UN Sanctions...

[DeadCanDance]

Originally Posted by GunnyL View Post


Seems to me twas you who said Iran ALREADY was complying and there was no evidence of a nuclear weapons program.

I never had you pegged for a dishonest liar.

Do a search. I have multiple posts that say Iran was complying to a large degree, but they still hadn't made any of their past activities transparent to IAEA....including past nuclear weapons research.

Here you go. Now's the opportunity for you to step up like a man, and admit your assertion was false.

DeadCanDance:

Iran has been subjected to sanctions because they haven't made their nuclear program transparent enough to satisfy international observers.

If you have proof they are current building a bomb, please provide it.

http://usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=620392&postcount=128

As for me, I've heard no evidence of an imminent threat, and at this point I think we need to apply pressure and diplomacy on Iran, to make their nuclear activities more transparent to international inspection. Nuclear proliferation is most certainly an area of deep concern, but you have not made a credible case for war.

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=618543&highlight=transparent#post618543

The issue is transparency. IAEA is able to confirm certain aspects of the Iranian nuclear program, but there are still outstanding issues in terms of inspections and transparancy. These are technical matters that have to be worked out - it does NOT mean neccessarily that Iran has a bomb, is building a bomb, or is even close to having the capacity to produce weapons grade uranium.

Its definetly a problem. IAEA needs to be assured that all aspects of the iranian civilian nuclear program is transparent to international inspections, and that no declared material is diverted into a weapons program.

http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?p=612604&highlight=transparent#post612604

-Iran's cooperation has been mixed. Generally, Iran has provided sufficient and timely cooperation with IAEA inspectors. IAEA notes however, that the cooperation is reactive, and not proactive.

-A couple of outstanding issues remain, which IAEA seeks to address with Iran in the next few weeks. Having to do with increasing transparency of the entire scope and history of the iranian nuclear program. One, is if there is, or ever has been, alleged studies or research Iran has done with regard to nuclear weaponry. And two, IAEA needs further corroborations with regard to the P-1 and P-2 centrifuges and current enrichment activities, to build more confidence that there is complete tranparency and so that IAEA can determine that the program is completely civilian in nature, and there are no activites that could have military implications.

 

[Gunny]

What would YOU know about being a man?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=51442

Only two adversaries of the United States have ever developed the technical capacity for a viable delivery system (i.e., ICBM) capable of hitting the united states. USSR and China. A nuclear delivery system of that capacity is an extremly complex and costly technical problem. Even if Iran wanted to make ICBMs capable of suborbital flight - missles that could circumvent the planet - to hit us on the other side of the world, they are many, many years, perhaps decades away, from making that happen.

Okay, so Iran could probably never hit us with nuclear-tipped ICBMs in your lifetime. Wouldn't they just give their nuke to al qaeda, you ask? Don't make me laugh. The Shia government of Iran is not about to hand their nukes over to enemies of the state. The fundamentalist sunnis of al qaeda would just as soon cut a persian Shia's head off, as spit on his grave. I give the iranians more credit for not being stupid, than you.

That leaves us with prioritizing the problem. In my view, Iran enriching uranium is only a problem if it can be verified that they intend to have nuclear weapons-grade uranium. A good reason to keep pressure on them to comply with all IAEA requests and inspections. As far as enriching civilian-grade uranium - even President Bush says they have a right to civilian nuclear power. That is enshrined in international law. So, in terms of priorities, while cons are shitting their diapers over iran, the real potential of a nuclear attack on us comes from blackmarket uranium from the poorly guarded stockpiles of the former soviet union. And guess what? When bush came into office he downgraded the US government assistance to the eastern bloc to secure their stockpiles, and now Bush is talking about cutting port security for the United States.
Only two adversaries of the United States have ever developed the technical capacity for a viable delivery system (i.e., ICBM) capable of hitting the united states. USSR and China. A nuclear delivery system of that capacity is an extremly complex and costly technical problem. Even if Iran wanted to make ICBMs capable of suborbital flight - missles that could circumvent the planet - to hit us on the other side of the world, they are many, many years, perhaps decades away, from making that happen.

Okay, so Iran could probably never hit us with nuclear-tipped ICBMs in your lifetime. Wouldn't they just give their nuke to al qaeda, you ask? Don't make me laugh. The Shia government of Iran is not about to hand their nukes over to enemies of the state. The fundamentalist sunnis of al qaeda would just as soon cut a persian Shia's head off, as spit on his grave. I give the iranians more credit for not being stupid, than you.


That leaves us with prioritizing the problem. In my view, Iran enriching uranium is only a problem if it can be verified that they intend to have nuclear weapons-grade uranium. A good reason to keep pressure on them to comply with all IAEA requests and inspections. As far as enriching civilian-grade uranium - even President Bush says they have a right to civilian nuclear power. That is enshrined in international law. So, in terms of priorities, while cons are shitting their diapers over iran, the real potential of a nuclear attack on us comes from blackmarket uranium from the poorly guarded stockpiles of the former soviet union. And guess what? When bush came into office he downgraded the US government assistance to the eastern bloc to secure their stockpiles, and now Bush is talking about cutting port security for the United States.

Your words. DO note the bolded ones.

 

[Larkinn]

oh G-d...not another one....

try characterizing Israel properly.

If you are objective at all, you will recognize that moral clarity is lacking in this case and that BOTH have done immoral acts.

Israel and Hamas are both characterized dishonestly by both sides of the aisle.

 

[Gunny]

Here you go. Now's the opportunity for you to step up like a man, and admit your assertion was false.

This post would come from the same thread in my previous post ... both of your posts are on page 1 btw. I didn't have to go further.

I see. You have no comment on the misdirected priorities of your president.

I will assume therefore, that you see Iran - a nation for which there is no evidence of weaponized uranium, or nuclear delivery platforms - as a greater threat and worthy of more posts, than the actual and real threat of existing and real enriched weapons-grade uranium that has made its way onto the black markets from the former soviet states. A problem that bush and his followers have either downgraded or ignored.


Can we get a new president now?

 

[Alpha1]

Here you go. Now's the opportunity for you to step up like a man, and admit your assertion was false.

and admit your assertion was false. ???????????????????

I'd say the Gunny was pretty correct in his conclusions....

Digging up your own posts....shows if we give you enough rope you will hang yourself....

 

[Larkinn]

Well sort of but not really ....

Israel is a parliamentary democracy.

Oh, well cheers. That makes all of their actions ok, right? By the way the PA isn't really a state but please remember that Hamas were the ones who got voted in, but are somehow illegitimate according to Israel. Why can't they respect democracy?

The land that currently comprises Israel was given to the Jews by the Balfour Agreement in 1925 when Palestine was a British mandate as a result of the Ottoman Empire getting its ass kicked in WW I.

Are you talking about the Balfour Declaration? And no, the land was not given to the Jews until the mid 1940's.

The US actually initially opposed the Jews actually taking posession of Israel in 1949. The Jews did it without anyone's help.

Oh, well cheers. That makes it all ok.

Iran supports a known international terrorist organization bent on genocide, and uses a war of terror indiscriminately against all Jews -- men, women and children.

So care to tell me why the Jews in Arab states aren't targeted for murder? Oh right...because its NOT genocide and its NOT against all Jews. Its against the state of Israel and all of its inhabitants.

It is quite easy to justify the US supporting a democratic nation while opposing a nation that supports an organization of murdering thugs. It's called doing the right thing.

And its quite easy to justify Iran supporting a group of freedom fighters against an apartheid terrorist state. As I said before, isn't narrative fun?

 

[Gunny]

By WARREN HOGE and ELAINE SCIOLINO
Published: March 4, 2008

UNITED NATIONS — The Security Council on Monday adopted its third resolution imposing sanctions on Iran for its refusal to cease enriching uranium, an activity that the West suspects Iran may be using to create fuel for a nuclear weapon.

The previous two measures gained the unanimous support of the 15-member panel, but in balloting on Monday Indonesia abstained, saying it “remained to be convinced of the efficacy of adopting additional sanctions at this juncture.” Fourteen countries voted in favor.

The resolution authorizes inspections of cargo to and from Iran that is suspected of carrying prohibited equipment, tightens the monitoring of Iranian financial institutions and extends travel bans and asset freezes against persons and companies involved in the nuclear program.

It adds 13 names to the existing list of 5 individuals and 12 companies subject to travel and asset restrictions. The new names include people with direct responsibility for building fast-spinning centrifuges that enrich uranium ore and a brigadier general engaged in “efforts to get around the sanctions” in the two earlier resolutions.

Enriched uranium is used to power nuclear reactors for civilian use. But highly enriched uranium can be used as fuel for a nuclear weapon. The new measure also bans all trade and supply of so-called dual-use items, materials and technologies that can be adapted for military as well as civilian ends.

more ... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/w...bbfe544a163841&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I somehow don't see Iran cooperating with the UN. Just my opinion.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Both sides (Palestinians and Jews)....

What about the Muslims and the Israelis?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The US should butt out. We've kept Israel from just going ahead and ending this bullshit since the 70s.

There's a time to negotiate and there's a time to hunt down rabid dogs and shoot them where found. It's WAY past time for the latter

Agree there -- I have no problem with letting the Israelis off the leash.

 

[jreeves]

For the same reason that Iran should stay out, I suppose. It only seems fair. If we are involved then we have no basis on which to complain if Iran gets involved or if other nations want to participate in this war. This has noting to do with UN's non-nuclear proliferation, does it?

We give money to both sides, so why couldn't we properly negotiate with both. I don't see Iran giving money to Israel, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh, well cheers. That makes all of their actions ok, right? By the way the PA isn't really a state but please remember that Hamas were the ones who got voted in, but are somehow illegitimate according to Israel. Why can't they respect democracy?



Are you talking about the Balfour Declaration? And no, the land was not given to the Jews until the mid 1940's.



Oh, well cheers. That makes it all ok.



So care to tell me why the Jews in Arab states aren't targeted for murder? Oh right...because its NOT genocide and its NOT against all Jews. Its against the state of Israel and all of its inhabitants.



And its quite easy to justify Iran supporting a group of freedom fighters against an apartheid terrorist state. As I said before, isn't narrative fun?

Hamas only won a portion of the vote. And then made themselves illegitimate by seizing territory from the rightful government. You know, open rebellion? They murdered elected Government officials and killed members of the proper government police force will illegally seizing the territory.

Wrong about Balifor, in 1923 I believe the British through the League of Nations agreed to partition the land.

SO few jews in 'arab' states exist that even when they are murdered it is not reported. As for Muslim states, Iran has recently been arresting and imprisoning jews for little to no reason. And Jews do not live in Palestine except in heavily armed and guarded communities because THEY are attacked.

Perhaps you missed the part where terrorists indiscrimantly fire rockets into population centers, where they set off suicide bombs in crowded markets, stores, business and even kill children in schools? Perhaps you missed the part where they kidnap people and murder them?

And then we have your ignorant claim of Aparteid. Simply not true. Arab Israelis have ALL the rights and power of Jewish Israeli citizens, IN fact they have special treatment, they are allowed to opt out of compulsory military service so they do not have to worry about having to kill other Arabs. Arab Isreali citizens serve in every walk of life in Israel, including the Government and the elected Government.

For someone that claims to be so smart and so carefu in what they say and write, this sure takes the cake.