Union thugs go to new low: Bullying Churches

[syrenn]

syrenn, a general contractor is not a tradesman. He employs trades, but he need not have their skills. Trades are people like electricians, plumbers, etc. And yes, in many states the ONLY way to acquire an electricians' license is to join the union and apprentice to a Master Electrician.

Some things cannot be taught in a classroom, and some risks of error are too high for society to tolerate.

Yes, if the church hired licensed workers in conformity with the law, then the hiring was legal. If they did not, it wasn't. It certainly sounds as if the church did not or the unions would not be protesting scab labor at their sites. Are you gonna be all warm and fuzzy if the church's electrical system shorts out, causes a fire and kills the faithful?

I dunno how you come by this hatred for unions, syrenn, but where the trades are concerned it is misplaced. Without them, none of us so would much as dare ride on an elevator.

I understand what the trades are maddie.

Wrong, the ONLY way to get a license is to take the state test. That has nothing to do with the union.

If the ONLY to get a license is to be part of a union. THEN THAT IS BLACKMAIL!

And again. What if after all of this "training" you don't want to be part of the union? Does that make you any less "skilled"

 

[Madeline]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/119200-american-unions-good-or-bad-for-america.html

I am enjoying this convo, miss. I hope we continue the part about unions, over there.

Meanwhile I'll just repeat what I have said before: I don't understand why a property owner who has been immunized from taxes and thusly burdens his community with his expenses should also be exempt from any other law he does not like merely because he is "religious".

If it was legal to hire non-union workers, then so be it -- I doubt that it was, but I don't know, and I'm not motivated enough to investigate the matter to find out.

 

[chanel]

Thank you for asking syrenn. All the contractors I know are licensed and bonded by the state. We do not steal materials or pay slave wages. Our top guys have been with us for almost 20 years. Seems to me they'd quit if they were mistreated, doncha think?

Prevailing union wages for plumbers in this state are around 70 dollars an hour. Sorry we can't afford that. And I doubt if our customers could either.

 

[chanel]

From the NJ Dept. of Labor:

Craft: Plumber PREVAILING WAGE RATE
Foreman
W 43.47
B 32.49
T 75.96
Journeyman
W 39.52
B 32.49
T 72.01
05/01/10 Expiration Date: 04/30/2011

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/forms_pdfs/lsse/wagearchives/Atlantic/2010/atlantic050610.pdf

 

[Madeline]

True, I lived in California in the 70s, and it was bad then.

Remember this is the same state that had Churches attacked after the gay marriage initiative went down in flames.

Its not gotten any better in CA, its gotten worse. Churches were not the reason gay marriage went down in flames.

I know, but that is who the gays blamed.

I had a black teacher who treated me like I personally stood in front of the School in Little Rock and stopped black students from entering the schools (when I hadn't even been born yet, when that happened).

What was my crime? Being 11 years old and moving from Oklahoma to California. Apparently living 200 miles from Little Rock, AK, AFTER the time of those Civil Rights clashes was some kind of "crime" in those days.

This teacher told the entire class I was a racist, because I came from the "South." (I wasn't aware OK was the "South.)

That was california in 1973. That is how I was introduced to the thuggish behavior of liberalism. I doubt it has improved one bit.

teapartysamurai, that is not "Liberalism". That's child abuse. And terrible as it was, it was one incident in an entire lifetime. Not an excuse to stop thinking for life and just be an asshole.

 

[Father Time]

Unions have stepped to a new low by protesting churches in California. Protesting churches because of their use of private contractors instead of union labor. Churches who only employ one or two pastors and one head administrator and operate off of donations.

In Bakersfield, California the local carpenters union is protesting the Grace Baptist Church for hiring a contractor who hired non-union labor. Grace Baptist Church had no control over who the contractor hired.

With video: Unions Protesting Churches in California - Big Government

Since when is it a "shame" to hire non union work? Since when is it required we hire union work?

Is this the United States of America or the Soviet UNION.

Unions protesting does not equal Soviet Union, they have a right to protest even if it's for something stupid.

But anyway this is a new low, not because it's a church but because they didn't owe the unions their business.

 

[Father Time]

With video: Unions Protesting Churches in California - Big Government

Since when is it a "shame" to hire non union work? Since when is it required we hire union work?

Is this the United States of America or the Soviet UNION.

They try to bully banks and now churches?

This is ridiculous. This kind of bullying, should not be tolerated.

Union thugs are lefties. lefty lunatics,, and they all hate religion. The labor was just a reason to bully.. You will see a lot of this til obie wan is out of the WhiteHouse.

Obama is defintely using the unions to do directly, what he will not do himself. (Because, Obama knows he can't get away with it)

Thus the homes of Bank Presidents will be attacked. Churches will be attacked.

Black tea party goers will be beat up.

I hate to make the analogy, because liberals will go nuts about it, but I'm sorry, historically, it fits.

Hitler did the same thing with his SR, aka the "Brown Shirts." (Before the Night of the Long Knives, that is). Hitler stayed supposedly above the fray as Chancellor, while his SR thugs did the dirty work of beating up people that got in the way of the Nazis.

Liberals can have a fit about the analogy to Hitler, but they can't deny the history. It is the same tactic.

Prove then that Obama is controlling these union guys then.

I mean if you're going to make such a drastic charge you should be able to show evidence for it.

 

[Madeline]

What reason would Obama have to want anyone to protest at a church's building site? Some people are so blind they'll blame bad weather on Obama. Why not just admit you hate the black motherfucker and be done with it, teapartysamurai?

My ass itches. Is that also Obama's fault? I'm thinking it YOURS, because you write such goofy paranoid shit.

 

[Father Time]

The non-union contractors from my church often work for free. That must really piss off the union thugs, atheists, and socialists. Charity can only be achieved when forced by the govt. Errr!

I cannot emphasize this enough:

FUCK YOU!

Being an atheist does not mean I like socialists or unions or have some deep seeded grudge against the existence of churches. So don't try to lump me in with that just because I don't believe in some god.

 

[Father Time]

Garbage collection is UNION controlled deal. That's why they don't want you to burn your garbage. If you burn your garbage the UNION cant collect it.

That must be it, clearly it can't be the smell or the smoke or the fire hazard or anything like that, it must be the labors.

 

[Father Time]

In MOST states there is only one path to licensure for the trades: apprenticeship through the unions.

I am unclear why you object so strenuously to a living wage for your fellow Americans, syrenn, but it seems rather un-christian to me. Mebbe that church's property could have been built with slave labor. Or using stolen materials.

A. You don't know their wage
B. The wage was agreed upon beforehand I imagine so comparing it to stolen materials or slavery is just wrong.
C. Being non-union does not mean you have bad working conditions.

 

[Ravi]

Wouldn't it be ironic if it turned out the private contractor employed undocumented workers?

 

[chanel]

Atheists are anti-religion. They also bully with neg rep comments like "go fuck yourself" if they disagree with a post. Thanks for proving our point.

Churches provide many services to the poor and downtrodden. They should be able to hire whomever they choose to save some money. Just like homeowners and businesses. Small businesses employ a lot of people.

 

[Madeline]

Small business are the engine of this nation's economy. SOME religious outfits provide SOME outreach to their communities, but not all, and doing so is not a prerequisite for gaining an immunity from tax. Since a religious outfit has ALREADY deflected its costs onto its community, I am bumfuddled as to why anyone would think it's acceptable for them to break more laws if doing so will save them a penny or two.

This mantra that "atheists hate religion" is bullshit. I don't know any atheists in real life and I doubt that you do either, chanel. The agnostics I know, as well as people like me who believe in God but reject religion, are not out there bellyaching that we are forced to pick up the tab for every religion in town, from snake handlers to voodoo priestesses. We allow you folks to pick our pockets clean without complaint.

Is it too much to ask that your religious outfits follow the few laws they have not yet escaped from? I realize that YOU think any religious outfit is "better than everyone else" but yanno, that just t'aint The American Way.

 

[Avatar4321]

I hate it when people bully churches.

Politicians who support gay marriage are not Catholic, says cardinal

I was unaware that politicians constituted a church.

 

[Gatekeeper]

From the NJ Dept. of Labor:

Craft: Plumber PREVAILING WAGE RATE
Foreman
W 43.47
B 32.49
T 75.96
Journeyman
W 39.52
B 32.49
T 72.01
05/01/10 Expiration Date: 04/30/2011

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/forms_pdfs/lsse/wagearchives/Atlantic/2010/atlantic050610.pdf

This is precisely why I quit a Union that I worked for, a biggie, in the early 70's, in the electronics sector, so you all know what Union I am referring to.. Told the shop steward to stuff it and told the local Union 'Ahole' 'enforcer/rep', who rode around in his NEW big Lincoln smoking a big cigar to stuff it and this Union.

They secured wages for us by, in my opinion, holding up the company with threats of strikes, and we DID strike, and they did secureunreasonably high wages and benefits I couldn't believe, at the expense of the poor consumer that had to get screwed to the wall by these people. That Union eventually, only a year or so later, BROKE that company, they closed their doors. Most Unions, in my opinion, DO NOT give a damn about anyone but themselves, using their little pawns, the union workers, as a tool for their own dollar hungry greedy survival and to support the lavish lifestyles of their bosses, you know those lieutenants, enforcers and cohercers . Sound FAMILIAR FOLKS?

I said to myself that I would NEVER would work for another Union, and never did. Everything I did was because of my own knowledge and dedication to my field. I begged no one for anything, and kissed the 'arses' of no one, for anything. Everything was "Merit Based", and fortunately those I worked for used the same philosophy.

Then later, I and another friend opened our own company, we paid well, and had competitive benefits,not as good as the Unions, we couldn't afford it, and we only lost a couple people in the years before we ended up selling it. No regrets.

Workers DO NEED protection, that's a given, otherwise many companies would have you working 18 hour days for 'peanut pay' and minimal or no benefits. The next question would be, is a UNION they ONLY way to achieve workplace fair pay and benefits? You can discuss that one later.

 

[syrenn]

From the NJ Dept. of Labor:

Craft: Plumber PREVAILING WAGE RATE
Foreman
W 43.47
B 32.49
T 75.96
Journeyman
W 39.52
B 32.49
T 72.01
05/01/10 Expiration Date: 04/30/2011

http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/forms_pdfs/lsse/wagearchives/Atlantic/2010/atlantic050610.pdf

This is precisely why I quit a Union that I worked for, a biggie, in the early 70's, in the electronics sector, so you all know what Union I am referring to.. Told the shop steward to stuff it and told the local Union 'Ahole' 'enforcer/rep', who rode around in his NEW big Lincoln smoking a big cigar to stuff it and this Union.

They secured wages for us by, in my opinion, holding up the company with threats of strikes, and we DID strike, and they did secureunreasonably high wages and benefits I couldn't believe, at the expense of the poor consumer that had to get screwed to the wall by these people. That Union eventually, only a year or so later, BROKE that company, they closed their doors. Most Unions, in my opinion, DO NOT give a damn about anyone but themselves, using their little pawns, the union workers, as a tool for their own dollar hungry greedy survival and to support the lavish lifestyles of their bosses, you know those lieutenants, enforcers and cohercers . Sound FAMILIAR FOLKS?

I said to myself that I would NEVER would work for another Union, and never did. Everything I did was because of my own knowledge and dedication to my field. I begged no one for anything, and kissed the 'arses' of no one, for anything. Everything was "Merit Based", and fortunately those I worked for used the same philosophy.

Then later, I and another friend opened our own company, we paid well, and had competitive benefits,not as good as the Unions, we couldn't afford it, and we only lost a couple people in the years before we ended up selling it. No regrets.

Workers DO NEED protection, that's a given, otherwise many companies would have you working 18 hour days for 'peanut pay' and minimal or no benefits. The next question would be, is a UNION they ONLY way to achieve workplace fair pay and benefits? You can discuss that one later.

Thank you gatekeeper

You make some of my points about the union very well. They are bully thugs out to line their own pockets.

 

[syrenn]

Small business are the engine of this nation's economy. SOME religious outfits provide SOME outreach to their communities, but not all, and doing so is not a prerequisite for gaining an immunity from tax. Since a religious outfit has ALREADY deflected its costs onto its community, I am bumfuddled as to why anyone would think it's acceptable for them to break more laws if doing so will save them a penny or two.

This mantra that "atheists hate religion" is bullshit. I don't know any atheists in real life and I doubt that you do either, chanel. The agnostics I know, as well as people like me who believe in God but reject religion, are not out there bellyaching that we are forced to pick up the tab for every religion in town, from snake handlers to voodoo priestesses. We allow you folks to pick our pockets clean without complaint.

Is it too much to ask that your religious outfits follow the few laws they have not yet escaped from? I realize that YOU think any religious outfit is "better than everyone else" but yanno, that just t'aint The American Way.

again Madeline

What laws did this church break?

 

[chanel]

And tax exempt status is a different topic. That's not what the thugs were protesting,

 

[Father Time]

Atheists are anti-religion.

Wrongo. You can not believe in something and simply not care about it.

They also bully with neg rep comments like "go fuck yourself" if they disagree with a post. Thanks for proving our point.

Your point was that atheists would get upset when insulted and stereotyped?