Unfit to lead

[Emma]

Oh, and this (putting on my tin-foil hat for a moment)??

In the White House's February 2006 Katrina report, U.S. officials said Kuwait's $400 million oil donation was to be sold for cash. Sabah said it was an in-kind pledge made when it appeared that U.S. refining capacity was devastated and that the American public would need fuel.

"We have to see what we have to do with that. When you pledge something in-kind, your intention is to give it in-kind. I do not think now the American people are in need of $400 million of fuel and fuel products," he said.


Since fucking when? I seem to recall the near-hysteria about the refineries being shut down, gas prices going up.

And we weren't in need of fuel and fuel products.

Right.

FTC Releases Report on its “Investigation of Gasoline Price Manipulation and Post-Katrina Gasoline Price Increases”

I wonder if the government looked in the damn mirror in that study.

Disgusting.

 

[Emma]

Hurricane Katrina: Gas and Oil Shortage - SourceWatch

Yeah yeah, wiki. But I do this for convenience' sake as there are a number of references provided.

Dammit. I almost wish I hadn't found that article above. Now I'm pissed off all over again.

"Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue asked the state's schools to take two 'early snow days' and cancel classes Monday and Tuesday [September 26 and 27, 2005,] to help conserve gasoline as Hurricane Rita threatens the nation's fuel supply line," the Associated Press reported September 24, 2005. "If all of Georgia's schools close, the governor estimated about 250,000 gallons of diesel fuel would be saved each day by keeping buses off the road."

In his August 31, 2005, announcement on "Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts," President George W. Bush said:
"The Department of Energy is approving loans from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to limit disruptions in crude supplies for refineries. A lot of crude production has been shut down because of the storm. I instructed Secretary [Sam] Bodman to work with refiners, people who need crude oil, to alleviate any shortage through loans. The Environmental Protection Agency has granted a nationwide waiver for fuel blends to make more gasoline and diesel fuel available throughout the country. This will help take some pressure off of gas price. But our citizens must understand this storm has disrupted the capacity to make gasoline and distribute gasoline."



This thread title is dead on. Unfit to lead, indeed.

 

[froggy]

oh by the way, i wasn't fired and i don't live in virigina. and while i'm at it heres another beef.why should i have had to pay state tax virigina did me no service.

 

[Emma]

oh by the way, i wasn't fired and i don't live in virigina. and while i'm at it heres another beef.why should i have had to pay state tax virigina did me no service.

Get yourself a tax person to help you out. VA has reciprocal agreements with surrounding states (and I'm not sure what others) where taxes you pay there are applied to your home state's tax bill.

It's complicated, at least it was for me because I was moving about every 13 weeks, so I had multiple taxes paid to several states. It was a freakin' nightmare to figure it all out. But I do know that if you don't do it right, you'll end up paying taxes in the state you work in, and then get taxed in your home state based on your total income including what you earned out of state.

 

[froggy]

oh by the way, i wasn't fired and i don't live in virigina. and while i'm at it heres another beef.why should i have had to pay state tax virigina did me no service.

Get yourself a tax person to help you out. VA has reciprocal agreements with surrounding states (and I'm not sure what others) where taxes you pay there are applied to your home state's tax bill.

It's complicated, at least it was for me because I was moving about every 13 weeks, so I had multiple taxes paid to several states. It was a freakin' nightmare to figure it all out. But I do know that if you don't do it right, you'll end up paying taxes in the state you work in, and then get taxed in your home state based on your total income including what you earned out of state.

sound like you been on the rip off train too.

 

[Gudrid]

New Orleans? Can you be more specific, like, which nation raced to our aid.

I see others have covered that.

And it is the point, the US has done more for more countries than any nation on this rock we call earth. That in itself ought to be enough. Has the US made mistakes, yes, but the good we've done far outweighs the bad, depending on who you talk to of course, the left wing losers thinks the US is evil (yet they choose to remain here and that makes everyone of those idiots walking contradictions) while the conservatives see the nobility of our great nation. Those countries need us more than we need them and they'd be wise to remember that.

You mean in the same manner that you're wisely remembering the ways that we depend on them? That sort of wisdom? That's some appreciation for the outpouring of aid that was offered. If you, an American raised with all the advantages of this country, can't acknowledge when other countries send help for a tragedy, then why would you expect anything better from foreign countries, some of which have educational systems worse than ours? Seems like a bit of a double standard.

Either way, like it or not, our economy is interdependent on other nations, as is our success in various global entanglements. Merely the perception difference of having Obama in office slowed down recruiting for terrorist groups. Clearly it is painful for you to say anything positive about Obama, but like it or not his election and his diplomatic skills have had a positive effect on our world standing. To me, that's important, for many reasons.

 

[Emma]

oh by the way, i wasn't fired and i don't live in virigina. and while i'm at it heres another beef.why should i have had to pay state tax virigina did me no service.

Get yourself a tax person to help you out. VA has reciprocal agreements with surrounding states (and I'm not sure what others) where taxes you pay there are applied to your home state's tax bill.

It's complicated, at least it was for me because I was moving about every 13 weeks, so I had multiple taxes paid to several states. It was a freakin' nightmare to figure it all out. But I do know that if you don't do it right, you'll end up paying taxes in the state you work in, and then get taxed in your home state based on your total income including what you earned out of state.

sound like you been on the rip off train too.

Not really. I just didn't realize the complexity of what was entailed in getting these taxes credited to me correctly. I did travel nursing for 2 1/2 years. That meant I'd select a contract from anywhere I wished to work and then live and work in that place for 13 weeks (more if I re-upped). I paid state taxes to whatever state I worked in.

I didn't anticipate how complicated it would be (for me, anyway) to file the taxes correctly. I'm still trying to get it all straightened out (I think I have by now. Lord only knows when the next letter is coming, though).

What happened is (for example) in 2006, I worked all but 13 weeks of the year in VA (I'd accepted contracts out of town but still in VA for the rest). Those 13 weeks were worked in PA. I paid state and local taxes in PA, based upon the total income I made in that state. However, VA calculated my state taxes based upon my reported Federal income for the entire year. So if my total income for the year was $20,000, but $5000 was earned (and taxed) out of state, VA viewed it that I hadn't paid taxes on 1/4 of my income and declared that I owed them money. I filed with PA, and instead of refunding what was owed to me from there, they credit it to my VA tax bill (or something like that---I swear to God my head is swimming again just thinking about it) and supposedly that takes care of things.

Only it didn't.

I received a very nasty letter from the VA state tax critters telling me I still owed over $400 (which I don't) and I was on the verge of a lien. I paid it to protect myself, but still need to get with a tax attorney to hash it all out and get my money back.

As much as I loved the travel job, I wouldn't do it again without going to a tax attorney first and trying to get this straightened out in advance to avoid these headaches again. I know I was ignorant and ignorance of the law is now excuse blah blah blah, but damn it was a convoluted mess.

 

[froggy]

Get yourself a tax person to help you out. VA has reciprocal agreements with surrounding states (and I'm not sure what others) where taxes you pay there are applied to your home state's tax bill.

It's complicated, at least it was for me because I was moving about every 13 weeks, so I had multiple taxes paid to several states. It was a freakin' nightmare to figure it all out. But I do know that if you don't do it right, you'll end up paying taxes in the state you work in, and then get taxed in your home state based on your total income including what you earned out of state.

sound like you been on the rip off train too.

Not really. I just didn't realize the complexity of what was entailed in getting these taxes credited to me correctly. I did travel nursing for 2 1/2 years. That meant I'd select a contract from anywhere I wished to work and then live and work in that place for 13 weeks (more if I re-upped). I paid state taxes to whatever state I worked in.

I didn't anticipate how complicated it would be (for me, anyway) to file the taxes correctly. I'm still trying to get it all straightened out (I think I have by now. Lord only knows when the next letter is coming, though).

What happened is (for example) in 2006, I worked all but 13 weeks of the year in VA (I'd accepted contracts out of town but still in VA for the rest). Those 13 weeks were worked in PA. I paid state and local taxes in PA, based upon the total income I made in that state. However, VA calculated my state taxes based upon my reported Federal income for the entire year. So if my total income for the year was $20,000, but $5000 was earned (and taxed) out of state, VA viewed it that I hadn't paid taxes on 1/4 of my income and declared that I owed them money. I filed with PA, and instead of refunding what was owed to me from there, they credit it to my VA tax bill (or something like that---I swear to God my head is swimming again just thinking about it) and supposedly that takes care of things.

Only it didn't.

I received a very nasty letter from the VA state tax critters telling me I still owed over $400 (which I don't) and I was on the verge of a lien. I paid it to protect myself, but still need to get with a tax attorney to hash it all out and get my money back.

As much as I loved the travel job, I wouldn't do it again without going to a tax attorney first and trying to get this straightened out in advance to avoid these headaches again. I know I was ignorant and ignorance of the law is now excuse blah blah blah, but damn it was a convoluted mess.

sounds like a pretty exciting job if the states would just keep their paws out of the till.

 

[Emma]

sound like you been on the rip off train too.

Not really. I just didn't realize the complexity of what was entailed in getting these taxes credited to me correctly. I did travel nursing for 2 1/2 years. That meant I'd select a contract from anywhere I wished to work and then live and work in that place for 13 weeks (more if I re-upped). I paid state taxes to whatever state I worked in.

I didn't anticipate how complicated it would be (for me, anyway) to file the taxes correctly. I'm still trying to get it all straightened out (I think I have by now. Lord only knows when the next letter is coming, though).

What happened is (for example) in 2006, I worked all but 13 weeks of the year in VA (I'd accepted contracts out of town but still in VA for the rest). Those 13 weeks were worked in PA. I paid state and local taxes in PA, based upon the total income I made in that state. However, VA calculated my state taxes based upon my reported Federal income for the entire year. So if my total income for the year was $20,000, but $5000 was earned (and taxed) out of state, VA viewed it that I hadn't paid taxes on 1/4 of my income and declared that I owed them money. I filed with PA, and instead of refunding what was owed to me from there, they credit it to my VA tax bill (or something like that---I swear to God my head is swimming again just thinking about it) and supposedly that takes care of things.

Only it didn't.

I received a very nasty letter from the VA state tax critters telling me I still owed over $400 (which I don't) and I was on the verge of a lien. I paid it to protect myself, but still need to get with a tax attorney to hash it all out and get my money back.

As much as I loved the travel job, I wouldn't do it again without going to a tax attorney first and trying to get this straightened out in advance to avoid these headaches again. I know I was ignorant and ignorance of the law is now excuse blah blah blah, but damn it was a convoluted mess.

sounds like a pretty exciting job if the states would just keep their paws out of the till.

It is an exciting job. I don't mind paying my share of taxes. I DO mind being billed for taxes I know I don't owe. I accept responsibility for screwing it up; tax law and crap like that isn't my strong point. So I should have had sense enough to get help beforehand. I just didn't anticipate it to be this complicated.

 

[Darkwind]

[As far as I know, it has always been that way. It was that way back in the early '80's (last time I as unemployed).

see what i mean shouldn't that have been changed by now.

Well, from what I understand. There is a two week waiting period to see if you get your job back (in case of layoff) or any other chance of call back.

Then you have to wait a week after filing (just like starting a new job, you never get paid the first week you work) and then you get your unemployment check the following week. I don't know that it needs to be changed, but then, as I said. I haven't been unemployed for a while and I guess I'd be impatient too if I needed the cash.

Its a good argument for having at least six months wages in liquid savings just in case you do lose your job.

 

[DiveCon]

Should one wait that long for a check.

Why don't you, instead of waiting for a bailout from the government, go get a job and stop mooching? Do anything. Get a job at fucking McDonalds if you have to.

and this is the guy that sat on his ass while his heat was out bitching to some poor civil servant about how his heat was out and lying to them
when he could have got off his ass and bought an electric heater to use till the buildings heat was repaired

 

[DiveCon]

Now Medicare operates at a loss for a very simple reason. It insures absolutely the worst demographic in the population. The last few years of ones life is when you are going to need the most medical interventions. How to solve the problem? Make Medicare the UHC for the US. Then the whole demographic is covered.

That is a great idea, and would cut 1017 pages out of the bill.

ahem

Bipartisan Initiative To Ensure Medical Equitability

short title: BITE ME

Section I:

All United States citizens are now permitted, regardless of age, to enroll in Medicare. Premiums are listed here. Deal with it.

Medicare premiums and coinsurance rates for 2009

Section II: Private insurance carriers are not allowed to deny coverage due to a pre-existing condition. They may sell a policy to any person, regardless of their state of residence. Coverage is portable, and follows the person covered regardless of change in job or residence.

Section III: People with incomes up to $100,000 will receive tax credits to assist with payment of premiums, on a sliding scale based on family size and income. That will be figured out later. Don't get your shorts in a wad.

Section IV: Neither Medicare nor private insurance carriers are permitted to kill anyone's Grandma.

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

 

[DiveCon]

Now Medicare operates at a loss for a very simple reason. It insures absolutely the worst demographic in the population. The last few years of ones life is when you are going to need the most medical interventions. How to solve the problem? Make Medicare the UHC for the US. Then the whole demographic is covered.

That is a great idea, and would cut 1017 pages out of the bill.

ahem

Bipartisan Initiative To Ensure Medical Equitability

short title: BITE ME

Section I:

All United States citizens are now permitted, regardless of age, to enroll in Medicare. Premiums are listed here. Deal with it.

Medicare premiums and coinsurance rates for 2009

Section II: Private insurance carriers are not allowed to deny coverage due to a pre-existing condition. They may sell a policy to any person, regardless of their state of residence. Coverage is portable, and follows the person covered regardless of change in job or residence.

Section III: People with incomes up to $100,000 will receive tax credits to assist with payment of premiums, on a sliding scale based on family size and income. That will be figured out later. Don't get your shorts in a wad.

Section IV: Neither Medicare nor private insurance carriers are permitted to kill anyone's Grandma.

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

oh, and the only private insurance that would be left is gap coverage
and supplemental coverage

 

[Emma]

Now Medicare operates at a loss for a very simple reason. It insures absolutely the worst demographic in the population. The last few years of ones life is when you are going to need the most medical interventions. How to solve the problem? Make Medicare the UHC for the US. Then the whole demographic is covered.

That is a great idea, and would cut 1017 pages out of the bill.

ahem

Bipartisan Initiative To Ensure Medical Equitability

short title: BITE ME

Section I:

All United States citizens are now permitted, regardless of age, to enroll in Medicare. Premiums are listed here. Deal with it.

Medicare premiums and coinsurance rates for 2009

Section II: Private insurance carriers are not allowed to deny coverage due to a pre-existing condition. They may sell a policy to any person, regardless of their state of residence. Coverage is portable, and follows the person covered regardless of change in job or residence.

Section III: People with incomes up to $100,000 will receive tax credits to assist with payment of premiums, on a sliding scale based on family size and income. That will be figured out later. Don't get your shorts in a wad.

Section IV: Neither Medicare nor private insurance carriers are permitted to kill anyone's Grandma.

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

Medicare provides a significant portion of health care; it hasn't driven the private companies out of business, in fact they're flourishing and making record profits.

The majority of Medicare clients are on the whole, satisfied with their coverage and plans. But their demographic (elderly and disabled) are the ones who use the most in healthcare resources in relation to the rest of the population; they are the ones with the highest proportion of chronic conditions, requiring more intensive treatment and long-term care. By expanding their base of clients to include those who are healthier at their baseline and therefore less likely to make use of more expensive and intensive care, they're going to be taking in more money than they're spending relative to the number of people covered.

IOW, I'm providing for the healthcare of 10 people. They pay me $10 a month in premiums. But they are, as a group, sicker than the average person. So I'm spending all or nearly all of my revenue in providing for their care.

But if I add 90 more people who are younger and healthier on average than those I'm already covering, now I'm taking in ten times as much in revenue, but my expenditures don't increase proportionately.

Cool. I've saved Medicare, made it solvent, reduced the amount of money the government has to provide for it thereby leaving that money in the government coffers to help pay down the deficit. And by providing everyone the ability to have healthcare, I've solved the healthcare crisis and increased the overall health of the citizens of this country. Which means that in the long-term, people will be healthier, meaning they are more productive workers and hence the economy booms.

Healthcare crisis, deficit, economy. All in one fell swoop.



Go me.

 

[DiveCon]

That is a great idea, and would cut 1017 pages out of the bill.

ahem

Bipartisan Initiative To Ensure Medical Equitability

short title: BITE ME

Section I:

All United States citizens are now permitted, regardless of age, to enroll in Medicare. Premiums are listed here. Deal with it.

Medicare premiums and coinsurance rates for 2009

Section II: Private insurance carriers are not allowed to deny coverage due to a pre-existing condition. They may sell a policy to any person, regardless of their state of residence. Coverage is portable, and follows the person covered regardless of change in job or residence.

Section III: People with incomes up to $100,000 will receive tax credits to assist with payment of premiums, on a sliding scale based on family size and income. That will be figured out later. Don't get your shorts in a wad.

Section IV: Neither Medicare nor private insurance carriers are permitted to kill anyone's Grandma.

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

Medicare provides a significant portion of health care; it hasn't driven the private companies out of business, in fact they're flourishing and making record profits.

The majority of Medicare clients are on the whole, satisfied with their coverage and plans. But their demographic (elderly and disabled) are the ones who use the most in healthcare resources in relation to the rest of the population; they are the ones with the highest proportion of chronic conditions, requiring more intensive treatment and long-term care. By expanding their base of clients to include those who are healthier at their baseline and therefore less likely to make use of more expensive and intensive care, they're going to be taking in more money than they're spending relative to the number of people covered.

IOW, I'm providing for the healthcare of 10 people. They pay me $10 a month in premiums. But they are, as a group, sicker than the average person. So I'm spending all or nearly all of my revenue in providing for their care.

But if I add 90 more people who are younger and healthier on average than those I'm already covering, now I'm taking in ten times as much in revenue, but my expenditures don't increase proportionately.

Cool. I've saved Medicare, made it solvent, reduced the amount of money the government has to provide for it thereby leaving that money in the government coffers to help pay down the deficit. And by providing everyone the ability to have healthcare, I've solved the healthcare crisis and increased the overall health of the citizens of this country. Which means that in the long-term, people will be healthier, meaning they are more productive workers and hence the economy booms.

Healthcare crisis, deficit, economy. All in one fell swoop.



Go me.

lol no you havent
the insuance companies are making record profits because the heaviest burned of the cost is paid by medicare
the insurance companies hardly pay anything
medicare would go belly up faster than it is now

 

[DiveCon]

That is a great idea, and would cut 1017 pages out of the bill.

ahem

Bipartisan Initiative To Ensure Medical Equitability

short title: BITE ME

Section I:

All United States citizens are now permitted, regardless of age, to enroll in Medicare. Premiums are listed here. Deal with it.

Medicare premiums and coinsurance rates for 2009

Section II: Private insurance carriers are not allowed to deny coverage due to a pre-existing condition. They may sell a policy to any person, regardless of their state of residence. Coverage is portable, and follows the person covered regardless of change in job or residence.

Section III: People with incomes up to $100,000 will receive tax credits to assist with payment of premiums, on a sliding scale based on family size and income. That will be figured out later. Don't get your shorts in a wad.

Section IV: Neither Medicare nor private insurance carriers are permitted to kill anyone's Grandma.

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

Medicare provides a significant portion of health care; it hasn't driven the private companies out of business, in fact they're flourishing and making record profits.

The majority of Medicare clients are on the whole, satisfied with their coverage and plans. But their demographic (elderly and disabled) are the ones who use the most in healthcare resources in relation to the rest of the population; they are the ones with the highest proportion of chronic conditions, requiring more intensive treatment and long-term care. By expanding their base of clients to include those who are healthier at their baseline and therefore less likely to make use of more expensive and intensive care, they're going to be taking in more money than they're spending relative to the number of people covered.

IOW, I'm providing for the healthcare of 10 people. They pay me $10 a month in premiums. But they are, as a group, sicker than the average person. So I'm spending all or nearly all of my revenue in providing for their care.

But if I add 90 more people who are younger and healthier on average than those I'm already covering, now I'm taking in ten times as much in revenue, but my expenditures don't increase proportionately.

Cool. I've saved Medicare, made it solvent, reduced the amount of money the government has to provide for it thereby leaving that money in the government coffers to help pay down the deficit. And by providing everyone the ability to have healthcare, I've solved the healthcare crisis and increased the overall health of the citizens of this country. Which means that in the long-term, people will be healthier, meaning they are more productive workers and hence the economy booms.

Healthcare crisis, deficit, economy. All in one fell swoop.



Go me.

lol no you havent
the insuance companies are making record profits because the heaviest burned of the cost is paid by medicare
the insurance companies hardly pay anything
medicare would go belly up faster than it is now

 

[Emma]

nice plan, i even like the title
but, the medicare rates are pretty low, why would anyone buy private insurance for much more?
and in that senario, would medicare be able to handle the larger case load?

Medicare provides a significant portion of health care; it hasn't driven the private companies out of business, in fact they're flourishing and making record profits.

The majority of Medicare clients are on the whole, satisfied with their coverage and plans. But their demographic (elderly and disabled) are the ones who use the most in healthcare resources in relation to the rest of the population; they are the ones with the highest proportion of chronic conditions, requiring more intensive treatment and long-term care. By expanding their base of clients to include those who are healthier at their baseline and therefore less likely to make use of more expensive and intensive care, they're going to be taking in more money than they're spending relative to the number of people covered.

IOW, I'm providing for the healthcare of 10 people. They pay me $10 a month in premiums. But they are, as a group, sicker than the average person. So I'm spending all or nearly all of my revenue in providing for their care.

But if I add 90 more people who are younger and healthier on average than those I'm already covering, now I'm taking in ten times as much in revenue, but my expenditures don't increase proportionately.

Cool. I've saved Medicare, made it solvent, reduced the amount of money the government has to provide for it thereby leaving that money in the government coffers to help pay down the deficit. And by providing everyone the ability to have healthcare, I've solved the healthcare crisis and increased the overall health of the citizens of this country. Which means that in the long-term, people will be healthier, meaning they are more productive workers and hence the economy booms.

Healthcare crisis, deficit, economy. All in one fell swoop.



Go me.

lol no you havent
the insuance companies are making record profits because the heaviest burned of the cost is paid by medicare
the insurance companies hardly pay anything
medicare would go belly up faster than it is now

Well, you're so wrong it's stunning. But. Let me ask you this:

If Medicare can provide healthcare coverage for everyone (let's run with your false assumption that everybody gets on board Medicare) and can do so at substantially less cost than private insurance carriers do, what's the problem?

Healthcare spending is a freakin 17.6 % of our GDP.

 

[DiveCon]

Medicare provides a significant portion of health care; it hasn't driven the private companies out of business, in fact they're flourishing and making record profits.

The majority of Medicare clients are on the whole, satisfied with their coverage and plans. But their demographic (elderly and disabled) are the ones who use the most in healthcare resources in relation to the rest of the population; they are the ones with the highest proportion of chronic conditions, requiring more intensive treatment and long-term care. By expanding their base of clients to include those who are healthier at their baseline and therefore less likely to make use of more expensive and intensive care, they're going to be taking in more money than they're spending relative to the number of people covered.

IOW, I'm providing for the healthcare of 10 people. They pay me $10 a month in premiums. But they are, as a group, sicker than the average person. So I'm spending all or nearly all of my revenue in providing for their care.

But if I add 90 more people who are younger and healthier on average than those I'm already covering, now I'm taking in ten times as much in revenue, but my expenditures don't increase proportionately.

Cool. I've saved Medicare, made it solvent, reduced the amount of money the government has to provide for it thereby leaving that money in the government coffers to help pay down the deficit. And by providing everyone the ability to have healthcare, I've solved the healthcare crisis and increased the overall health of the citizens of this country. Which means that in the long-term, people will be healthier, meaning they are more productive workers and hence the economy booms.

Healthcare crisis, deficit, economy. All in one fell swoop.



Go me.

lol no you havent
the insuance companies are making record profits because the heaviest burned of the cost is paid by medicare
the insurance companies hardly pay anything
medicare would go belly up faster than it is now

Well, you're so wrong it's stunning. But. Let me ask you this:

If Medicare can provide healthcare coverage for everyone (let's run with your false assumption that everybody gets on board Medicare) and can do so at substantially less cost than private insurance carriers do, what's the problem?

Healthcare spending is a freakin 17.6 % of our GDP.

ok, now, are you going to charge the people currently paying for it again to use it?
and if you are going to charge them again for it, and the current level is barely enough to cover just seniors and the disabled, how will it be able to pay for the services of all these new people?

 

[Emma]

lol no you havent
the insuance companies are making record profits because the heaviest burned of the cost is paid by medicare
the insurance companies hardly pay anything
medicare would go belly up faster than it is now

Well, you're so wrong it's stunning. But. Let me ask you this:

If Medicare can provide healthcare coverage for everyone (let's run with your false assumption that everybody gets on board Medicare) and can do so at substantially less cost than private insurance carriers do, what's the problem?

Healthcare spending is a freakin 17.6 % of our GDP.

ok, now, are you going to charge the people currently paying for it again to use it?
and if you are going to charge them again for it, and the current level is barely enough to cover just seniors and the disabled, how will it be able to pay for the services of all these new people?

What do you mean 'charge them again'?

 

[DiveCon]

Well, you're so wrong it's stunning. But. Let me ask you this:

If Medicare can provide healthcare coverage for everyone (let's run with your false assumption that everybody gets on board Medicare) and can do so at substantially less cost than private insurance carriers do, what's the problem?

Healthcare spending is a freakin 17.6 % of our GDP.

ok, now, are you going to charge the people currently paying for it again to use it?
and if you are going to charge them again for it, and the current level is barely enough to cover just seniors and the disabled, how will it be able to pay for the services of all these new people?

What do you mean 'charge them again'?

they are already paying for it through payroll deductions, currently its for them to benefit when they retire or become disabled