UN Role

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Diana, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Diana
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    Diana Guest

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    Why can’t the UN work to stop human suffering and to promote human freedom. Are we not all people of one planet? Maybe we need to stop looking at ourselves as separate people and see ourselves as one. Maybe the UN should be the Police to all who choose to be leaders or are placed in leadership, of any single nation. And if one of those leaders or groups of leaders chooses not to treat its people fairly and justly then it should be the UN to remove them from power. Maybe the idea is not to say it’s not our problem or our job to change or remove a criminal leader from power. Maybe it is exactly, all of our jobs, as one, to do so. Is that not what we should be evolving into?



    As an individual in a just society I would not be allowed to kill, rape, torture, steal land from, or repress my neighbor. Why as a global body, do we sit back and say without reservation that the way to peace is to do nothing? That the way to peace is to say it’s not my problem, or my fight. Why should we sit back and say they should take care of a criminal leader themselves. Are we not all here to be one people? Should we not all look after one another? Is that not the way to true and lasting PEACE. Maybe the UN needs to be a body that says, “You as a leader are stealing land from your neighbor, and You as a leader are repressing your people. As a body for this planet, we will come together and say no to you and, if necessary, stop you from criminal acts on your neighbors and your people.”
     
  2. jon_forward
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    jon_forward Active Member

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    At one time I believe that was the stated goal of the U.N.... However, when the body of countries that make up the U.N. cant or wont get together on a problem country because of their VESTED interest in said problem country herein lies the problem. I agree that it is High time that all countrys joined the HUMAN race...for wether or not they want to believe it we are in this together....when a country crosses its neighbors line...they should know that when they do so they not only cross the neighbors line but a GLOBAL one as well. and action should come swiftly...not so fast as to not give the agressor the time to withdraw...whatever the time frame...but swift and sure....not as the case of Iraq...12 years and nothing but thumbing the nose. Sadly it probably wont happen in my lifetime but Global Peace I pray for every night....
     
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    BTW,,,, Welcome to the board!!!!!:clap: :clap:
     
  4. MeSSeNJa
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    My heart jumps every time I hear something like that. This is why...

    In the book of Revelation (in the bible for all of you others) a one world government is propped up by a man defined as the Anti-Christ. The population of the world is cut into 1/20th of it's original by plague, war, and lack of necessities. This is done by uniting all countries in to one large conglomerate by a dictator. Imagine the entire world...owned and controlled by ONE man. I know what you're thinking and NO it's NOT President Bush.

    When I hear about a one world government and I see all of these points trying to be made about how we should all accept everyone since we're all the same anyway...I can't help but think of that.

    Think of what it might be like as one society. Everyone would be "equal", nobody would be better at anything than anyone else, it would be a big mess full of hypocritical polytheistic politically correct European-style crazy communists!

    The great thing about America is that you have the opportunity to be better than someone who is not the same as you. It is possible to earn more money, voice speech and debate, and raise moral values to their highest and most respectable level. Those ideals you stated are not entirely bad...yet I fear for the ideals that this country stands upon.

    When Bush stated in the State of the Union that "We will not seek a permission slip to defend the United States of America" he meant that we will never give in to international pressure in exchange for the protection of our sovereign state.

    I prithy, think about what a "One-world government" would REALLY be like.
     
  5. Diana
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    I'm sorry you misunderstood. Not one goverment, not one man, not one world goverment.
     
  6. wonderwench
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    That is a completely unreasonable goal. A world government would have no power to stop criminal acts. Rogue, criminal regimes do not respect authority - just as individual criminals do not respect domestic laws.
     
  7. Comrade
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    Comrade Senior Member

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    Why can’t the UN work to stop human suffering and to promote human freedom?


    --- Because the freedom-abhoring leaders and their delegates acting under their authority dominate the proceedings and act as a majority and will always vote as a block to perpetuate their rule.


    "Are we not all people of one planet? Maybe we need to stop looking at ourselves as separate people and see ourselves as one."


    --- John Lennon wrote a song about that but in the end he was murdered by a deranged human.


    Maybe the UN should be the Police to all who choose to be leaders and are placed in leadership, of any single nation.


    --- How can they choose to be leaders by being placed under leadership?


    And if one of those leaders or groups of leaders chooses not to treat its people fairly and justly then it should be the UN to remove them from power.


    --- Well that’s been the policy. Two problems:

    1. "Fair" is a fast and loose political concept, impossible to arrive at universally. There is a point where someone with POWER decides what is "Fair". That's that.

    2. And actual countries must field armies to do anything the UN might "pass", and despite the countless “resolutions” passed under its supervision absolutely nothing has changed without this sort of backing. The USA has always provided the vast majority of any such real action, and it’s non-participation in any resolution means it usually falls dead on its face. Or else someone opposes the US and hides behind the UN, until the US gets tired of the game.


    In the real politic sense, this is zero change to the power equation and UN “legality” is a farce, and always will be.


    "Maybe the idea is not to say it’s not our problem or our job to
    change or remove a criminal leader from power. Maybe it is exactly, all of our jobs, as one, to do so. Is that not what we should be evolving into?"


    Well if it’s not “our job” but everyone’s then I assume you have a monstrous totalitarian framework set up to execute it. Otherwise you might have disagreements with how and why the job must be done? And then who's gonna do it?


    Anyway, there is so many obstacles to such a UN and really it's a good thing:

    1. You need a real machine of war under a body of “executives”, with the power to depose any combination of nations who might ally against the UN.

    2. You have to convince the strongest of these nations to yield all current advantage to this "fair" group of decision makers. Or else you got nothing and remain our beloved UN.

    3. Also complicating things are the democracies whose sovereignty would be usurped by a world body, so the people are pissed. But who are you going to ask for their army, China?

    4. Should such authority be fully established, the remaining threat to its "golden rule" would be the still-powerful countries who could be troublesome in “deposing” should the UN decide it prudent.

    5. Therefore those countries must be targeted for destruction and restructuring under the UN, or else the UN will not last.


    Democracies destroyed, shadowy cabal of UN authority figures established. Game over.
     
  8. Diana
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    I first wrote this message when we (America) were trying to get UN backing for the latest war in Iraq and subsequently posted it here. Granted, it’s idealistic. I didn’t expect it to be taken as anything more than a call for supposedly civilized nations to put aside their own greedy interests for the greater good: getting rid of a terrible dictator who has threatened/invaded his neighbors, murdered/oppressed his own citizens, and ignored the will of the rest of the world as represented by the U.N. To me the issue wasn’t just weapons of mass destruction though that was a major concern, since we knew Iraq had them at one time and never gave satisfactory evidence of their destruction/disposal. The other issue was Hussein’s total disregard for human life.

    --- John Lennon wrote a song about that but in the end he was murdered by a deranged human

    So, we should let deranged humans stop us from being good to one another? The name of the song wasn’t “Imagine” for nothing. I’m not naive enough to believe that the U.N will ever be able to wield enough influence to create a world that will “be as one” but, I think the U.N. IS falling well short of its potential.

    --- How can they choose to be leaders by being placed under leadership?

    It’s not that they’re placed under leadership… Sovereign nations should and mostly do choose their own leaders. It’s a question of whether or not the U.N. will ever strive to be what it set out to be. The U.N. has no credibility when it condemns the acts of a rogue leader/state, passes resolution after resolution, and then as a body attempts to block the efforts of a member nation to enforce those resolutions.

    --- And actual countries must field armies to do anything the UN might "pass", and despite the countless “resolutions” passed under its supervision absolutely nothing has changed without this sort of backing. The USA has always provided the vast majority of any such real action, and it’s non-participation in any resolution means it usually falls dead on its face. Or else someone opposes the US and hides behind the UN, until the US gets tired of the game.

    I agree completely. Historically it’s because of the will and material support of the U.S. that real action has been taken. I’m not talking about the U.N. becoming a world government, fielding it’s own armies. I’m talking about the U.N. being the facilitator to “police” the dangerous leaders/nations. It’s the forum for consensus on whether action should be taken. When a resolution is agreed and passed the member states shouldn’t be surprised by or opposed to another member state taking action to enforce the resolution.

    ---Well if it’s not “our job” but everyone’s then I assume you have a monstrous totalitarian framework set up to execute it. Otherwise you might have disagreements with how and why the job must be done? And then who's gonna do it?

    Yes. And I’ll be the boss. (Just kidding MeSSeNJa) As you pointed out, the U.N. is a form of representative world government that hasn’t got the muscle to impose its will. Each nation sends its representative and naturally there are disagreements. Despite these disagreements resolutions are passed. As you also pointed out, nothing happens until one member nation (usually the U.S.) takes action. I guess what I should have said is it SHOULD be everyone’s job, in an ideal world. Of course, you’ll never achieve an ideal world without an idealistic thought.
     
  9. eric
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    eric Guest

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    Excellent post Diana, sorry I did not see your posts before, but welcome to the board ! :)

    Also let me thank you for the sacrifice you and your husband are making for us all !
     

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