Understanding H.R. 3200

[mskafka]

Call me crazy. Call me the proverbial "Kool-Aid Drinker". Call me a socialist. Call me a Communist. Tell me that we should just, "send them a bill". Accuse me of being a blind follower of "Obamacare". Call me a F*$%ing moron. Call me an idiot. But I found this site interesting.

This is a site at: energycommerce.house.gov. Oh I know....the government is unreliable unless they are paying someone's salary, or they are approving an American-made drug (FDA), and protecting us from the evils of imported drugs). Otherwise....the government is "IN THE WAY!".

Anyway....what this site is attempting to do is to put this bill into laymen's terms, so that average people like myself, might better understand what exactly they are trying to do.

Now, by posting this, I am not trying to say that I agree with everything that the bill proposes.

I read about uncompensated care in my congressional district. Now surely everyone on the right and the left and in between knows that uncompensated care is probably one of the biggest reasons that we are seeking healthcare reform.

But anyway....I live in Kentucky. And this is what I discovered:

"Relieving the burden of uncompensated care for hospitals and health care providers. In 2008, health care providers in the district provided $118 million worth of uncompensated care, care that was provided to individuals who lacked insurance coverage and were unable to pay their bills. Under the legislation, these costs of uncompensated care would be virtually eliminated."

Okay, whether or not the gov't. is the answer. If this is not paid, and we don't get healthcare reform in the manner that is being proposed....who is going to compensate these hospitals for the millions of uncompensated care that they are giving?

I'm just pondering. I welcome both sides of the argument, and hopefully I will get personal opinions and resolutions and not name-calling.

Ideas, anyone?

 

[WillowTree]

Explain to me how the congress critters are going to cut 500 billion from medicare without denying seniors care! Explain to me how the congresscritters are going to make sure Americans are not paying for the health care of illegals.. explain to me why it is fair for 50% of the American Federal Income Tax payers to foot the bill for the other 50% of people who do not contribute to Federal Income tax.. and 1/2 of Mexico.

 

[mskafka]

Explain to me how the congress critters are going to cut 500 billion from medicare without denying seniors care! Explain to me how the congresscritters are going to make sure Americans are not paying for the health care of illegals.. explain to me why it is fair for 50% of the American Federal Income Tax payers to foot the bill for the other 50% of people who do not contribute to Federal Income tax.. and 1/2 of Mexico.

Willow, remember what I said: I am not suggesting that I agree that gov't. takeover is the answer. There is no hidden agenda or message to this thread.

Do you have a suggestion on how we pay for uncompensated care? I work for a hospital, and I'm feeling it! Our compensation is better than many, because I work in a wealthy area. But we are feeling it. We're not getting a raise this year because our collections are down 4%. Yes, I am more than thankful that I have a job. But our equipment seems to breaking more frequently these days, and we cannot get it fixed (costs too much). Supplies don't get ordered as often. (medications being one of them). Holes in uniforms. Soles falling off boots, etc...

So who is going to pay for it? If not government (and that's not what I am suggesting) then who?

 

[WillowTree]

Explain to me how the congress critters are going to cut 500 billion from medicare without denying seniors care! Explain to me how the congresscritters are going to make sure Americans are not paying for the health care of illegals.. explain to me why it is fair for 50% of the American Federal Income Tax payers to foot the bill for the other 50% of people who do not contribute to Federal Income tax.. and 1/2 of Mexico.

Willow, remember what I said: I am not suggesting that I agree that gov't. takeover is the answer. There is no hidden agenda or message to this thread.

Do you have a suggestion on how we pay for uncompensated care? I work for a hospital, and I'm feeling it! Our compensation is better than many, because I work in a wealthy area. But we are feeling it. We're not getting a raise this year because our collections are down 4%. Yes, I am more than thankful that I have a job. But our equipment seems to breaking more frequently these days, and we cannot get it fixed (costs too much). Supplies don't get ordered as often. (medications being one of them). Holes in uniforms. Soles falling off boots, etc...

So who is going to pay for it? If not government (and that's not what I am suggesting) then who?

that's why your hospital charges ten bucks for an aspirin,, to pay for uncompensated care,, you also have a thing called bill collectors and small claims court.. how much uncompensated care is because the person is unwilling to pay and not unable? first we need those figures. and secondly,, how much uncompensated care is due to illegal immigration?

 

[mskafka]

I should add that this has been coming for about 4 years. The decline in experience and competency in hiring. The quality of our equipment. This is unprecedented at this hospital, and in this community. I've been employed there for 10 years, and I've never seen the likes before, of what I have seen in the last 4.

 

[Annie]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide
Tip for Dems: If you don't want people to think that subsidized, voluntary end-of-of-life counseling sessions are the camel's nose of an attempt to cut costs by limiting end of life care, then don't put them in a bill the overarching, stated purpose of which is to cut health care costs! ... I mean, did that provision have to be in the bill? If it really was just an added "benefit" for patients that had nothing to do with cutting costs (which I don't believe for a minute), did it even belong in the bill? Isn't there some group of Congressional Democrats--let's call them "the leadership"--whose job it is to prevent their co-partisans from inserting into major legislation relatively minor provisions that will have the effect of sinking the whole package? ...

Update: Clive Crook notes that Obama has managed to get all the political grief that comes with incessantly talking about cutting costs without doing much to cut costs! The missed alternative: Simply "sell access and health security as things worth paying for." Seems almost like an easy sale now, doesn't it? ...11:26 P.M.

 

[mskafka]

Explain to me how the congress critters are going to cut 500 billion from medicare without denying seniors care! Explain to me how the congresscritters are going to make sure Americans are not paying for the health care of illegals.. explain to me why it is fair for 50% of the American Federal Income Tax payers to foot the bill for the other 50% of people who do not contribute to Federal Income tax.. and 1/2 of Mexico.

Willow, remember what I said: I am not suggesting that I agree that gov't. takeover is the answer. There is no hidden agenda or message to this thread.

Do you have a suggestion on how we pay for uncompensated care? I work for a hospital, and I'm feeling it! Our compensation is better than many, because I work in a wealthy area. But we are feeling it. We're not getting a raise this year because our collections are down 4%. Yes, I am more than thankful that I have a job. But our equipment seems to breaking more frequently these days, and we cannot get it fixed (costs too much). Supplies don't get ordered as often. (medications being one of them). Holes in uniforms. Soles falling off boots, etc...

So who is going to pay for it? If not government (and that's not what I am suggesting) then who?

that's why your hospital charges ten bucks for an aspirin,, to pay for uncompensated care,, you also have a thing called bill collectors and small claims court.. how much uncompensated care is because the person is unwilling to pay and not unable? first we need those figures. and secondly,, how much uncompensated care is due to illegal immigration?

You're correct about illegal immigrants. Absolutely correct. But that is nothing new. I saw it during the Clinton years. I saw it during the Bush years. Something to think about: someone is hiring these people. Someone, is giving them the incentive to come here. There are websites that announce those people. The information is questionably credible, but my point is again....someone is hiring them. Someone with a hell of a lot more money than I have. Is that ethical?

Now, I am all for immigration when someone takes the appropriate channels. I'm not someone who thinks that we should open the floodgates and let everyone in. We're all immigrants. Some of us have been here longer than others. I digress...

The expensive aspirin...that's just an example. Just about every hospital is going to charge more for something simple such as tylenol. Nurses don't work for free. They have to be paid to bring them to you. They are paid well for what they do, and they do it well, so they should be compensated well. And physicians have to be paid to write the order for the drug. That's another reason that things such as aspirin are going to cost more in a hospital setting. Just like we pay a mechanic more to maintenance our vehicles than we would spend, if we did it ourselves.

Yes, there are always going to be people unwilling to pay for what they've used. And certainly you've raised a good point: I will do reasearch and try to ascertain what percentage of people are just deadbeats. That will be a long process, and any input you have for where I might find that information would be much appreciated. With the HIPPA laws, I doubt that I will find much in relation to healthcare. And you can't get blood from a turnip. A GM plant has recently closed in the district that I work in. That hasn't helped our collections either, I'm sure. If I remember correctly, the uncompensated care dollar amount for that district was $116 million. I'll have to double check though.

 

[mskafka]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide
Tip for Dems: If you don't want people to think that subsidized, voluntary end-of-of-life counseling sessions are the camel's nose of an attempt to cut costs by limiting end of life care, then don't put them in a bill the overarching, stated purpose of which is to cut health care costs! ... I mean, did that provision have to be in the bill? If it really was just an added "benefit" for patients that had nothing to do with cutting costs (which I don't believe for a minute), did it even belong in the bill? Isn't there some group of Congressional Democrats--let's call them "the leadership"--whose job it is to prevent their co-partisans from inserting into major legislation relatively minor provisions that will have the effect of sinking the whole package? ...

Update: Clive Crook notes that Obama has managed to get all the political grief that comes with incessantly talking about cutting costs without doing much to cut costs! The missed alternative: Simply "sell access and health security as things worth paying for." Seems almost like an easy sale now, doesn't it? ...11:26 P.M.

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

 

[keee keee]

We are all screwed if this abortion passes!!! Thats why congess, senate and families will be exempt from this WONDERFUL program. Makes you wonder why if this is so good why won't they use it? Call your congressman now and complain!!!! Better yet show up at their next townhall meeting and watch them sqirm when pressed with questions and outrage from their constituants!!!!

 

[WillowTree]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide
Tip for Dems: If you don't want people to think that subsidized, voluntary end-of-of-life counseling sessions are the camel's nose of an attempt to cut costs by limiting end of life care, then don't put them in a bill the overarching, stated purpose of which is to cut health care costs! ... I mean, did that provision have to be in the bill? If it really was just an added "benefit" for patients that had nothing to do with cutting costs (which I don't believe for a minute), did it even belong in the bill? Isn't there some group of Congressional Democrats--let's call them "the leadership"--whose job it is to prevent their co-partisans from inserting into major legislation relatively minor provisions that will have the effect of sinking the whole package? ...

Update: Clive Crook notes that Obama has managed to get all the political grief that comes with incessantly talking about cutting costs without doing much to cut costs! The missed alternative: Simply "sell access and health security as things worth paying for." Seems almost like an easy sale now, doesn't it? ...11:26 P.M.

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

no she isn't,, barking up the wrong tree, the democrats are going to refuse care to the elderly, and at the same time give it to illegals,, she has it esactly right! now don't try to blow smoke up everybody's ass under the guise that you work in the health care industry..

 

[mskafka]

We are all screwed if this abortion passes!!! Thats why congess, senate and families will be exempt from this WONDERFUL program. Makes you wonder why if this is so good why won't they use it? Call your congressman now and complain!!!! Better yet show up at their next townhall meeting and watch them sqirm when pressed with questions and outrage from their constituants!!!!

Abortion? Are you speaking figuratively? I was just wondering because I've heard some propaganda about HR 3200 funding abortions. I have awesome insurance right now. If I didn't have it, I would be paying over $200/ month on medications. But as it is now, I pay around $30/month. So no...I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to be on a gov't. healthcare program. But what are we going to do?

Illegal immigration seems to be on the front burners of many people's minds. What needs to be done, IMO, is to cut off the head of the snake. Go after the wealthy businessmen, and women, who are hiring these people...knowing that they are here illegally. Yes, there are clearly people in this country who feel a sense of entitlement and think that they are above certain jobs. But I don't believe that they are the majority. If you pay someone a liveable wage, they will work for you. Illegals will do jobs that American's won't? Yeah, I'll buy that. I wouldn't lay tile for $2.00/hour either. If that is what some of these people are suggesting.

And speaking of which (during the housing bubble), it seemed that a new subdivision was going up every month where I was working. A worker would fall off the roof of a three-story house fracturing their spine, they spoke no English (not profiling any particular race, I've seen many different), and the construction company owner could never be reached. Amazing. Just a scenario. Something to think about. We've all seen it.

 

[WillowTree]

We are all screwed if this abortion passes!!! Thats why congess, senate and families will be exempt from this WONDERFUL program. Makes you wonder why if this is so good why won't they use it? Call your congressman now and complain!!!! Better yet show up at their next townhall meeting and watch them sqirm when pressed with questions and outrage from their constituants!!!!

Abortion? Are you speaking figuratively? I was just wondering because I've heard some propaganda about HR 3200 funding abortions. I have awesome insurance right now. If I didn't have it, I would be paying over $200/ month on medications. But as it is now, I pay around $30/month. So no...I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to be on a gov't. healthcare program. But what are we going to do?

Illegal immigration seems to be on the front burners of many people's minds. What needs to be done, IMO, is to cut off the head of the snake. Go after the wealthy businessmen, and women, who are hiring these people...knowing that they are here illegally. yes and you could write and get your asshole democrats to pass the Heller amendment too but you won't. will you Yes, there are clearly people in this country who feel a sense of entitlement and think that they are above certain jobs. But I don't believe that they are the majority. If you pay someone a liveable wage, they will work for you. Illegals will do jobs that American's won't? Yeah, I'll buy that. I wouldn't lay tile for $2.00/hour either. If that is what some of these people are suggesting.

And speaking of which (during the housing bubble), it seemed that a new subdivision was going up every month where I was working. A worker would fall off the roof of a three-story house fracturing their spine, they spoke no English (not profiling any particular race, I've seen many different), and the construction company owner could never be reached. Amazing. Just a scenario. Something to think about. We've all seen it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

no she isn't,, barking up the wrong tree, the democrats are going to refuse care to the elderly, and at the same time give it to illegals,, she has it esactly right! now don't try to blow smoke up everybody's ass under the guise that you work in the health care industry..

And not just the elderly.

Have you seen this in Oregon, the only state with a suicide clause in their 'healthcare':

Oregon Offers to Pay to Kill, but Not to Treat Cancer Patient


TODAY'S HEADLINES | SEND NEWS TIPS | DONATE
SHARE: E-MAIL PRINT

By Tim Waggoner
SALEM, Oregon, June 4, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Lung cancer patient, Barbara Wagner, was recently notified that her oncologist-prescribed medication that would slow the growth of cancer would not be covered by the Oregon Health Plan; the plan, however, she was informed, would cover doctor-assisted suicide should she wish to kill herself.
"Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan," read the letter notifying Wagner of the health plan's decision.
Wagner says she was shocked by the decision. "To say to someone, we'll pay for you to die, but not pay for you to live, it's cruel," she told the Register-Guard. "I get angry. Who do they think they are?"
This past Monday morning, however, Wagner had reason to rejoice. A representative from the company that manufactures the treatment called the cancer patient to say they would give her the medication for free.
Oregon Offers to Pay to Kill, but Not to Treat Cancer Patient

Where is the indication that a 'public option' would not also be mandated to save money, not lives?

 

[mskafka]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

no she isn't,, barking up the wrong tree, the democrats are going to refuse care to the elderly, and at the same time give it to illegals,, she has it esactly right! now don't try to blow smoke up everybody's ass under the guise that you work in the health care industry..

Blow smoke? Yeah, I work in healthcare. Since the economy isn't doing very well right now, I'm glad that I picked it as a career choice. Now ask me if I'm glad on Christmas Day, Thanksgiving, Easter...you'll get a different answer.

The thing that set me off was the "Tip for Dems" beginning. And I've been reading this same argument for a month or better. And I just haven't found anything that cements the "certain death for the elderly" in my mind. All that I can tell you is that I've seen at least 1,000 of these things, and I have yet to see one that wasn't justified. A patient that has been aphasic for 8 years, has a feeding tube, is in diapers, and is in a constant fetal position, due to upper and lower extremity contractures.....I personally would not want to be resuscitated if I were in that position. But, I realize that not everyone thinks that way.

Once again, we're talking about uncompensated care.

 

[WillowTree]

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

no she isn't,, barking up the wrong tree, the democrats are going to refuse care to the elderly, and at the same time give it to illegals,, she has it esactly right! now don't try to blow smoke up everybody's ass under the guise that you work in the health care industry..

Blow smoke? Yeah, I work in healthcare. Since the economy isn't doing very well right now, I'm glad that I picked it as a career choice. Now ask me if I'm glad on Christmas Day, Thanksgiving, Easter...you'll get a different answer.

The thing that set me off was the "Tip for Dems" beginning. And I've been reading this same argument for a month or better. And I just haven't found anything that cements the "certain death for the elderly" in my mind. All that I can tell you is that I've seen at least 1,000 of these things, and I have yet to see one that wasn't justified. A patient that has been aphasic for 8 years, has a feeding tube, is in diapers, and is in a constant fetal position, due to upper and lower extremity contractures.....I personally would not want to be resuscitated if I were in that position. But, I realize that not everyone thinks that way.

Once again, we're talking about uncompensated care.

perhaps then,, you will take a breath and tell us who will be denied care when the democrats vote to cut 500 billion dollars from medicare! will it be seniors or illegals. and don't tell us it's all about DNR's that dog don't hunt

 

[Annie]

Saying it well, with lots of links:

Kausfiles : How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide

How Health Care Reform Commits Suicide
Tip for Dems: If you don't want people to think that subsidized, voluntary end-of-of-life counseling sessions are the camel's nose of an attempt to cut costs by limiting end of life care, then don't put them in a bill the overarching, stated purpose of which is to cut health care costs! ... I mean, did that provision have to be in the bill? If it really was just an added "benefit" for patients that had nothing to do with cutting costs (which I don't believe for a minute), did it even belong in the bill? Isn't there some group of Congressional Democrats--let's call them "the leadership"--whose job it is to prevent their co-partisans from inserting into major legislation relatively minor provisions that will have the effect of sinking the whole package? ...

Update: Clive Crook notes that Obama has managed to get all the political grief that comes with incessantly talking about cutting costs without doing much to cut costs! The missed alternative: Simply "sell access and health security as things worth paying for." Seems almost like an easy sale now, doesn't it? ...11:26 P.M.

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

Haven't a clue to what you are trying to infer. I've lots of personal knowledge with living wills and DNR's also.

My folks in their 60's and healthy established living wills, giving at that time power of medical attorney to my brother and I. Until their late 70's, we weren't needed, as they were able to make their own calls.

My mom was 77 when she'd had 2 serious strokes, lots of mini strokes. Then she broke her hip. She went into rehab and then to my brother's ranch home, with her and my dad with their own room and bath. When osteoporosis caused the second break of the hip a year later, she again had surgery, to alliviate (sic) pain, but with a DNR, as were her wishes. She then went into minor rehab and wheelchair. She also chose to move from my brother's house, to mine. I've a colonial home, with only a powder room on first floor. My folks had the wherewithal to hire 24 hour nursing, so that's what we did. Hospital bed on first floor, my brother coming twice a week to carry her upstairs for regular bath.

Did that for a couple years, more strokes and loss of live in nurse necessitated her moving for a year to nursing home. While there she had an episode of pneumonia, and was hospitalized for it. When she went into major stroke, the DNR came into effect. She was given fluids and nutrients, but no more. She died about 12 hours later. During that time, my dad and brother and I conferred, reaching what we thought my mom would want.

My dad was healthier, but had heart and kidney issues, the latter due to meds from WWII treatments. Over the years lots of issues. Pacemaker? With Electroshock capabilities? Cancer. Chemo? Radiation? He was able to call his own decisions, unlike my mom. He chose at first no pacemaker, then the cardiologist made him understand that his ability to golf 3 times a week, go on cruises, etc., would no longer be possible. When he realized the quality of life, he said, OK, but no electro shock addition. My brother and I agreed, the doc however chose to override when the surgery got underway. We all accepted his reasoning.

When he was diagnosed with lung cancer, nearly 2 years later, at first he refused oral chemo, (see a pattern?). After the oncologist and cardiologist told him to try the oral, they though IV would be too dibilitating on his kidneys, he went along after 2 days. It was successful for about 6 months, then failed. The docs wanted him to do radiation, he said no. We supported his decision based upon his reasoning. Truth is, the docs were more deciding on how much a 'fighter' and 'person' he was, than on how he might be sucked into more time, but no quality. He was weak and knew it. He had a wonderful, though sick week before 3 days in hospital.

Seems to me that is what all should be able to choose when it comes to end, especially when painful.

Few want to be a burden to their children, but to deny what the older generation give to the younger would be foolhardy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Call me crazy. Call me the proverbial "Kool-Aid Drinker". Call me a socialist. Call me a Communist. Tell me that we should just, "send them a bill". Accuse me of being a blind follower of "Obamacare". Call me a F*$%ing moron. Call me an idiot. But I found this site interesting.

This is a site at: energycommerce.house.gov. Oh I know....the government is unreliable unless they are paying someone's salary, or they are approving an American-made drug (FDA), and protecting us from the evils of imported drugs). Otherwise....the government is "IN THE WAY!".

Anyway....what this site is attempting to do is to put this bill into laymen's terms, so that average people like myself, might better understand what exactly they are trying to do.

Now, by posting this, I am not trying to say that I agree with everything that the bill proposes.

I read about uncompensated care in my congressional district. Now surely everyone on the right and the left and in between knows that uncompensated care is probably one of the biggest reasons that we are seeking healthcare reform.

But anyway....I live in Kentucky. And this is what I discovered:

"Relieving the burden of uncompensated care for hospitals and health care providers. In 2008, health care providers in the district provided $118 million worth of uncompensated care, care that was provided to individuals who lacked insurance coverage and were unable to pay their bills. Under the legislation, these costs of uncompensated care would be virtually eliminated."

Okay, whether or not the gov't. is the answer. If this is not paid, and we don't get healthcare reform in the manner that is being proposed....who is going to compensate these hospitals for the millions of uncompensated care that they are giving?

I'm just pondering. I welcome both sides of the argument, and hopefully I will get personal opinions and resolutions and not name-calling.

Ideas, anyone?

In my opinion HR3200 is way too complex for our government to effectively handle. It will dimish the quality and availablity of our health care.

Why do I say this, I say this based on these 6 examples of the government failing to run programs effectively:

1) Social Security
2) Cash for Clunkers
3) Native American Guaranteed Government Health Care (yes our govt has laws saying they will provide the healthcare and if you look at the quality of care the Native Americans get you will see why i'm against hr3200)
4) VA hospitals
5) Medicare
6) Massachussetts bankrupt universal health care that covers 97% of my fellow state citizens.


So yeah i can bitch but do I have any ideas to offer up? Sure do:

1) TORT REFORM to reduce costs to all of us
2) Insurance reform, make it illegal to deny coverage to current coverage holders when they get sick...even if something was pre existing.
3) Insurance reform...make it illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions (they can charge a premium which can't be more than 100% more than a normal plan's cost)
4) Fix medicare/cade so those on it get good and prompt coverage and so it can be expanded to other's who dont work for whatever reason.
5) A plan to get those who can't afford insurance but make too much to get it from medicare/cade so they can afford insurance, if they choose to. What is the plan? I say a 100% tax credit for all individuals under say 35k/year or families under 50k/year.



That will go A LONG way to solving our current problem and wont dismantle the current health care system. Our system is good, its just that the costs are high and the coverage is not good enough.

Why do we need a 1000 page monstrosity that will totally destroy our current system and replace it with something the govt will run, which as cited by my 6 examples the govt is incapable of doing.

 

[mskafka]

Annie, I fully understand living wills, DNR orders, advance directives...etc...You're barking up the wrong tree, where I am concerned. You need to use this on someone who isn't in the business.

no she isn't,, barking up the wrong tree, the democrats are going to refuse care to the elderly, and at the same time give it to illegals,, she has it esactly right! now don't try to blow smoke up everybody's ass under the guise that you work in the health care industry..

And not just the elderly.

Have you seen this in Oregon, the only state with a suicide clause in their 'healthcare':

Oregon Offers to Pay to Kill, but Not to Treat Cancer Patient


TODAY'S HEADLINES | SEND NEWS TIPS | DONATE
SHARE: E-MAIL PRINT

By Tim Waggoner
SALEM, Oregon, June 4, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Lung cancer patient, Barbara Wagner, was recently notified that her oncologist-prescribed medication that would slow the growth of cancer would not be covered by the Oregon Health Plan; the plan, however, she was informed, would cover doctor-assisted suicide should she wish to kill herself.
"Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan," read the letter notifying Wagner of the health plan's decision.
Wagner says she was shocked by the decision. "To say to someone, we'll pay for you to die, but not pay for you to live, it's cruel," she told the Register-Guard. "I get angry. Who do they think they are?"
This past Monday morning, however, Wagner had reason to rejoice. A representative from the company that manufactures the treatment called the cancer patient to say they would give her the medication for free.
Oregon Offers to Pay to Kill, but Not to Treat Cancer Patient

Where is the indication that a 'public option' would not also be mandated to save money, not lives?

No, no, no, no. I'm not for assisted suicide. I think that it is illegal in every state but Oregon, correct? Yes, that is wrong. Unless it is what someone chooses. I'm certain that I don't know all of the facts.

Chic, can you point me to a non-biased website that states that "assisted suicide" is going to become commonplace with H.R. 3200?

Most people in healthcare would not stand for this.



I've watched many people take their last breaths, because I had to honor their DNR wishes. You keep them comfortable, and just wait. It's not fun. Noone enjoys doing it. But it is easier on them and their families, espcially when the patient is much older, or has an extensive medical history. If someone can show me the euthenasia plans, I might reconsider. Otherwise, please don't make this out to be something that it isn't. Again, noone enjoys turning to a man's wife of 50 years and saying, "he's dead. I'm sorry". It sucks.

 

[mskafka]

Call me crazy. Call me the proverbial "Kool-Aid Drinker". Call me a socialist. Call me a Communist. Tell me that we should just, "send them a bill". Accuse me of being a blind follower of "Obamacare". Call me a F*$%ing moron. Call me an idiot. But I found this site interesting.

This is a site at: energycommerce.house.gov. Oh I know....the government is unreliable unless they are paying someone's salary, or they are approving an American-made drug (FDA), and protecting us from the evils of imported drugs). Otherwise....the government is "IN THE WAY!".

Anyway....what this site is attempting to do is to put this bill into laymen's terms, so that average people like myself, might better understand what exactly they are trying to do.

Now, by posting this, I am not trying to say that I agree with everything that the bill proposes.

I read about uncompensated care in my congressional district. Now surely everyone on the right and the left and in between knows that uncompensated care is probably one of the biggest reasons that we are seeking healthcare reform.

But anyway....I live in Kentucky. And this is what I discovered:

"Relieving the burden of uncompensated care for hospitals and health care providers. In 2008, health care providers in the district provided $118 million worth of uncompensated care, care that was provided to individuals who lacked insurance coverage and were unable to pay their bills. Under the legislation, these costs of uncompensated care would be virtually eliminated."

Okay, whether or not the gov't. is the answer. If this is not paid, and we don't get healthcare reform in the manner that is being proposed....who is going to compensate these hospitals for the millions of uncompensated care that they are giving?

I'm just pondering. I welcome both sides of the argument, and hopefully I will get personal opinions and resolutions and not name-calling.

Ideas, anyone?

In my opinion HR3200 is way too complex for our government to effectively handle. It will dimish the quality and availablity of our health care.

Why do I say this, I say this based on these 6 examples of the government failing to run programs effectively:

1) Social Security
2) Cash for Clunkers
3) Native American Guaranteed Government Health Care (yes our govt has laws saying they will provide the healthcare and if you look at the quality of care the Native Americans get you will see why i'm against hr3200)
4) VA hospitals
5) Medicare
6) Massachussetts bankrupt universal health care that covers 97% of my fellow state citizens.


So yeah i can bitch but do I have any ideas to offer up? Sure do:

1) TORT REFORM to reduce costs to all of us
2) Insurance reform, make it illegal to deny coverage to current coverage holders when they get sick...even if something was pre existing.
3) Insurance reform...make it illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions (they can charge a premium which can't be more than 100% more than a normal plan's cost)
4) Fix medicare/cade so those on it get good and prompt coverage and so it can be expanded to other's who dont work for whatever reason.
5) A plan to get those who can't afford insurance but make too much to get it from medicare/cade so they can afford insurance, if they choose to. What is the plan? I say a 100% tax credit for all individuals under say 35k/year or families under 50k/year.



That will go A LONG way to solving our current problem and wont dismantle the current health care system. Our system is good, its just that the costs are high and the coverage is not good enough.

Why do we need a 1000 page monstrosity that will totally destroy our current system and replace it with something the govt will run, which as cited by my 6 examples the govt is incapable of doing.

1. VA hospitals. Well, there is good and bad. Patient dignity goes out the door, when I roll a patient into one. You walk by the room, and "big jim and the twins" are clear for the whole world to see, and noone is bothering to close the curtain. I've seen that many times. Some of the providers are very rude and impatient with our veterans. But I will say that I have seen many veterans survive many problems, that ordinary civilians wouldn't have. Now perhaps this is because many of them are already in prime shape from their years of military service. But I've seen people who have a history of cancer in multiple places, heart disease with a pacemaker/defibrillator and post bypass, emphysema, congestive heart failure, renal failure, cirrhosis of the liver, and so on. And what I mean by this is that there are some really good physicians at some of the VA hospitals. In Nashville, most of them also have privledges at Vanderbilt Medical Center. So in Nashville, it is for the most part okay. But there are some shady people who are connected to VA.

2. Cash for Clunkers-it probably could have been a little better planned. It is a good idea.

3. Medicare-most of the complaints I hear about Medicare are from physicians, and Medicare returns.

4. Tort reform-yeah, it would be nice if it weren't so easy for people to sue. Most healthcare providers give nothing but their best, when saving a life, or treating someone. Where that is most needed is in OB/GYN.

5. Make it illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions- I like it. But that will effect insurance companies' bottom lines, so most of them are not going to go into this quietly.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Call me crazy. Call me the proverbial "Kool-Aid Drinker".

I'll just call you an innocent dupe, a Mark for the con, and ask you why the site you're hawking didn't explain any of this:

HR 3200
Under this section:

‘‘TITLE XXXI—PREVENTION AND WELLNESS
‘‘Subtitle A—Prevention and Wellness Trust
‘‘Sec. 3111. Prevention and Wellness Trust.
‘‘Subtitle B—National Prevention and Wellness Strategy
‘‘Sec. 3121. National Prevention and Wellness Strategy.
‘‘Subtitle C—Prevention Task Forces <---- lays out the "volunteer program"
‘‘Sec. 3131. Task Force on Clinical Preventive Services.
‘‘Sec. 3132. Task Force on Community Preventive Services. <---- Talks about door to door weighing, wellness check.
‘‘Subtitle D—Prevention and Wellness Research
‘‘Sec. 3141. Prevention and wellness research activity coordination. <---- "Activity coordination" sets up the bureaucracy to handle the "community organizers" for this.
‘‘Sec. 3142. Community prevention and wellness research grants. <----- How ACORN and others get paid for this.

They visit your home, weigh you, check your fridge and interview you about your dietary habits.... Money for this goes to ACORN. The "wellness police."

It's little wonder they wanted to push this bill through before anyone could read it. And it's NO wonder this isn't explained or talked about anywhere.