Under "Don't ask, don't tell" it costs $52,800 to liberate the military from each gay

loosecannon

Senior Member
May 7, 2007
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Is this the kind of gratuitous deficit spending that the ridiculous right wants to embrace?

Washington (CNN) -- It cost more than $193 million for the Pentagon to implement the policy of removing gays and lesbians from military service over six years, a study says.

The Government Accountability Office, the congressional watchdog agency, looked at the cases of 3,664 active duty personnel forced to leave the service from 2004 to 2009 because of the ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military.

The cost came to an average of $52,800 to take each person out of the military and find and train a replacement, it found. And the report released Thursday says that 40% of those service members had skills in a "critical" occupation or foreign language such as Arabic, or both.

"Our calculation includes the cost to the services to recruit a new service member, provide him or her with basic training and graduate the service member from initial skills training in the occupational specialty in which a service member had been separated," the report said.

Of the cases examined by the GAO, 39%, or 1,442, service members who were removed under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy held "critical occupations" such as infantryman. Less than 1%, 23, had foreign language skills, like Arabic or Spanish, according to the report.

But the GAO noted that the number of people with critical skills and occupations might be even higher because of problems compiling the information
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Why does this make the knee jerk right look like homophobe central and make their commitment to deficit reduction look like lipstick on their pig?
 
Because they're scared of "the gay" infecting the military and turning them into a less effective fighting force.

Remember......fear and oppression costs money.
 
Not sure why this is a right issues. It was the left who passed this act.

Every poll I've seen has the majority of the American people supporting the repeal of don't ask don't tell-I don't recall seeing a poll with below a 60% support to be honest, so while it's certainly not a right issue-it's also not entirely accurate to say it's a left issue either.
 
Besides, the OP is referring to the policy BEFORE it was repealed, ergo a right wing policy. The numbers themselves are suspect though and do not take many factors into account.

Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.
 
Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

You are an imbecile, and truth will never be your friend.
 
Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

You are an imbecile, and truth will never be your friend.

Really? Care to expound on that meaningless statement or are you unable to string a real statement together. What exactly do you think is incorrect about that?
 
Not sure why this is a right issues. It was the left who passed this act.

That would be because prior to this act, there was an outright ban on gays in the military whether they were "asked" or "told" or not.

"Don't ask don't tell" was a compromise between Clinton and the Republicans, who at the time were trying to turn the existing policy that was in place barring gays altogether into law.

In addition, it was the right that was trying to block repeal when it was being passed.

So, yes, this is definitely a "right" issue.
 
Besides, the OP is referring to the policy BEFORE it was repealed, ergo a right wing policy. The numbers themselves are suspect though and do not take many factors into account.

Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

While I understand your desire to have the military create it's own internal policy, soldiers are still citizens, and are therefore guaranteed the same constitutional rights afforded to all other citizens.

Therefore, if a group is being unfairly discriminated against by the military, Congress has every right to step in and make legislation to ensure said constitutional rights are being protected.

Now, that being said, I really didn't care too much about this issue, but I believe congress to be correct in what they did.
 
Not sure why this is a right issues. It was the left who passed this act.

Every poll I've seen has the majority of the American people supporting the repeal of don't ask don't tell-I don't recall seeing a poll with below a 60% support to be honest, so while it's certainly not a right issue-it's also not entirely accurate to say it's a left issue either.

I prefer to listen to what the Military say on this, rather than those who don't have to risk their lives.
 
Because they're scared of "the gay" infecting the military and turning them into a less effective fighting force.

Remember......fear and oppression costs money.

Once admitted and/or discovered, gays were still separated or discharged, so the cost involved of shipping them home would have been the same.
 
Besides, the OP is referring to the policy BEFORE it was repealed, ergo a right wing policy. The numbers themselves are suspect though and do not take many factors into account.

Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

To overturn it by executive order means that the next president could overturn the previous executive order. That would create complete turmoil. It needs to be legislated because it's a Consitutional issue of equality.
 
Not sure why this is a right issues. It was the left who passed this act.

Every poll I've seen has the majority of the American people supporting the repeal of don't ask don't tell-I don't recall seeing a poll with below a 60% support to be honest, so while it's certainly not a right issue-it's also not entirely accurate to say it's a left issue either.

I prefer to listen to what the Military say on this, rather than those who don't have to risk their lives.

Don't ask, don't tell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In November 2010, the Defense Department published a comprehensive report on the effects of repeal. The report included the results of a survey of military personnel on bases throughout the United States and overseas, including 400,000 servicemembers and 150,000 military spouses.[81] Overall, 70 percent of military personnel thought that integrating gays into the military would be positive, mixed, or of no consequence.[46] However, 40 to 60 percent of personnel in the Marine Corps and combat specialties said that repealing the ban would be negative.[46]

Ooooh, only the toughest guys are against it.
 
Besides, the OP is referring to the policy BEFORE it was repealed, ergo a right wing policy. The numbers themselves are suspect though and do not take many factors into account.

Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

To overturn it by executive order means that the next president could overturn the previous executive order. That would create complete turmoil. It needs to be legislated because it's a Consitutional issue of equality.

Completely and utterly false. That is how ALL military policy is decided. The ONLY reason that DADT did not fall under this is because the republican congress passed it as law, something they should NEVER have done in the first place. It should have stayed with POTUS as all other policy. Congress has things that pertain to the military that they need to put into action but this should not have been one of those things.
 
Besides, the OP is referring to the policy BEFORE it was repealed, ergo a right wing policy. The numbers themselves are suspect though and do not take many factors into account.

Also, to the popularity I could give a shit. 99% of the country has no fucking clue whatsoever about the don't ask don't tell policy, its effects and whether or not it should be repealed. They should have ZERO to say on the matter as it is not an issue for the public to decide. they have no clue what it means and how it can damage the frontline operations. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the repeal of don't ask don't tell. The military can do as it pleases. The only thing I am pissed about is the fact that congress is making this decision in the first place (also the fault of the right). For me, this power should have always rested in the hands of the commander in chief. I may not like the man and his policies but he IS the commander in chief and if he said the policy is gone tomorrow then that is EXACTLY what we will do. PERIOD. That is where the beginning and the end of this policy should lie.

While I understand your desire to have the military create it's own internal policy, soldiers are still citizens, and are therefore guaranteed the same constitutional rights afforded to all other citizens.

Therefore, if a group is being unfairly discriminated against by the military, Congress has every right to step in and make legislation to ensure said constitutional rights are being protected.

Now, that being said, I really didn't care too much about this issue, but I believe congress to be correct in what they did.

There are TONS of things that the military regulates/removes/denies serving that are not legal issues. There is no right to serve and the military regularly creates policy that removes people from service that ordinary citizens are allowed to partake in.
 
I find it hilarious they even polled the military members on their opinion of it. It's not everyday they act like they care about what the soldiers want.

I am a pretty 'Conservative' person, but frankly, here is a short & simple way I see DADT:

If I am in a plane, and I have the choice of straight mechanic vs a gay mechanic, and the gay mechanic is better, I want that gay mechanic working on the plane. Yea, I am going to jump out of it, but I do not want to be jumping out of a plane that has a screw loose that ended up making a object of millions of dollars go kaputt. Basically, I want the best mechanic, I don't care what he or she is. I understand guys, I do, I must admit, I'm nervous about being in a shower with a bunch of guys that some could be gay, but I don't fret about it constantly. I am going to do my service, and make a career, and be the best I can be. Whether their are gays near me or not, I don't care, because I am straight and they can't turn me gay. I don't believe homosexuality is 'contagious' I believe you either are, or are not.

I have never really known gays, where I live, being gay is like putting a target on your head, because basically, people here HATE you if your Gay. Now, granted, they won't kill you or anything, but your in for a beating if you show it too much here. I grew up being told homosexuality is wrong, and I believe it is, religiously, but I also know hating them is wrong for me, religiously. In my lifetime, I have known their are about 3 people at our school that are gay (and open) I am not sure how many would be in the closet, but if they are, good for them. Quite frankly, I don't care.
 
Not sure why this is a right issues. It was the left who passed this act.

And it is only because of the right that it was ever enacted as a compromise and can't be retired asap.

It is because of the right that we waste $52,000 to remove every gay from the military.

The left would be happy to save that money and just let gays risk their lives to protect the nation.
 
Because they're scared of "the gay" infecting the military and turning them into a less effective fighting force.

Remember......fear and oppression costs money.

Once admitted and/or discovered, gays were still separated or discharged, so the cost involved of shipping them home would have been the same.

Wrong. I worked in Personnel for 20 years (also held a lot of collateral duties as well, but that's not important here).

Not only is there the cost of separating them and sending them to their home of record (as listed on their enlistment contract for that hitch), but there is also the cost of the JAG board, the reviews up in Washington as well as the psychologist exam (required), as well as the cost of getting a brand new person in to fill the billet that was just vacated early by the gay servicemember.

In the Navy, there is a thing called an "EPAD" which stands for Enlisted Personnel Action Document. That lists everyone in the command, as well as those that are slated to report in the next 3 months. It also has a section that lists everyone that is due to leave either via rotation to next duty station or EAOS (Expiration of Active Obligated Service).

Now, the number of people in a command, as well as the various billets they serve (critical or non critical with critical meaning the command cannot deploy without a critical billet being filled), are decided up at Washington, and that is also how the military decides what it's quota requirements are going to be for enlistment purposes (also worked in recruiting at a MEPS for 2 1/2 years), which is how they decide how many HM's, MS's, or any other job specialty they will need for that year.

If a person leaves early, that means their billet must be filled within 6 months for a non critical billet and immediately for a critical billet, so yeah.......there's a lot more money involved than just sending someone home early with travel pay.

As far as should gays serve openly or not? Why the fuck not? They've been serving in the military since 1983 as far as I've been able to figure out, and many of them were better military personnel than most straights. How do I know this? Because I had to prepare Navy Wide Advancement Exams for the command every year, and that meant counting their personal awards (Good Conduct, Navy Achievement Medal, etc) for points, as well as averaging out their evaluations for the past 3 years to put on their work sheets, as that was part of their final exam score.

And yeah.........I knew pretty much who was and wasn't gay in my command. Why? Because people trusted me with a lot of stuff, because they knew I wouldn't sell them out to the command.

Know what the best kind of dude to go running around overseas is? That's right.....a gay man, because women FLOCK to them, and if you're their friend, they'll send the women over your way, because it's hard to get a relationship going with a woman in 3-7 days, with them knowing you may never come back.

European women generally take 3-6 months before they'll have sex with you, unless you're in Ibiza or Palma during holiday season.
 
Know what the best kind of dude to go running around overseas is? That's right.....a gay man, because women FLOCK to them, and if you're their friend, they'll send the women over your way, because it's hard to get a relationship going with a woman in 3-7 days, with them knowing you may never come back.

European women generally take 3-6 months before they'll have sex with you, unless you're in Ibiza or Palma during holiday season.

Biker, you are my hero lol. I hope their is someone in the service with me like you, we can gauge women haha, sorry, you just got me laughing a lot. Thanks for the service ABikerSailor, really appreciate it, and may you never find out how many children you have outside of the US haha, just kidding.
 

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