have no interest in economic reality. Unions are businesses. And as such operate in their own self interest.
The Piggly Wiggly workers ,all 108 are out of work. The union bosses? They have their jobs!

So what you're saying is, if the other stores had been union stores, this wouldn't have been a problem.

I agree.

 

[Wiseacre]

The judge was an NLRB admin law judge. Color me shocked that he sided with the union.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

THat would require evidence....
Here is the question...If PW which was union was paying $25 per hour including benefits and the three nearby grocers are paying $20 per hour including benefits, how is it possible for the grocer with the union on it's back to be competitive?
The answer is, PW cannot compete.
The other grocers are paying market wages. The unionized grocer is forced to pay above market wages.
You may ask how is it the other grocers are paying/deciding the market rate? Answer...The market is determined by the average wage for similar work in a particular area or community.
The grocer with the union labor has every right to close his business if his research concludes he cannot turn a profit.
The bottom line is the union screwed up and in the end screwed the workers.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

If they can't restructure to be competitive, what exactly do you expect them to do?

If being competitive means seeing how close we can get wages to $7.40 per hour, then we are in huge trouble. Grocery store employees are not paid very well even with union representation. Again, it seems that we find ourselves in a race to the bottom to see who can make the least. This is not going to help us.

How so?

 

[thereisnospoon]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Three new grocery stores all non union within eye shot of the Piggly...No wonder the store wanted concessions or more likely, the union gone.
This is a typical story. Union ignores economic reality and pushes the company too far. Owners tell union if the union refuses to compromise the whole thing closes. Union digs in heels. A short period of time, the company makes good on it's promise and the workers are in the union hall....Sad.
This is the union mentality of today. as it was 50 60 or 70 years ago. Union bosses have no interest in economic reality. Unions are businesses. And as such operate in their own self interest.
The Piggly Wiggly workers ,all 108 are out of work. The union bosses? They have their jobs!

So what you're saying is, if the other stores had been union stores, this wouldn't have been a problem.

I agree.

Correct. The prevailing market wage is determined by the average wage for similar work in a given area...Surely you are aware of companies that pay at or even slightly above union scale just to keep unions out, yes?
Now, you'll want to know "what's the point then"..Simple. Union benefits. Unions often demand employers not only pay for 100% of the workers pension fund ,but also foot nearly the entire bill for FULL medical coverage. These additional costs are no longer sustainable........The non union company has medical plans similar to the union shops but the employees pay a percentage of their premium. There are no defined benefit pensions.
Most of these employees have 401k's and profit sharing benefits...Those cost the employer a lot less money.
Example......A typical GM worker prior the government bail out and subsequent takeover of GM by the UAW cost the company about $70 per hour in wages and benefits. Average per hour pay about $27 per hour.
The Toyota plant in Georgetown, KY pays the union scale hourly wage. It's per hour cost is about $42 per man hour.
Pretty simple when you give it a bit of thought.

 

[DontBeStupid]

What forum should union stories go in?


Well, here are two chapters of the story of a Piggly Wiggly in Sheboygan, WI.

May 23, 2012 -- Judge sides with union in Piggly Wiggly case | Sheboygan Press | sheboyganpress.com

By Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel
June 12, 2012 -- Piggly Wiggly to close Sheboygan store, cut 108 jobs - JSOnline​

Another union "win" .....

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

THat would require evidence....
Here is the question...If PW which was union was paying $25 per hour including benefits and the three nearby grocers are paying $20 per hour including benefits, how is it possible for the grocer with the union on it's back to be competitive?
The answer is, PW cannot compete.
The other grocers are paying market wages. The unionized grocer is forced to pay above market wages.
You may ask how is it the other grocers are paying/deciding the market rate? Answer...The market is determined by the average wage for similar work in a particular area or community.
The grocer with the union labor has every right to close his business if his research concludes he cannot turn a profit.
The bottom line is the union screwed up and in the end screwed the workers.

Simple. Service and product. When it comes to grocery stores, going to a place with rude workers and shitty produce will not get you profits. PW could have made the push to have the best staff and best fresh food in town, thus justifying higher prices on some goods to pay for those workers. They instead chose to go out of business.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmm. Piggly Wiggly better be careful how they proceed. This almost sounds vindictive, which I believe is against the law as well.

THat would require evidence....
Here is the question...If PW which was union was paying $25 per hour including benefits and the three nearby grocers are paying $20 per hour including benefits, how is it possible for the grocer with the union on it's back to be competitive?
The answer is, PW cannot compete.
The other grocers are paying market wages. The unionized grocer is forced to pay above market wages.
You may ask how is it the other grocers are paying/deciding the market rate? Answer...The market is determined by the average wage for similar work in a particular area or community.
The grocer with the union labor has every right to close his business if his research concludes he cannot turn a profit.
The bottom line is the union screwed up and in the end screwed the workers.

Simple. Service and product. When it comes to grocery stores, going to a place with rude workers and shitty produce will not get you profits. PW could have made the push to have the best staff and best fresh food in town, thus justifying higher prices on some goods to pay for those workers. They instead chose to go out of business.

It it the union battle cry and an assumption on your part that the mere presence of a union creates a better workforce.
The union has no say over the quality of the produce or for that matter anything else in the store. So that argument doesn't wash.
The "push" as you say cannot work simply because the typical consumer is going to compare prices first. And unless the other stores are selling inferior products( the food companies will not permit this) the typical shopper is going to buy at the lowest price.
Ask yourself...Am I going to spend $3.79 for a dozen farm fresh eggs from Piggly Wiggly or go to Walmart and buy the identical eggs from the same farm for $2.79 per dozen?....Please. Unless you are gung ho union and have more money than brains, you'll be headed to Walmart. And in many cases, the union members spouse shops at Walmart or one of many other discounters.
Now....We have higher end shoppers as well. Rather than go to say, Macy's which is a fine retailer, some will shop at Nordstrom's . That store is famous for pampering it's customers with the finest customer service of perhaps any retailer in the US. The shopper pays a premium for that service. Nordstrom's also sells high end brands of merchandise such as Coach and Gucci.....Nordstrom's, to my knowledge has no union contracts. The employees are very well paid and are among the highest paid retail employees in the US. But, Nordstrom's is highly selective on their hiring practices.
There are no min wage clerks or floor people who are there for a paycheck. These are highly trained customer service people who are highly skilled at their position.

 

[DontBeStupid]

THat would require evidence....
Here is the question...If PW which was union was paying $25 per hour including benefits and the three nearby grocers are paying $20 per hour including benefits, how is it possible for the grocer with the union on it's back to be competitive?
The answer is, PW cannot compete.
The other grocers are paying market wages. The unionized grocer is forced to pay above market wages.
You may ask how is it the other grocers are paying/deciding the market rate? Answer...The market is determined by the average wage for similar work in a particular area or community.
The grocer with the union labor has every right to close his business if his research concludes he cannot turn a profit.
The bottom line is the union screwed up and in the end screwed the workers.

Simple. Service and product. When it comes to grocery stores, going to a place with rude workers and shitty produce will not get you profits. PW could have made the push to have the best staff and best fresh food in town, thus justifying higher prices on some goods to pay for those workers. They instead chose to go out of business.

It it the union battle cry and an assumption on your part that the mere presence of a union creates a better workforce.
The union has no say over the quality of the produce or for that matter anything else in the store. So that argument doesn't wash.
The "push" as you say cannot work simply because the typical consumer is going to compare prices first. And unless the other stores are selling inferior products( the food companies will not permit this) the typical shopper is going to buy at the lowest price.
Ask yourself...Am I going to spend $3.79 for a dozen farm fresh eggs from Piggly Wiggly or go to Walmart and buy the identical eggs from the same farm for $2.79 per dozen?....Please. Unless you are gung ho union and have more money than brains, you'll be headed to Walmart. And in many cases, the union members spouse shops at Walmart or one of many other discounters.

Wow. You made a whole lot of assumptions on things I never said. For the record, and anyone can read and see this, you asked how PW could be competitive. I answered. If you want to make things up and argue with those fabrications, well, you don't need me for that.

As to your question about the dozen eggs, I think you clearly live in a small town with no choice. In L.A., I will absolutely pay more for eggs if the parking is easier, store is cleaner, check out is quicker and workers are friendlier.

You guys need to stop thinking that price is the ONLY thing that matters to consumers.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Simple. Service and product. When it comes to grocery stores, going to a place with rude workers and shitty produce will not get you profits. PW could have made the push to have the best staff and best fresh food in town, thus justifying higher prices on some goods to pay for those workers. They instead chose to go out of business.

It it the union battle cry and an assumption on your part that the mere presence of a union creates a better workforce.
The union has no say over the quality of the produce or for that matter anything else in the store. So that argument doesn't wash.
The "push" as you say cannot work simply because the typical consumer is going to compare prices first. And unless the other stores are selling inferior products( the food companies will not permit this) the typical shopper is going to buy at the lowest price.
Ask yourself...Am I going to spend $3.79 for a dozen farm fresh eggs from Piggly Wiggly or go to Walmart and buy the identical eggs from the same farm for $2.79 per dozen?....Please. Unless you are gung ho union and have more money than brains, you'll be headed to Walmart. And in many cases, the union members spouse shops at Walmart or one of many other discounters.

Wow. You made a whole lot of assumptions on things I never said. For the record, and anyone can read and see this, you asked how PW could be competitive. I answered. If you want to make things up and argue with those fabrications, well, you don't need me for that.

As to your question about the dozen eggs, I think you clearly live in a small town with no choice. In L.A., I will absolutely pay more for eggs if the parking is easier, store is cleaner, check out is quicker and workers are friendlier.

You guys need to stop thinking that price is the ONLY thing that matters to consumers.

Sure you did. You stated that " PW could have made the push to have the best staff and best fresh food in town, thus justifying higher prices on some goods to pay for those workers. ".....How on earth could that make PW competitive? No way....
I live in a large suburban town with three grocery stores within a 5 minute drive of this here house. 10 minutes away are 4 more. So please. Stop the nonsense.
And don't tell me price is not the number one priority in consumerism...It is. Especially in the Southeast.
I made up nothing. I simply explained the realities of of purchasing.
Ever wonder why stores such as BJ's, Costco and Sam's Club have popped up all over the place?
Do you know what significance Costco holds in the retail world?
Read......3 Top Napa and Sonoma Wine Buys | Stark Insider..
I made no assumptions. I deal in facts and reality.