unemployment compensation: The new welfare?

[iamwhatiseem]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

 

[B. Kidd]

It does serve as an agent of temporary social control.

 

[hortysir]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

It disturbs me that these questions *need* to be asked.

We've created a new sub-minimum wage working class.

 

[william the wie]

This plus leverage for excess consumption was the inspiration for William Jennings Bryant's "Cross of Gold" speech in 1896.

 

[California Girl]

Our legislators can't even read a fucking bill, now you're expecting them to ask questions? How unreasonable! Next, you'll insist they pay taxes! Americans are so demanding!

 

[loosecannon]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

The answer to your question is yes, this is the new welfare. And yes 7-9.8% is the new norm.

The answer to the problem is to reject that standard wisdom that we need to import cheap labor to pay our entitlements and reverse the trend of illegal aliens taking jobs in this nation. There are at least 6 million jobs on the line, enough to offset those lost in the recession and at wages that are better than unemployment.

If we need a cheap labor force tomorrow we will find one. TODAY we need those 6 million jobs for Americans.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

This combines with a lot of concerns I have, as well as pretty much every business owner/manager.
I am not worried about what is happening now. I am worried about what will the new normal be.
"new normal" should be the buzz words of the year. I hear and read that phrase practically everyday.

Seriously, if the "new normal" for unemployment will be 7% say...that will require some serious adjustments.
Another one - wages and compensation.
We are in unknown territories here. There are people everywhere who have not seen any appreciable raise if any at all for 3-4 years. And along with no raises, reduced benefits. Companies getting out of pensions, no longer matching 401ks..mark my words - next will be companies getting out of health insurance.

Now that we are a nation that has finally come to the day to pay the piper for having an economy based on debt - what are we going to base it on now?

 

[william the wie]

This combines with a lot of concerns I have, as well as pretty much every business owner/manager.
I am not worried about what is happening now. I am worried about what will the new normal be.
"new normal" should be the buzz words of the year. I hear and read that phrase practically everyday.

Seriously, if the "new normal" for unemployment will be 7% say...that will require some serious adjustments.
Another one - wages and compensation.
We are in unknown territories here. There are people everywhere who have not seen any appreciable raise if any at all for 3-4 years. And along with no raises, reduced benefits. Companies getting out of pensions, no longer matching 401ks..mark my words - next will be companies getting out of health insurance.

Now that we are a nation that has finally come to the day to pay the piper for having an economy based on debt - what are we going to base it on now?

Actual labor I hope.

 

[Revere]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

It disturbs me that these questions *need* to be asked.

We've created a new sub-minimum wage working class.

Not a "wage" since you don't work to collect uneployment compensation.

 

[Annie]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

Just how long can one stay on unemployment and think anyone will ever hire them? 3 months is a long time to explain why one chooses to keep unemployment when one could make more even when vastly underemployed. There comes a point where it's the person's self-reliance that is called into question and also self-respect.

Sitting at home and wishing one had 'more than unemployment' just doesn't cut it.

 

[Mini 14]

Another one - wages and compensation.
We are in unknown territories here. There are people everywhere who have not seen any appreciable raise if any at all for 3-4 years. And along with no raises, reduced benefits. Companies getting out of pensions, no longer matching 401ks..mark my words - next will be companies getting out of health insurance.

Already happening. The incentive for companies not required to offer insurance under Obamacare doesn't even come close to the costs offering insurance will bring. I estimate that upwards of 90% of the businesses not required to offer healthcare under the new regulations will NOT. I dropped mine for my company this year, and will split into two or more companies if/when we begin to approach the employment requirements that will make us applicable to Obamacare.

And that sector of small business employs well over 70% of all Americans.

 

[Trajan]

at this rate it is welfare. except that employers are being asked to pony up more in UC rate hikes to at least add some more money to the state coffers to help the fed dollars pay out the UC. Most states have exhausted their UC funds.

they are 'borrowing" UC funds to fill out their portion for the feds....like they are gonna get it back?California right now is on the hook in sept. 11 for a 400 million dollar payment to the Fed. for UC borrowed over the last year... it all feeds into and out of the same trough...and we are pushing a new envelope for sure...answer? beats me. The dutch boy doesn't have enough fingers to put in all the holes this Dam is busting.

 

[Trajan]

Suspend the debate a moment and just consider unemployment compensation as it is being paid now, and what it likely will do.
99 weeks is almost two full years. If it is extended another 13 months...we are now at 3 years and running.
Again, suspending the debate over whether it should or should not be extended, where do we go from there?

We are at 9.8%...which in reality is likely around 15%.
What can be expected when the economy returns?
Absolutely in NO way will we see it go back to 4-5% anytime in the near future, doubtful in this new decade.
Companies everywhere, including my own, have found ways to be more efficient and to operate with less of everything - not just people.
So when things return - you think business owners are simply going to announce "hey - let's go back to being innefficient and start buying those supplies we don't really need now that we are doing better"?
Um...no.

So even when things get better, as they have been for 4 straight months, employment will not follow. Many, many of these people will not be rehired.
Simply shutting off the compensation to millions of people would be a disaster to the economy. Disaster.
So what do we do?
How long can it go on?
What is the "new normal" for unemployment levels? 7-8%?
How do we deal with that?

It disturbs me that these questions are not being asked.

Just how long can one stay on unemployment and think anyone will ever hire them? 3 months is a long time to explain why one chooses to keep unemployment when one could make more even when vastly underemployed. There comes a point where it's the person's self-reliance that is called into question and also self-respect.

Sitting at home and wishing one had 'more than unemployment' just doesn't cut it.

my daughter has been working a 20 hour a week shitty retail job for a year ( its basically all she has been able to get and thats as many hours they will give her), so she can keep funds in her UC apportionment account if that goes belly up before she can get a full time job. I have a feeling shes gonna need it.

 

[Annie]

at this rate it is welfare. except that employers are being asked to pony up more in UC rate hikes to at least add some more money to the state coffers to help the fed dollars pay out the UC. Most states have exhausted their UC funds.

they are 'borrowing" UC funds to fill out their portion for the feds....like they are gonna get it back?California right now is on the hook in sept. 11 for a 400 million dollar payment to the Fed. for UC borrowed over the last year... it all feeds into and out of the same trough...and we are pushing a new envelope for sure...answer? beats me. The dutch boy doesn't have enough fingers to put in all the holes this Dam is busting.

Unemployment Insurance Premiums On Rise In Colo. - cbs4denver.com

Dec 1, 2010 9:56 pm US/Mountain
Unemployment Insurance Premiums On Rise In Colo.

DENVER (CBS4) ―

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A worker at the unemployment office

CBS

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Many small businesses in Colorado are getting a shock in the mail that could bring higher prices for consumers. More than 116,000 businesses in Colorado will see big increases in their unemployment insurance premiums in 2011.

The Labor Department said they can blame the sluggish economy and an outdated system that determines premiums. Some companies are having to pay higher unemployment insurance to the state even though they've been hiring.

Burt Hedke and his wife own a car reconditioning company. He was shocked how much his unemployment insurance would be going up.

"The rate went up 475 percent from the rate it was in 2010," said Hedke. "Knowing all the various taxes we have to pay as business owners and consumers my initial reaction is you gotta be kidding me."

The reason for the big hike is no money left in Colorado's Unemployment Insurance Trust Fund.

The trust is used to pay for the first 26 weeks of unemployment benefits to people who are out of work.

In mid-2009, there was $350 million in the account, but the money was used quickly and now the state is borrowing to make ends meet.

"It's really caused by so many people being unemployed and us having to pay benefits," said Executive Director of the Colo. Dept. of Labor Don Mares.

Healthy businesses have to share the burden in 2011, that's when more than 80 percent of businesses in Colorado will see a jump in unemployment insurance.

Companies with a decrease or no change in its premiums have already reached the maximum they can be charged.

"These laws have been in effect for 20 years and this is the first time we've seen them in play in a deficit situation and it's clear they're out of whack," said Mares.

The Dept. of Labor is working on reforming the way premiums are assessed, but can't until the next legislative session.

Colorado is one of 31 states borrowing money to pay unemployment benefits.

 

[Trajan]

at this rate it is welfare. except that employers are being asked to pony up more in UC rate hikes to at least add some more money to the state coffers to help the fed dollars pay out the UC. Most states have exhausted their UC funds.

they are 'borrowing" UC funds to fill out their portion for the feds....like they are gonna get it back?California right now is on the hook in sept. 11 for a 400 million dollar payment to the Fed. for UC borrowed over the last year... it all feeds into and out of the same trough...and we are pushing a new envelope for sure...answer? beats me. The dutch boy doesn't have enough fingers to put in all the holes this Dam is busting.

Unemployment Insurance Premiums On Rise In Colo. - cbs4denver.com

Dec 1, 2010 9:56 pm US/Mountain
Unemployment Insurance Premiums On Rise In Colo.

DENVER (CBS4) ―

[Click to zoom.] Click to enlarge
1 of 1
A worker at the unemployment office

CBS

Close

numSlides of totalImages
Many small businesses in Colorado are getting a shock in the mail that could bring higher prices for consumers. More than 116,000 businesses in Colorado will see big increases in their unemployment insurance premiums in 2011.

The Labor Department said they can blame the sluggish economy and an outdated system that determines premiums. Some companies are having to pay higher unemployment insurance to the state even though they've been hiring.

Burt Hedke and his wife own a car reconditioning company. He was shocked how much his unemployment insurance would be going up.

"The rate went up 475 percent from the rate it was in 2010," said Hedke. "Knowing all the various taxes we have to pay as business owners and consumers my initial reaction is you gotta be kidding me."

The reason for the big hike is no money left in Colorado's Unemployment Insurance Trust Fund.

The trust is used to pay for the first 26 weeks of unemployment benefits to people who are out of work.

In mid-2009, there was $350 million in the account, but the money was used quickly and now the state is borrowing to make ends meet.

"It's really caused by so many people being unemployed and us having to pay benefits," said Executive Director of the Colo. Dept. of Labor Don Mares.

Healthy businesses have to share the burden in 2011, that's when more than 80 percent of businesses in Colorado will see a jump in unemployment insurance.

Companies with a decrease or no change in its premiums have already reached the maximum they can be charged.

"These laws have been in effect for 20 years and this is the first time we've seen them in play in a deficit situation and it's clear they're out of whack," said Mares.

The Dept. of Labor is working on reforming the way premiums are assessed, but can't until the next legislative session.

Colorado is one of 31 states borrowing money to pay unemployment benefits.

"The rate went up 475 percent from the rate it was in 2010,

holy smokes....

 

[uscitizen]

Had the unemployment ins rate been dropper prior to 2010?
I know KY did that under a Republican Governor.
I think we need more information.

However one thing is true, we as a nation ahve learned nothing from this yet and just keep hoping it will go away if we avoid doing much long enough.

Guess? This is likely to be as good as it will be for several years.

 

[loosecannon]

This combines with a lot of concerns I have, as well as pretty much every business owner/manager.
I am not worried about what is happening now. I am worried about what will the new normal be.
"new normal" should be the buzz words of the year. I hear and read that phrase practically everyday.

Seriously, if the "new normal" for unemployment will be 7% say...that will require some serious adjustments.
Another one - wages and compensation.
We are in unknown territories here. There are people everywhere who have not seen any appreciable raise if any at all for 3-4 years. And along with no raises, reduced benefits. Companies getting out of pensions, no longer matching 401ks..mark my words - next will be companies getting out of health insurance.

Now that we are a nation that has finally come to the day to pay the piper for having an economy based on debt - what are we going to base it on now?

Companies are already getting out of health insurance as much as they can get away with. It costs too damned much and there is no control over those costs except to defer them toward the employee or to reduce coverage.

As per the new normal, this has been predicted for at least 4 years, probably 14 if you shop around looking. Globalization demands global wage parity more or less.

Recessions have been the windows thru which we make adjustments toward world living standards parity for 10 years. Now that we are in a kind of permanent recession wage migration toward global parity is a full time event.

This shouldn't be a surprise. What surprises me is that our leaders are either doing jack shit about it or worse yet encouraging it. And worse yet paying Americans to vote for them. And stupid Americans won't do shit as long as the politicos keep bribing them for their votes.

 

[loosecannon]

"The rate went up 475 percent from the rate it was in 2010,

holy smokes....

But that makes sense, the insurance is covering a term 6 times as long as it was before the extensions began.

 

[william the wie]

Had the unemployment ins rate been dropper prior to 2010?
I know KY did that under a Republican Governor.
I think we need more information.

However one thing is true, we as a nation ahve learned nothing from this yet and just keep hoping it will go away if we avoid doing much long enough.

Guess? This is likely to be as good as it will be for several years.

I disagree we have learned a lot

Use temps and contract employees to avoid healthcare and UC.

When the above is not feasible cut hours, subdivide businesses and pursue other loopholes.

Other loopholes include relocation to lower tax states with lighter UC loads.

What is being ignored by the MSM is that those strategies are being pursued vigorously.

 

[loosecannon]

Had the unemployment ins rate been dropper prior to 2010?
I know KY did that under a Republican Governor.
I think we need more information.

However one thing is true, we as a nation ahve learned nothing from this yet and just keep hoping it will go away if we avoid doing much long enough.

Guess? This is likely to be as good as it will be for several years.

I disagree we have learned a lot

Use temps and contract employees to avoid healthcare and UC.

When the above is not feasible cut hours, subdivide businesses and pursue other loopholes.

Other loopholes include relocation to lower tax states with lighter UC loads.

What is being ignored by the MSM is that those strategies are being pursued vigorously.

So is bankrupt the states with federally mandated extensions.