Ukrainian Navy consciously ignored orders to stop?

[longknife]

There’s always another side to the story.

The FSB (Federal Security Service) has claimed in a statement that the naval standoff in Crimean waters was a “provocative act of the Ukrainian Navy executed upon direct orders by the government in Kiev.” The clash took place on Sunday in the Kerch Strait, which connects mainland Russia and the Crimean peninsula. It involved Ukrainian ships and Russian coast guard vessels.

And they add that two officers from the Ukrainian Security Service, or SBU, were embedded with the intruder ships to coordinate the incursion.

More @ Kerch Strait standoff: Ukrainian Navy consciously ignored orders to stop, FSB says

 

[Natural Citizen]

I read about this when the story broke. I think it was a setup.

 

[Stratford57]

Ukraine is desperate because International Monetary Fund stopped transferring money to Ukraine and they badly need a conflict to attract sympathy from the West and possibly money+weapons. Besides there will be presidential elections in March and Poroshenko's rating is 7% (martial law he's just announced may cancel presidential elections and save his crooked butt). Mean while post-coup Ukraine is without gas, without money, without heat in radiators, without medical assistance, without education.

Nov, 17, former deputy head of the Main Headquarters of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Igor Romanenko:
It is necessary to sharpen and transfigure the situation into a large-scale war. In this situation, Ukraine will be able to count on the help of the West in diplomatic and economic formats. And if the conflict is aggravated, then we will be more actively helped with weapons - not in the way it is now.

https: //apostrophe.ua/article/society/accidents/2018-11-17/mejdu-ukrainoy-i-rossiey-zagoraetsya-tretiy-ochag-est-opasnost-bolshoy-voynyi/22103
^ I added a space to the name of the link because it's a Ukrainian site and contains banned [on our forum] letters.

RAW: Coast Guard traces Ukrainian vessels after breach of Russian waters

Ukrainian vessels heading to Kerch Strait from Azov Sea on way to their port – FSB

All three Ukrainian Navy vessels that violated Russia’s border detained in Black Sea

P.S. Ukrainian officials have been under total control from Deep State for the last 5 years, they can't even fart without a permission from Washington. The question is: do American taxpayers want to help Deep State who is using Ukraine as a pawn in its dirty geopolitical games? Especially just 5 days before Trump/Putin meeting in Argentina.

Putin, Trump to hold substantive meeting at G20 in Argentina – Kremlin aide

 

[ESay]

Of course they conclusiously ignored orders to stop. Otherwise, there wouldnt have been any reason to do all of that.

 

[anotherlife]

The Sunzu Art of War book states that you can defeat a much larger enemy by applying small random irritating movements of your smaller forces. But I don't think that the Ukraine can pull that off.

 

[anotherlife]

Also, the Ukrainian churches were moved out of the jurisdiction of the Russian patriarch a couple of days ago. That may have contributed to the situation because that made Putin angry. Interesting for s church that it has to care so much about national boundaries. Shouldn't a church know that the kingdom of Christ is above all nations?

 

[BlackFlag]

How dare we question Russia? Or that Saudi guy? These fucking liberals need to learn to bend the knee.

 

[Stratford57]

Also, the Ukrainian churches were moved out of the jurisdiction of the Russian patriarch a couple of days ago. That may have contributed to the situation because that made Putin angry. Interesting for s church that it has to care so much about national boundaries. Shouldn't a church know that the kingdom of Christ is above all nations?

It made angry millions of believers in Ukraine, the ones who attend canonic Orthodox church. The reasons Poroshenko and his Deep State bosses are pushing for non-canonic church are: easy brainwashing of Ukrainian population, especially the youngsters, tearing us from our brothers Russians even more.

The rector of the Dormition Church in Bluefield (USA, WV), priest Mark Tyson left Constantinople Patriarchate and joined the Russian Orthodox Church abroad (ROCOR) in solidarity with the canonical Orthodox Church of Ukraine. Fr. Mark doesn’t have ANY Russian roots, however he speaks very good Russian.

The Patriarch of Constantinople recently joined himself to a schismatic church group that engages in sacrilegious activities, and he claimed to remove the Ukrainian Church from Russian Orthodox Church authority. Thus the churches in Constantinople and Moscow are now in schism with one another. For these reasons, Fr. Mark has turned his back on Constantinople.
In the US, the priest left the Patriarchate of Constantinople as a sign of solidarity with the canonical Church in Ukraine

Fr. Mark says that “the immoral and non-canonical actions of Patriarch Bartholomew in Ukraine have already contributed to violence against the canonical Church,” and this violence will continue to grow.

He says that Philaret’s schismatic church group in Ukraine is not a legitimate church:

“The Church’s civil war unfolds before our eyes . . . and our patriarch [Bartholomew] has given his official approval. This new and independent “Church” that he created consists of idolaters. They worship the Holy Trinity and a false God called “free Ukraine”

“I have served the last liturgy there and will no longer honor Patriarch Bartholomew; my conscience will simply not allow it. . . . I decided to simply, but firmly . . . unite in communion with the suffering Ukrainian church, which was marginalized by the incomprehensible actions of Patriarch Bartholomew.”
Orthodox Priest Abandons Patriarch of Constantinople, Joins Russian Church ⋆ Russophile

 

[Natural Citizen]

The video they're passing around is from March.

 

[anotherlife]

Also, the Ukrainian churches were moved out of the jurisdiction of the Russian patriarch a couple of days ago. That may have contributed to the situation because that made Putin angry. Interesting for s church that it has to care so much about national boundaries. Shouldn't a church know that the kingdom of Christ is above all nations?

It made angry millions of believers in Ukraine, the ones who attend canonic Orthodox church. The reasons Poroshenko and his Deep State bosses are pushing for non-canonic church are: easy brainwashing of Ukrainian population, especially the youngsters, tearing us from our brothers Russians even more.

The rector of the Dormition Church in Bluefield (USA, WV), priest Mark Tyson left Constantinople Patriarchate and joined the Russian Orthodox Church abroad (ROCOR) in solidarity with the canonical Orthodox Church of Ukraine. Fr. Mark doesn’t have ANY Russian roots, however he speaks very good Russian.

The Patriarch of Constantinople recently joined himself to a schismatic church group that engages in sacrilegious activities, and he claimed to remove the Ukrainian Church from Russian Orthodox Church authority. Thus the churches in Constantinople and Moscow are now in schism with one another. For these reasons, Fr. Mark has turned his back on Constantinople.
In the US, the priest left the Patriarchate of Constantinople as a sign of solidarity with the canonical Church in Ukraine

Fr. Mark says that “the immoral and non-canonical actions of Patriarch Bartholomew in Ukraine have already contributed to violence against the canonical Church,” and this violence will continue to grow.

He says that Philaret’s schismatic church group in Ukraine is not a legitimate church:

“The Church’s civil war unfolds before our eyes . . . and our patriarch [Bartholomew] has given his official approval. This new and independent “Church” that he created consists of idolaters. They worship the Holy Trinity and a false God called “free Ukraine”

“I have served the last liturgy there and will no longer honor Patriarch Bartholomew; my conscience will simply not allow it. . . . I decided to simply, but firmly . . . unite in communion with the suffering Ukrainian church, which was marginalized by the incomprehensible actions of Patriarch Bartholomew.”
Orthodox Priest Abandons Patriarch of Constantinople, Joins Russian Church ⋆ Russophile

Looks like the devil too works in mysterious ways.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There’s always another side to the story.

The FSB (Federal Security Service) has claimed in a statement that the naval standoff in Crimean waters was a “provocative act of the Ukrainian Navy executed upon direct orders by the government in Kiev.” The clash took place on Sunday in the Kerch Strait, which connects mainland Russia and the Crimean peninsula. It involved Ukrainian ships and Russian coast guard vessels.

And they add that two officers from the Ukrainian Security Service, or SBU, were embedded with the intruder ships to coordinate the incursion.

More @ Kerch Strait standoff: Ukrainian Navy consciously ignored orders to stop, FSB says

Wait, orders to stop in water where there's a treaty that says they can be there.....

 

[fncceo]

How much of a navy can they have? The Ukraine is bordered on the south by the Black Sea. To get to any proper ocean, you have to negotiate two very narrow straits, the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles.

 

[Stratford57]

How much of a navy can they have? The Ukraine is bordered on the south by the Black Sea. To get to any proper ocean, you have to negotiate two very narrow straits, the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles.

As far as I know 3 ships detained by Russia were one third of Ukrainian Navy.

If anybody's interested yesterday Putin has commented Ukrainian provocation in Black see yesterday. It's a bit long but worth of reading.

Vladimir Putin: As concerns the incident in the Black Sea, it was obviously a provocation organised by the current officials – I think, by the incumbent president, ahead of the presidential election in Ukraine to be held next March.

The current president is, I think, fifth in the popularity rating and there is a chance he may not make it into the second round. Therefore, he needs to do something to escalate the situation and create unsurpassable obstacles for his rivals, especially in the opposition.

Why do I think so and why am I even certain that this is the case? Look, there was an incident (I will speak about it in a minute) in the Black Sea. But it is a border incident, nothing more. What happened in 2014 when Crimea decided to join Russia? That was a different story, a big one.

What about the painful civil war in southeastern Ukraine, in Donbass, in the Lugansk region, when government forces deployed tanks and heavy artillery, even aviation? It was a war while no martial law was declared.

Now, a small Black Sea incident resulted in martial law. This is clearly a measure taken because of the presidential election. It is absolutely obvious.

Now regarding this incident, or provocation, to be exact. Certainly, this is a provocation. Look, last September roughly the same convoy of Ukrainian military ships passed through the Kerch Strait under the Kerch Bridge to the Sea of Azov.

They fully complied with all agreements and requirements, informing the border guards about what ships made up the convoy, who they were and where they were going. We provided them with a pilotage service and quietly led them to their destination in the Sea of Azov.

What happened this time? They did not respond to our border guard’s requests. They entered our territorial waters. I would like you to note that they entered our territorial waters which were ours before Crimea became part of the Russian Federation. That is, they entered the waters which have always been Russian territorial waters.

Without responding to our border guards, they proceeded to move towards the [Kerch] Bridge. Neither did they respond to our proposal to moor the ships at the marina. Our proposal to take a pilot – even after the violation of our state border they, nevertheless, were offered to take a pilot – was met with silence, there was no reaction whatsoever.

What should border guards do in a situation like this? Military ships had entered Russian territorial waters and were not responding to our border guards and it was unclear what they were going to do. What did the border guards have to do? Had they acted differently, all of them would have been put on trial. They were fulfilling their military duty, the order they were given and, as things stand, they were fulfilling their legitimate functions to protect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

I believe that the same would have been done in any other country, it is absolutely clear. Also, it was discovered that two Ukrainian Security Service officers were among the crew members and, in fact, were in charge of this special operation. They have acknowledged they were Ukrainian Security Service officers. These are clear signs of a provocation that had been planned in advance so it could be used as a pretext for introducing martial law in the country.

This has nothing to do with the efforts being taken to put relations between Russia and Ukraine back on track. This is a game to exacerbate tension, this is an immoral game that is being played in the country in order to neutralise someone’s political opponents.

In fact, I have already got used to many things but today’s Kiev authorities…They have succeeded in selling anti-Russia sentiments and they have nothing else to sell. It seems that no matter what they do, they always get away with it. If they ask to be given infants for breakfast they will probably have them served. Well, we will be told, they want to eat and that is it.

This is a very short-sighted policy. It will not lead to good things because it tends to unnerve today’s Ukrainian leadership in a way that it does not urge them to get down to normal political work within the country and start pursuing normal economic policy.

They have economic problems in addition to social and financial problems and they never stop to beg, asking the International Monetary Fund to give them money. But these are the future generations who will have to pay this money back. As for their work to promote cooperation with their neighbours, there is nothing good to speak about.

Russia Calling! Investment Forum

 

[Baron]

The question is: do American taxpayers want to help Deep State who is using Ukraine as a pawn in its dirty geopolitical games?

American taxpayers are dumb and gullible, believe MS presstitutes.

 

[anotherlife]

The question is: do American taxpayers want to help Deep State who is using Ukraine as a pawn in its dirty geopolitical games?

American taxpayers are dumb and gullible, believe MS presstitutes.

You think American taxpayers are stupid? Take a trip to Europe.

 

[Stratford57]

NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that," Gabriel said.

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.
"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"
Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
---
Dec 1, Vladimir Putin on Kerch incident: the ship’s log journal says these ships had the explicit task of secretly penetrating our territorial waters and secretly passing the Kerch Strait? What was it? It was a planned provocation, that’s what it was. This is evidenced by the documents found and the testimony of the sailors themselves. That's all.

But, what’s even worse, Ukrainian officials introduced martial law in ten areas, precisely those where the incumbent president does not enjoy special support and his policy does not find unanimous approval. What does this mean? Just think: this means that the current leadership of Ukraine has with its own hands divided the country in two parts – one trustworthy and the other not so much. I can’t even imagine a worse mistake.

What especially troubles me is that analysis of recent events, this incident or the provocation in the Black Sea, or what we see in Donbass, suggests that the current leadership of Ukraine is actually not interested in resolving this crisis, let alone by peaceful means. They are a party of war, and while they remain in power, all these tragedies and the war will continue. Why? Because during any kind of hostilities, with provocations similar to the one in the Black Sea, it is always easier for oligarchic authorities to pursue a policy aimed at plundering their own people and their state. This is the case when the situation both in our country and in Ukraine can be described by this proverb: “War makes some people rich”. This is the first reason why the current government is not interested in a peaceful settlement.

And here is the second. War helps cover up their failures in economic and social policy. They are not the ones to blame – it is the external aggressor who is. The external aggressor is to blame for the impoverishment of people, and for the state budget that can’t seem to make ends meet, so that Ukraine is compelled to go, hat in hand, to the IMF and other sponsors, shifting the responsibility and burden to future generations. It is much easier to blame everything on external aggression.
Answers to media questions

 

[anotherlife]

NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that," Gabriel said.

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.
"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"
Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
---
Dec 1, Vladimir Putin on Kerch incident: the ship’s log journal says these ships had the explicit task of secretly penetrating our territorial waters and secretly passing the Kerch Strait? What was it? It was a planned provocation, that’s what it was. This is evidenced by the documents found and the testimony of the sailors themselves. That's all.

But, what’s even worse, Ukrainian officials introduced martial law in ten areas, precisely those where the incumbent president does not enjoy special support and his policy does not find unanimous approval. What does this mean? Just think: this means that the current leadership of Ukraine has with its own hands divided the country in two parts – one trustworthy and the other not so much. I can’t even imagine a worse mistake.

What especially troubles me is that analysis of recent events, this incident or the provocation in the Black Sea, or what we see in Donbass, suggests that the current leadership of Ukraine is actually not interested in resolving this crisis, let alone by peaceful means. They are a party of war, and while they remain in power, all these tragedies and the war will continue. Why? Because during any kind of hostilities, with provocations similar to the one in the Black Sea, it is always easier for oligarchic authorities to pursue a policy aimed at plundering their own people and their state. This is the case when the situation both in our country and in Ukraine can be described by this proverb: “War makes some people rich”. This is the first reason why the current government is not interested in a peaceful settlement.

And here is the second. War helps cover up their failures in economic and social policy. They are not the ones to blame – it is the external aggressor who is. The external aggressor is to blame for the impoverishment of people, and for the state budget that can’t seem to make ends meet, so that Ukraine is compelled to go, hat in hand, to the IMF and other sponsors, shifting the responsibility and burden to future generations. It is much easier to blame everything on external aggression.
Answers to media questions

This can be true to every European nation state. Only now the Ukraine is the most obvious for it. But for example, France is not interested in a peaceful Europe either.

 

[Eugene]

NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that," Gabriel said.

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.
"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"
Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International
---
Dec 1, Vladimir Putin on Kerch incident: the ship’s log journal says these ships had the explicit task of secretly penetrating our territorial waters and secretly passing the Kerch Strait? What was it? It was a planned provocation, that’s what it was. This is evidenced by the documents found and the testimony of the sailors themselves. That's all.

But, what’s even worse, Ukrainian officials introduced martial law in ten areas, precisely those where the incumbent president does not enjoy special support and his policy does not find unanimous approval. What does this mean? Just think: this means that the current leadership of Ukraine has with its own hands divided the country in two parts – one trustworthy and the other not so much. I can’t even imagine a worse mistake.

What especially troubles me is that analysis of recent events, this incident or the provocation in the Black Sea, or what we see in Donbass, suggests that the current leadership of Ukraine is actually not interested in resolving this crisis, let alone by peaceful means. They are a party of war, and while they remain in power, all these tragedies and the war will continue. Why? Because during any kind of hostilities, with provocations similar to the one in the Black Sea, it is always easier for oligarchic authorities to pursue a policy aimed at plundering their own people and their state. This is the case when the situation both in our country and in Ukraine can be described by this proverb: “War makes some people rich”. This is the first reason why the current government is not interested in a peaceful settlement.

And here is the second. War helps cover up their failures in economic and social policy. They are not the ones to blame – it is the external aggressor who is. The external aggressor is to blame for the impoverishment of people, and for the state budget that can’t seem to make ends meet, so that Ukraine is compelled to go, hat in hand, to the IMF and other sponsors, shifting the responsibility and burden to future generations. It is much easier to blame everything on external aggression.
Answers to media questions

This can be true to every European nation state. Only now the Ukraine is the most obvious for it. But for example, France is not interested in a peaceful Europe either.

And PaltryBritain sends troops to Ukraine...for teaching ukro-nazi how to fight against civilians.
Look forward for crying mothers and wives at the island..

 

[Stratford57]

Nov,30, American Conservative, Patrick J. Buchanan, a former adviser of several American presidents:

If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free of Kiev?

Why are we letting ourselves be dragged into everyone’s quarrels from whether Transnistria had a right to secede from Moldova, to whether South Ossetia and Abkhazia had the right to break free of Georgia, when Georgia broke free of Russia?

Do the American people care a fig for these places? Are we really willing to risk war with Russia or China over who holds title to them?

Why is Ukraine’s Kerch Crisis Any of Our Business?

Seems like the world would be so much better if today's NATO, EU and USA had advisers like Patrick J. Buchanan, but they do NOT.

 

[Baron]

If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free of Kiev?.

Because Deep State says so