Understanding the Mentality and World View of the Christian Fundamentalist

What are your thoughtd on the anti Christ and Armageddon and or the rapture and what's the difference?

Let me just quickly address the rapture concept to illustrate my point. The Rapture would be the shortest explanation of the three you ask about. This is as brief as I can get and I am leaving a TON out. The Bible doesn't speak of a rapture the way it is traditionally viewed. The traditional view is that prior to the end of times, the faithful will ascend to heaven and be spared the ravages and catastrophes that God will inflict upon the Earth when the Son of Man comes who will defeat evil and establish the Kingdom of God on Earth. The problem is that there is no account in the Bible that says that. That traditional view is the result of the predictions of Jesus, Paul, and Revelation being jammed together to make one story.

Jesus predicted that the Son of Man would come and would bring judgement upon the Earth and usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth. But there was no predictions of world-wide disasters or wars or anything of that nature. In fact, according to Mark, it had already been accomplished by the mere presence of Jesus. There was no mass ascension of the faithful to heaven. So for Jesus, God's kingdom would be on Earth, the future of the faithful was on Earth, but there would be no mass ascension or world-wide disasters.

Paul predicted a mass ascension of the faithful (living and dead) to heaven before God punished the wicked on Earth. BUT, man's future was in heaven and not on Earth. For Paul, once the faithful ascended to heaven, the Earth became an afterthought and everyone would live in harmony with God in heaven. So according to Paul, there would be a mass ascension, there would be punishment on Earth for the wicked, but God's kingdom and the future of the faithful was in heaven and not on Earth.

Revelation predicts that there will be disasters and wars, God's kingdom will come to Earth in the form of new Jerusalem, but contrary to popular belief it does not predict a mass ascension. There is the suggestion of a limited ascension of 144,000 (and that's a LONG story), but not the mass ascension that Paul predicted. In Revelation, man's future is on Earth and not in heaven.

So what the church did was to take the Son of Man and judgement from Jesus, God's kingdom on Earth from Jesus and Revelation, the mass ascension from Paul, and the wars and devastation from Revelation and crammed them all together to create the concept of the Rapture. Unfortunately, none of those three sources describe it in the traditional way that we think of it today. Therefore, the traditional account of the Rapture is merely an attempt by the church to iron out contradictions between those sources by crushing them all together and creating their own story. In short, scripture does not support the traditional concept of a Rapture. This is very common, unfortunately, when distinguishing between religious dogma and actual scripture.
Does the 144,000 have something to do with jehova witnesses?
 
What are your thoughtd on the anti Christ and Armageddon and or the rapture and what's the difference?

Let me just quickly address the rapture concept to illustrate my point. The Rapture would be the shortest explanation of the three you ask about. This is as brief as I can get and I am leaving a TON out. The Bible doesn't speak of a rapture the way it is traditionally viewed. The traditional view is that prior to the end of times, the faithful will ascend to heaven and be spared the ravages and catastrophes that God will inflict upon the Earth when the Son of Man comes who will defeat evil and establish the Kingdom of God on Earth. The problem is that there is no account in the Bible that says that. That traditional view is the result of the predictions of Jesus, Paul, and Revelation being jammed together to make one story.

Jesus predicted that the Son of Man would come and would bring judgement upon the Earth and usher in the Kingdom of God on Earth. But there was no predictions of world-wide disasters or wars or anything of that nature. In fact, according to Mark, it had already been accomplished by the mere presence of Jesus. There was no mass ascension of the faithful to heaven. So for Jesus, God's kingdom would be on Earth, the future of the faithful was on Earth, but there would be no mass ascension or world-wide disasters.

Paul predicted a mass ascension of the faithful (living and dead) to heaven before God punished the wicked on Earth. BUT, man's future was in heaven and not on Earth. For Paul, once the faithful ascended to heaven, the Earth became an afterthought and everyone would live in harmony with God in heaven. So according to Paul, there would be a mass ascension, there would be punishment on Earth for the wicked, but God's kingdom and the future of the faithful was in heaven and not on Earth.

Revelation predicts that there will be disasters and wars, God's kingdom will come to Earth in the form of new Jerusalem, but contrary to popular belief it does not predict a mass ascension. There is the suggestion of a limited ascension of 144,000 (and that's a LONG story), but not the mass ascension that Paul predicted. In Revelation, man's future is on Earth and not in heaven.

So what the church did was to take the Son of Man and judgement from Jesus, God's kingdom on Earth from Jesus and Revelation, the mass ascension from Paul, and the wars and devastation from Revelation and crammed them all together to create the concept of the Rapture. Unfortunately, none of those three sources describe it in the traditional way that we think of it today. Therefore, the traditional account of the Rapture is merely an attempt by the church to iron out contradictions between those sources by crushing them all together and creating their own story. In short, scripture does not support the traditional concept of a Rapture. This is very common, unfortunately, when distinguishing between religious dogma and actual scripture.
Does the 144,000 have something to do with jehova witnesses?


The Jehovah's Witness grabbed onto that 144,00. It's really complicated and would take a long time to explain where that number came from. The short, short version is 12,000 people from each of the 12 tribes of Israel, but why there is 12,000 is another long story. Anyhow...the Jehovah's Witnesses are literal, futuristic interpreters of Revelation. That sect was born of the Great Disappointment of 1844 when William Miller predicted the end had come. Thousands of people gave away everything they had, quit their jobs, told their friends and spouses what they really thought of them, etc and waited for October 22 when the big event would take place. Unfortunately for them, it never happened and they all had to go back and apologize to their spouses and ask for their job and all their shit back. :lol:

But a small portion was convinced that the end was imminent, Miller had just miscalculated the date and so they have been waiting day by day ever since. And I literally mean, day by day they wake up and expect 'today to be the day'. They are the Jehovah's Witnesses and they are based almost completely on Revelation. They believe there will only be 144,000 saved (all of which will be Jehovah's Witnesses) because they take a literal interpretation of Revelation 7:4 and Revelation 14:1-5. This is not at all what the author meant, of course. He was using a literary convention to refer to Israel and not meaning specifically 144,000, but try telling them that.
 
Very simple. Buy a Bible. Everyone who followed Jesus Christ was a Christian fundamentalist. If you're not a fundamentalist? You're not a follower of Jesus Christ.

And if you hate Christian fundamentalists? You are an enemy of Jesus Christ.
???....you don't actually understand what "fundamentalist" actually means then?.....

the term wasn't widely used until the 20's and 30's.....it was one of five major divisions of the protestant church; Evangelicals, Princeton theology (most commonly referred to as Reformed theology today), Dispensational, Fundamentalists, and the Modern or Liberal churches.......

there was no such thing as "fundamentalism" in the first century of the church......

Christian fundamentalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

unfortunately over the last twenty years lazy liberals have failed to distinguish between fundamentalists and evangelicals and use the terms interchangeably to mean "any Christians we don't like".......

buying a Bible will do you no good for understanding the difference, as neither word is in the Bible.....

Fundamentalists believed the Bible is inerrant and literal........the Princeton/Reformed believe it to be infallible, not inerrant........Evangelicals believed what was important was the method of communication with unbelievers (the Methodists were the first evangelical church)......dispensationalism spends its time deciding how to interpret the book of Revelation.......liberal churches devoted themselves mostly to avoiding what the Bible said anywhere.....
 
I think one of the things that pissed me off about that movie was the political suggestions. For example, Noah was a vegetarian and would hurt no animals. Pfft....read the fucking Bible. The very first thing he did after getting off the ark was to perform a ritual of sacrifice where an animal was slaughtered, the fat was burnt as an offering to God, and they ate the rest. Vegetarian...give me a fucking break.

Or the idea that humans were a pox on the planet and Noah was convinced that humanity must die to save the planet. What total horseshit. Noah was instructed to bring both his sons and both his sons' wives in order to repopulate the human species. Just a terrible depiction of the Biblical account that was so political it made me sick.

OH! OH! And all the people getting pissed off that there were no black people in the movie. HELLO!!! It was before the Tower of Babel account idiots! Different races had not been established yet. According to scripture there was only one race and language at the time. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a bunch of different races if God hadn't created different races yet, huh? At least they got that right.

Now where Noah got his Australian accent is a bit of a puzzle. :lol:

See now you have me ranting. :lol:
I would have assumed Noah's 3 sons had a black wife asian and white
lol....
 
Does the 144,000 have something to do with jehova witnesses?

Here is something about the 144,00 you probably didn't know though. The New Orleans Saints got their name from Revelation. They were named for All Saints Day and the song When the Saints Go Marching In. Listen to the words of that song



The "saints" are the believers in God. "That number" is the 144,000.

"I want to be in that number when the Saints go marching in" means "I want to be part of the 144,000 when the Rapture comes and the faithful ascend to heaven".

other verses talk of the sun refusing to shine, the moon turning to blood, the trumpets sounding the call, the rich becoming poor, the leaders being in agony....these are all references to predictions in Revelation.
 
I think one of the things that pissed me off about that movie was the political suggestions. For example, Noah was a vegetarian and would hurt no animals. Pfft....read the fucking Bible. The very first thing he did after getting off the ark was to perform a ritual of sacrifice where an animal was slaughtered, the fat was burnt as an offering to God, and they ate the rest. Vegetarian...give me a fucking break.

Or the idea that humans were a pox on the planet and Noah was convinced that humanity must die to save the planet. What total horseshit. Noah was instructed to bring both his sons and both his sons' wives in order to repopulate the human species. Just a terrible depiction of the Biblical account that was so political it made me sick.

OH! OH! And all the people getting pissed off that there were no black people in the movie. HELLO!!! It was before the Tower of Babel account idiots! Different races had not been established yet. According to scripture there was only one race and language at the time. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a bunch of different races if God hadn't created different races yet, huh? At least they got that right.

Now where Noah got his Australian accent is a bit of a puzzle. :lol:

See now you have me ranting. :lol:
I would have assumed Noah's 3 sons had a black wife asian and white
lol....
On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.
 
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On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.

I am about to crash out. I hear you. I grew up in Northern Idaho. Lots of great outdoors stuff there. I go back frequently to take advantage of the outdoors. Gorgeous country but it has gotten almost too dangerous to go into now. When they reintroduced the wolves they took so well that they wiped out the deer and elk herds. Those herds are at about 10% of what they were before so the area is overrun with wolves and mountain lions now. Wolves aren't that big of a deal usually except they are out of food and so they are killing just about anything...cows, sheep, and suddenly humans are on the food chain.

The mountain lions...well they are cats. They hunt for sport. If you walk into their territory they will attack. Just like a house cat seeing a bird in the back yard. It doesn't need the food but it's instinct is "something is there...kill it". It locks its attention on and that's all it thinks about. Mountain lions are the same but they hunt from the trees and weigh about 120 pounds. So imagine yourself walking through the forest on a nice leisurely hike and someone drop two 50 pound bags of cement on your shoulders from 30 feet above. Then it goes straight for your neck. Basically, you have about 10 seconds to recover from the impact and kill the animal before you are dead. Good luck. :lol: I don't know why the mountain lions are surging though. They should be dropping off with the way the wolves have decimated the elk and deer herd but for some reason their population has exploded.

At least the grizzly bears have remained constant. :lol: It's really a shame though. It used to be such great country to go fishing, camping, hiking..people learned a respect and love for nature because of it and now you just can't do that anymore because you are putting your life on the line. And you can't just bring a gun and shoot them because they are protected so if you kill one it's a HUGE fine and massive legal problems. It's ridiculous actually
 
Does the 144,000 have something to do with jehova witnesses?

Here is something about the 144,00 you probably didn't know though. The New Orleans Saints got their name from Revelation. They were named for All Saints Day and the song When the Saints Go Marching In. Listen to the words of that song



The "saints" are the believers in God. "That number" is the 144,000.

"I want to be in that number when the Saints go marching in" means "I want to be part of the 144,000 when the Rapture comes and the faithful ascend to heaven".

other verses talk of the sun refusing to shine, the moon turning to blood, the trumpets sounding the call, the rich becoming poor, the leaders being in agony....these are all references to predictions in Revelation.

What I want and what I believe are two different things. And what you want and what is true might not be one and the same. Cause oh lord I want to be in that number too.
 
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On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.

I am about to crash out. I hear you. I grew up in Northern Idaho. Lots of great outdoors stuff there. I go back frequently to take advantage of the outdoors. Gorgeous country but it has gotten almost too dangerous to go into now. When they reintroduced the wolves they took so well that they wiped out the deer and elk herds. Those herds are at about 10% of what they were before so the area is overrun with wolves and mountain lions now. Wolves aren't that big of a deal usually except they are out of food and so they are killing just about anything...cows, sheep, and suddenly humans are on the food chain.

The mountain lions...well they are cats. They hunt for sport. If you walk into their territory they will attack. Just like a house cat seeing a bird in the back yard. It doesn't need the food but it's instinct is "something is there...kill it". It locks its attention on and that's all it thinks about. Mountain lions are the same but they hunt from the trees and weigh about 120 pounds. So imagine yourself walking through the forest on a nice leisurely hike and someone drop two 50 pound bags of cement on your shoulders from 30 feet above. Then it goes straight for your neck. Basically, you have about 10 seconds to recover from the impact and kill the animal before you are dead. Good luck. :lol: I don't know why the mountain lions are surging though. They should be dropping off with the way the wolves have decimated the elk and deer herd but for some reason their population has exploded.

At least the grizzly bears have remained constant. :lol: It's really a shame though. It used to be such great country to go fishing, camping, hiking..people learned a respect and love for nature because of it and now you just can't do that anymore because you are putting your life on the line. And you can't just bring a gun and shoot them because they are protected so if you kill one it's a HUGE fine and massive legal problems. It's ridiculous actually
That's the way it should be. I love it! Humans stay out or enter at your own risk. Same for sharks.

It sounds beautiful.
 
Think about how much more gullible uneducated superstitious primitive naive we were 500 years ago. Now imagine 500 years from now. Will the modern day religions still be around? Will we have a christian vs Muslim holy war? Aren't we sort of in one now?

I wish we could hit the reset button. Why do we have to follow Jesus mohammad moses or Joseph smith?

Well the Muslims and Jews have been fighting for thousands of years because of the problem between Ishmael and Isaac. That was somewhere around 2,000 BCE or thereabouts, if it ever happened at all, and they have been fighting ever since. So I don't think it is going to end any time soon. :lol: It's been 4,000 years and they are still going strong.

You realize that's what the fighting is all about, right....Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac?
I have heard the story before but would love to hear it again.


Well the short version is that God promised Abraham that he and his wife would have a son and his son would be the father of kings and his line would be given the Holy Land. But Abraham's wife, Sarah, was an old woman past child-bearing years. So Abraham and Sarah thought it impossible for them to have a child and for years they didn't. Finally, Sarah convinced Abraham to force a child by sleeping with her servant, Hagar. Hagar bore a son, named Ishmael. Now according to ancient law, Ishmael would have been considered Sarah's legal son despite the fact that he was born of Hagar.

Then, Sarah got pregnant by Abraham and gave birth to Isaac. So now we have a big problem. Who is the son God spoke of? Ishmael, the first legal son of Abraham and Sarah, or Isaac, the first biological son of Abraham and Sarah? Well the descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs and Persians and they eventually became the Muslims, after Muhammad came along and organized them into a structured religion. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews. So the fighting is about which line was the one God talked about and was promised the Holy Land. Muslims argue it was the line of Ishmael because he was Abraham and Sarah's first legal son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them. Jews argue it was the line of Isaac because he was Abraham and Sarah's first biological son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them.

Christians side with the Jews because Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is considered another offshoot of Judaism because they share the same traditional history right up Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac and at that point they begin to diverge.

They have been killing each other over it for 4,000 years...I don't see it stopping any time soon. But...yeah...believe it or not...that's what the fighting is all about.

Kids squabbling over who is daddy's favorite? :eek:

Grow up already, you are both living in the "holy land" so WTF?
 
[
On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.

I am about to crash out. I hear you. I grew up in Northern Idaho. Lots of great outdoors stuff there. I go back frequently to take advantage of the outdoors. Gorgeous country but it has gotten almost too dangerous to go into now. When they reintroduced the wolves they took so well that they wiped out the deer and elk herds. Those herds are at about 10% of what they were before so the area is overrun with wolves and mountain lions now. Wolves aren't that big of a deal usually except they are out of food and so they are killing just about anything...cows, sheep, and suddenly humans are on the food chain.

The mountain lions...well they are cats. They hunt for sport. If you walk into their territory they will attack. Just like a house cat seeing a bird in the back yard. It doesn't need the food but it's instinct is "something is there...kill it". It locks its attention on and that's all it thinks about. Mountain lions are the same but they hunt from the trees and weigh about 120 pounds. So imagine yourself walking through the forest on a nice leisurely hike and someone drop two 50 pound bags of cement on your shoulders from 30 feet above. Then it goes straight for your neck. Basically, you have about 10 seconds to recover from the impact and kill the animal before you are dead. Good luck. :lol: I don't know why the mountain lions are surging though. They should be dropping off with the way the wolves have decimated the elk and deer herd but for some reason their population has exploded.

At least the grizzly bears have remained constant. :lol: It's really a shame though. It used to be such great country to go fishing, camping, hiking..people learned a respect and love for nature because of it and now you just can't do that anymore because you are putting your life on the line. And you can't just bring a gun and shoot them because they are protected so if you kill one it's a HUGE fine and massive legal problems. It's ridiculous actually
That's the way it should be. I love it! Humans stay out or enter at your own risk. Same for sharks.

It sounds beautiful.


No I don't think you quite understand. :lol: The wolves have completely overrun the area. Yeah the wolves are safe but the elk and deer are suddenly endangered. There used to be elk herds of 5,000 or more and now a big herd is 300-400. They are fucking wiped out. Great we saved the wolves but we just killed off the elk and the deer. The wolves are so hungry they are terrorizing farms and small towns. Ranchers are seeing their herds get demolished and it is no longer unusual for a pack to enter a rural town scavenging for what they can get. I don't know if you have ever seen a wolf in person, but it's not just a "big dog". It's a fucking massive killer. Some people say "I think I saw a wolf but it may have been a large hairy dog"...NO! :lol: When you see a wolf, there is no doubt what the fuck it is and it is not a nice animal.

As a northwesterner it really pisses me off. I am all for preserving the wolves too but this is a situation that is beyond preservation and I hear assholes from New York and Miami who have never experienced such animals try to lecture me about preserving nature....yeah...go out in the woods with those wolves and mountain lions and grizzly bears and see if your opinion is the same when you come back...IF you come back. Pretty convenient for a New Yorker to lecture me about preserving the wolves when they don't have to live with them in their back yard
 
Where did Aryans Greeks Mexicans asians come from? I heard that story before and thought that was the one you were going to tell. This guy who believes in ancient aliens told me how all the races came to be.

Well the Biblical story for that would be the Tower of Babel. There are a lot of other stories from ancient mythology according to different cultures. The quick story of the Tower of Babel is that at one time all of mankind looked the same and spoke the same language. Man got rich, powerful, and arrogant and tried to build a tower to the skies in order to be equal with God. God punished them for their arrogance by destroying the tower, and making it so that they all spoke different languages. By doing so they could not understand each other enough to coordinate and make such an effort again. Then he scattered them around the world where they evolved according to their surroundings. It's almost certainly mythology, of course. I don't believe for a second that actually happened, but that's the tale.

Haven't thought of that story in a very long time and yes, it is a fable to explain why people in different areas speak different languages.

Interesting how we now have international air travel and the internet. The modern equivalent of the tower of babel and yet they work just fine with people speaking different languages.
 
I think one of the things that pissed me off about that movie was the political suggestions. For example, Noah was a vegetarian and would hurt no animals. Pfft....read the fucking Bible. The very first thing he did after getting off the ark was to perform a ritual of sacrifice where an animal was slaughtered, the fat was burnt as an offering to God, and they ate the rest. Vegetarian...give me a fucking break.

Or the idea that humans were a pox on the planet and Noah was convinced that humanity must die to save the planet. What total horseshit. Noah was instructed to bring both his sons and both his sons' wives in order to repopulate the human species. Just a terrible depiction of the Biblical account that was so political it made me sick.

OH! OH! And all the people getting pissed off that there were no black people in the movie. HELLO!!! It was before the Tower of Babel account idiots! Different races had not been established yet. According to scripture there was only one race and language at the time. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a bunch of different races if God hadn't created different races yet, huh? At least they got that right.

Now where Noah got his Australian accent is a bit of a puzzle. :lol:

See now you have me ranting. :lol:

Noah had an Aussie accent but no kangaroos on the ark? ;)
 
Think about how much more gullible uneducated superstitious primitive naive we were 500 years ago. Now imagine 500 years from now. Will the modern day religions still be around? Will we have a christian vs Muslim holy war? Aren't we sort of in one now?

I wish we could hit the reset button. Why do we have to follow Jesus mohammad moses or Joseph smith?

Well the Muslims and Jews have been fighting for thousands of years because of the problem between Ishmael and Isaac. That was somewhere around 2,000 BCE or thereabouts, if it ever happened at all, and they have been fighting ever since. So I don't think it is going to end any time soon. :lol: It's been 4,000 years and they are still going strong.

You realize that's what the fighting is all about, right....Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac?
I have heard the story before but would love to hear it again.


Well the short version is that God promised Abraham that he and his wife would have a son and his son would be the father of kings and his line would be given the Holy Land. But Abraham's wife, Sarah, was an old woman past child-bearing years. So Abraham and Sarah thought it impossible for them to have a child and for years they didn't. Finally, Sarah convinced Abraham to force a child by sleeping with her servant, Hagar. Hagar bore a son, named Ishmael. Now according to ancient law, Ishmael would have been considered Sarah's legal son despite the fact that he was born of Hagar.

Then, Sarah got pregnant by Abraham and gave birth to Isaac. So now we have a big problem. Who is the son God spoke of? Ishmael, the first legal son of Abraham and Sarah, or Isaac, the first biological son of Abraham and Sarah? Well the descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs and Persians and they eventually became the Muslims, after Muhammad came along and organized them into a structured religion. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews. So the fighting is about which line was the one God talked about and was promised the Holy Land. Muslims argue it was the line of Ishmael because he was Abraham and Sarah's first legal son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them. Jews argue it was the line of Isaac because he was Abraham and Sarah's first biological son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them.

Christians side with the Jews because Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is considered another offshoot of Judaism because they share the same traditional history right up Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac and at that point they begin to diverge.

They have been killing each other over it for 4,000 years...I don't see it stopping any time soon. But...yeah...believe it or not...that's what the fighting is all about.

Kids squabbling over who is daddy's favorite? :eek:

Grow up already, you are both living in the "holy land" so WTF?


What astonishes me is that it's a fucking desert. It's a wasteland. There is nothing there. It's not like they are fighting over the Bahamas or St. Thomas. They are fighting over sand
 
What are your thoughtd on the anti Christ and Armageddon and or the rapture and what's the difference?

Pfft...that is a thread unto itself. Seriously, there is no way to give a brief summary of those topics. I actually started two threads that dealt specifically with them. They were not well received. They got derailed by literalists and Christian extremists who were far more interested in attacking the messenger instead of the message and pounding a traditional futuristic (bullshit) interpretation instead of looking at it from a scholarly perspective. Eventually, I gave up just as I was starting to explore the text of Revelation, because it became pointless.

You can check it out if you wish. Lots of reading, but it breaks it down pretty thoroughly...between the fundamentalist howler monkeys throwing waves of excrement at me for being a heretic. :lol: I will say though, that of all the books in the Bible, Revelation is the one on which I am by far the most educated and knowledgeable about. If you want to narrow down your questions I can give a better answer.

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If you want to avoid the rabble use the CDZ or the SDF to keep them out. The mods will remove all of the off topic flames when they are reported.
 
Think about how much more gullible uneducated superstitious primitive naive we were 500 years ago. Now imagine 500 years from now. Will the modern day religions still be around? Will we have a christian vs Muslim holy war? Aren't we sort of in one now?

I wish we could hit the reset button. Why do we have to follow Jesus mohammad moses or Joseph smith?

Well the Muslims and Jews have been fighting for thousands of years because of the problem between Ishmael and Isaac. That was somewhere around 2,000 BCE or thereabouts, if it ever happened at all, and they have been fighting ever since. So I don't think it is going to end any time soon. :lol: It's been 4,000 years and they are still going strong.

You realize that's what the fighting is all about, right....Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac?
I have heard the story before but would love to hear it again.


Well the short version is that God promised Abraham that he and his wife would have a son and his son would be the father of kings and his line would be given the Holy Land. But Abraham's wife, Sarah, was an old woman past child-bearing years. So Abraham and Sarah thought it impossible for them to have a child and for years they didn't. Finally, Sarah convinced Abraham to force a child by sleeping with her servant, Hagar. Hagar bore a son, named Ishmael. Now according to ancient law, Ishmael would have been considered Sarah's legal son despite the fact that he was born of Hagar.

Then, Sarah got pregnant by Abraham and gave birth to Isaac. So now we have a big problem. Who is the son God spoke of? Ishmael, the first legal son of Abraham and Sarah, or Isaac, the first biological son of Abraham and Sarah? Well the descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs and Persians and they eventually became the Muslims, after Muhammad came along and organized them into a structured religion. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews. So the fighting is about which line was the one God talked about and was promised the Holy Land. Muslims argue it was the line of Ishmael because he was Abraham and Sarah's first legal son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them. Jews argue it was the line of Isaac because he was Abraham and Sarah's first biological son and therefore, the Holy Land was promised to them.

Christians side with the Jews because Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is considered another offshoot of Judaism because they share the same traditional history right up Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac and at that point they begin to diverge.

They have been killing each other over it for 4,000 years...I don't see it stopping any time soon. But...yeah...believe it or not...that's what the fighting is all about.

Kids squabbling over who is daddy's favorite? :eek:

Grow up already, you are both living in the "holy land" so WTF?


What astonishes me is that it's a fucking desert. It's a wasteland. There is nothing there. It's not like they are fighting over the Bahamas or St. Thomas. They are fighting over sand

Which must be a factor then. When you have to tend a farm 24*7 there is always some kind of work that needs to be done. You don't get into wars because you are too busy trying to make a living. Even in Europe it wasn't the working peasants that started the wars, it was the idle rich.

So if you are sitting out in the sun all day surrounded by nothing but sand, flies and camel dung and you have nothing to do with your time but to pick fights with your neighbor then that explains the 4,000 years of killing each other.

Want to bet that they were killing each other even before the came up with the old testament myth as to the reason?

Interesting to note that the only "desert civilization" of any significance was based around the fertile Nile delta where there were lots of farmers.

My solution to the ME crisis is to get rid of the desert and turn it all into farmland instead. ;)
 
[
On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.

I am about to crash out. I hear you. I grew up in Northern Idaho. Lots of great outdoors stuff there. I go back frequently to take advantage of the outdoors. Gorgeous country but it has gotten almost too dangerous to go into now. When they reintroduced the wolves they took so well that they wiped out the deer and elk herds. Those herds are at about 10% of what they were before so the area is overrun with wolves and mountain lions now. Wolves aren't that big of a deal usually except they are out of food and so they are killing just about anything...cows, sheep, and suddenly humans are on the food chain.

The mountain lions...well they are cats. They hunt for sport. If you walk into their territory they will attack. Just like a house cat seeing a bird in the back yard. It doesn't need the food but it's instinct is "something is there...kill it". It locks its attention on and that's all it thinks about. Mountain lions are the same but they hunt from the trees and weigh about 120 pounds. So imagine yourself walking through the forest on a nice leisurely hike and someone drop two 50 pound bags of cement on your shoulders from 30 feet above. Then it goes straight for your neck. Basically, you have about 10 seconds to recover from the impact and kill the animal before you are dead. Good luck. :lol: I don't know why the mountain lions are surging though. They should be dropping off with the way the wolves have decimated the elk and deer herd but for some reason their population has exploded.

At least the grizzly bears have remained constant. :lol: It's really a shame though. It used to be such great country to go fishing, camping, hiking..people learned a respect and love for nature because of it and now you just can't do that anymore because you are putting your life on the line. And you can't just bring a gun and shoot them because they are protected so if you kill one it's a HUGE fine and massive legal problems. It's ridiculous actually
That's the way it should be. I love it! Humans stay out or enter at your own risk. Same for sharks.

It sounds beautiful.


No I don't think you quite understand. :lol: The wolves have completely overrun the area. Yeah the wolves are safe but the elk and deer are suddenly endangered. There used to be elk herds of 5,000 or more and now a big herd is 300-400. They are fucking wiped out. Great we saved the wolves but we just killed off the elk and the deer. The wolves are so hungry they are terrorizing farms and small towns. Ranchers are seeing their herds get demolished and it is no longer unusual for a pack to enter a rural town scavenging for what they can get. I don't know if you have ever seen a wolf in person, but it's not just a "big dog". It's a fucking massive killer. Some people say "I think I saw a wolf but it may have been a large hairy dog"...NO! :lol: When you see a wolf, there is no doubt what the fuck it is and it is not a nice animal.

As a northwesterner it really pisses me off. I am all for preserving the wolves too but this is a situation that is beyond preservation and I hear assholes from New York and Miami who have never experienced such animals try to lecture me about preserving nature....yeah...go out in the woods with those wolves and mountain lions and grizzly bears and see if your opinion is the same when you come back...IF you come back. Pretty convenient for a New Yorker to lecture me about preserving the wolves when they don't have to live with them in their back yard
When it gets out of control they need to give ranchers the green light to kill a few wolves. Population control should be part of conservation.
 
What are your thoughtd on the anti Christ and Armageddon and or the rapture and what's the difference?

Pfft...that is a thread unto itself. Seriously, there is no way to give a brief summary of those topics. I actually started two threads that dealt specifically with them. They were not well received. They got derailed by literalists and Christian extremists who were far more interested in attacking the messenger instead of the message and pounding a traditional futuristic (bullshit) interpretation instead of looking at it from a scholarly perspective. Eventually, I gave up just as I was starting to explore the text of Revelation, because it became pointless.

You can check it out if you wish. Lots of reading, but it breaks it down pretty thoroughly...between the fundamentalist howler monkeys throwing waves of excrement at me for being a heretic. :lol: I will say though, that of all the books in the Bible, Revelation is the one on which I am by far the most educated and knowledgeable about. If you want to narrow down your questions I can give a better answer.

On The Apocalypse Part I US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

On The Apocalypse Part II US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

If you want to avoid the rabble use the CDZ or the SDF to keep them out. The mods will remove all of the off topic flames when they are reported.
He isnt complaining douche bag.
 
What are your thoughtd on the anti Christ and Armageddon and or the rapture and what's the difference?

Pfft...that is a thread unto itself. Seriously, there is no way to give a brief summary of those topics. I actually started two threads that dealt specifically with them. They were not well received. They got derailed by literalists and Christian extremists who were far more interested in attacking the messenger instead of the message and pounding a traditional futuristic (bullshit) interpretation instead of looking at it from a scholarly perspective. Eventually, I gave up just as I was starting to explore the text of Revelation, because it became pointless.

You can check it out if you wish. Lots of reading, but it breaks it down pretty thoroughly...between the fundamentalist howler monkeys throwing waves of excrement at me for being a heretic. :lol: I will say though, that of all the books in the Bible, Revelation is the one on which I am by far the most educated and knowledgeable about. If you want to narrow down your questions I can give a better answer.

On The Apocalypse Part I US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

On The Apocalypse Part II US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

If you want to avoid the rabble use the CDZ or the SDF to keep them out. The mods will remove all of the off topic flames when they are reported.
He isnt complaining douche bag.

Uncalled for vulgarity.
 
[
On another note I'm going up north with my brothers father in law to check out my bros new 70 acre property he bought while he's still in switzerland. Must be nice huh? Least I get to hunt on it. Lol. No I'm happy for him. Gonna be a fun day. Hope we dont see mama bear and cubs. It is spring. Taking 2 guns.

I am about to crash out. I hear you. I grew up in Northern Idaho. Lots of great outdoors stuff there. I go back frequently to take advantage of the outdoors. Gorgeous country but it has gotten almost too dangerous to go into now. When they reintroduced the wolves they took so well that they wiped out the deer and elk herds. Those herds are at about 10% of what they were before so the area is overrun with wolves and mountain lions now. Wolves aren't that big of a deal usually except they are out of food and so they are killing just about anything...cows, sheep, and suddenly humans are on the food chain.

The mountain lions...well they are cats. They hunt for sport. If you walk into their territory they will attack. Just like a house cat seeing a bird in the back yard. It doesn't need the food but it's instinct is "something is there...kill it". It locks its attention on and that's all it thinks about. Mountain lions are the same but they hunt from the trees and weigh about 120 pounds. So imagine yourself walking through the forest on a nice leisurely hike and someone drop two 50 pound bags of cement on your shoulders from 30 feet above. Then it goes straight for your neck. Basically, you have about 10 seconds to recover from the impact and kill the animal before you are dead. Good luck. :lol: I don't know why the mountain lions are surging though. They should be dropping off with the way the wolves have decimated the elk and deer herd but for some reason their population has exploded.

At least the grizzly bears have remained constant. :lol: It's really a shame though. It used to be such great country to go fishing, camping, hiking..people learned a respect and love for nature because of it and now you just can't do that anymore because you are putting your life on the line. And you can't just bring a gun and shoot them because they are protected so if you kill one it's a HUGE fine and massive legal problems. It's ridiculous actually
That's the way it should be. I love it! Humans stay out or enter at your own risk. Same for sharks.

It sounds beautiful.


No I don't think you quite understand. :lol: The wolves have completely overrun the area. Yeah the wolves are safe but the elk and deer are suddenly endangered. There used to be elk herds of 5,000 or more and now a big herd is 300-400. They are fucking wiped out. Great we saved the wolves but we just killed off the elk and the deer. The wolves are so hungry they are terrorizing farms and small towns. Ranchers are seeing their herds get demolished and it is no longer unusual for a pack to enter a rural town scavenging for what they can get. I don't know if you have ever seen a wolf in person, but it's not just a "big dog". It's a fucking massive killer. Some people say "I think I saw a wolf but it may have been a large hairy dog"...NO! :lol: When you see a wolf, there is no doubt what the fuck it is and it is not a nice animal.

As a northwesterner it really pisses me off. I am all for preserving the wolves too but this is a situation that is beyond preservation and I hear assholes from New York and Miami who have never experienced such animals try to lecture me about preserving nature....yeah...go out in the woods with those wolves and mountain lions and grizzly bears and see if your opinion is the same when you come back...IF you come back. Pretty convenient for a New Yorker to lecture me about preserving the wolves when they don't have to live with them in their back yard
When it gets out of control they need to give ranchers the green light to kill a few wolves. Population control should be part of conservation.


It is out of control. Basically, what happened is this. Parts of Idaho, Montana, Washington, and Oregon were zoned up for re-introduction of wolves. The zones were determined by the amount of game that could support a pack that was in the area. So for example, Idaho was split into...say...7 zones with each zone supporting 7 packs. First off, that alone is outrageous That's 49 packs in the state of Idaho alone, but let's ignore that for now. That's a lot. But the brilliant way they wrote this legislation was that if a zone didn't take, ALL zones had to continue to be re-populated and the wolves would be considered protected until ALL zones met the 7 pack quota.

So what has happened is that the wolves took beautifully in zones 1-5, but in zones 6 and 7 only 3 packs took or none at all. The packs in those zones left the area and went into other zones. So now Zones 1-3 has 7 packs, but zone 4 has 11 packs, zone 5 has 14, and zones 6 and 7 still have none So instead of trying again and repopulating only the zones that didn't take, the legislation says they had to re-introduce all zones. So in attempt #2, even though zone 1 has met the 7 pack quota, they had to throw 7 new packs in there anyhow. So now zones 1-3 suddenly have 14 packs, zone 4 now has 18, zone 5 has 21, and zones 6 and 7 have the 7 they were hoping to get.

BUT...the wolves still didn't take in those zones and the wolves again moved into other zones and so they had the re-populate all the zones again. Well this has been happening over and over so some zones that had enough game to support 7 packs now have over 50 packs in that area. And because the legislation says they cannot be hunted until all zones meet the quota of 7 packs each, it is illegal to hunt those packs in the zones that are overrun because zone 6 only has 5 packs that took. Brilliant huh?

So what happens when there is a zone with 50 packs and only enough food to support 7 packs? Well they go find food. They take down ranchers' cattle, sheep, goats, and pigs. This contributes to higher prices for meat because the supply is getting diminished. Ranchers are experiencing significant losses of their herds due to wolf attacks and they have to make that money back by increasing the prices on the animals that do survive. They also go into the towns and take out cats and dogs and if they are hungry enough...humans are fair game (although this is rare).

Now legally, you can shoot them in self defense, but good luck shooting 15 wolves that are starving and pack hunting you. Even if you do manage to kill a few and run them off you must prove that it was self-defense. The wolves get the benefit of the law. Well how do you do that? How do you prove that you were attacked instead of simply hunting them? Unless you have wounds to show, you are fucked, and if you have wounds you are probably dead anyhow. So usually when someone survives an attack they still face huge legal problems as a result.

The state of Idaho is aware of these problems. This wasn't their idea. This was thrust upon them by the federal government and environmental activists (most of whom live in cities in different states far away from the havoc). So the Governor has silently suggested the strategy of "shoot, shovel, and shut the fuck up" which is how Idahoans are dealing with the issue for the most part. It's insanity
 

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