UK gains £20bn from European migrants

[Saigon]

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

The research by two leading migration economists at University College also reveals that Britain is uniquely successful, even more than Germany, in attracting the most highly skilled and highly educated migrants in Europe.

The study, the Fiscal Impact of Immigration to the UK, published in the Economic Journal, reveals that more than 60% of new migrants from western and southern Europe are now university graduates. The educational levels of east Europeans who come to Britain are also improving with 25% of recent arrivals having completed a degree compared with 24% of the UK-born workforce.

UK gains 20bn from European migrants UCL economists reveal UK news The Guardian

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

The research by two leading migration economists at University College also reveals that Britain is uniquely successful, even more than Germany, in attracting the most highly skilled and highly educated migrants in Europe.

The study, the Fiscal Impact of Immigration to the UK, published in the Economic Journal, reveals that more than 60% of new migrants from western and southern Europe are now university graduates. The educational levels of east Europeans who come to Britain are also improving with 25% of recent arrivals having completed a degree compared with 24% of the UK-born workforce.

UK gains 20bn from European migrants UCL economists reveal UK news The Guardian

I'll bet you keep a lot of recreational drugs in your abode, don't you professor doctor all-around world-renowned genius journalist at large published in every peer-reviewed academic journal on earth writer of 20 books madame numba tain beaucoup dinky dow Saigon? Why don't you grow up and stop making a fool of yourself? Tell uncle Tom what's wrong. Just an old-fashioned projection of lesbian man-hate? Yea, I think that's you're problem alright. So which one are you? The bull or the concubine?

 

[Rikurzhen]

What a shoddy study this is. It fails in that it constructs an economic model which isn't validated against reality. Here's a glaring fault right on page 3:

Regarding the net fiscal impact of immigrants, we find for our baseline scenario,7 and considering the immigrant population that resided in the UK over the 1995–2011 period, that over a period during which the fiscal cost of natives cumulated to £591 billion, EEA immigrants contributed 10% more than natives (in relative terms)
​

Immigrants are generally young and single. Natives range from toddlers to the elderly. We each have a lifecycle to our economic productivity - when we're young we're money-sinks, then as we enter adulthood we start to earn our keep and when we retire we start drawing down from the surpluses we contributed. This study is looking at people who are disproportionately single, so a restriction of range issue distorts what is going on.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Another aspect that they haven't covered yet is the capital stock of a nation. The citizens have built schools, hospitals, roads, sewers, freeways, airports, etc. Much of that has been fully paid for over the years. When 1 million immigrants arrive the nation finds that its infrastructure is now overburdened and must be expanded to accommodate a larger population. Economists would treat that expense on a per capita model but that's wrong for absent the 1 million immigrants, no expense would be incurred at all. To correctly understand reality the expense of added infrastructure must be fully assigned to the immigrants. Think of a homeowner with 3 bedrooms, one for the parents and one each for the two children. Then the wife's sister moves her family in bringing along her husband and 2 children and the house needs to be expanded from providing living space for 4 people to 8 people. Should the cost of the house expansion be evenly split between the two families or should the newly arrived sister have to pay the entirety of the construction cost? No sister moving in, no need to expand the size of the house.

Smart academics can construct studies to arrive at conclusions that they prefer. Imagine an institute devoted to migration studies finding that migrants are a positive contribution to society.

 

[westwall]

European migrants to the UK are not a drain on Britain’s finances and pay out far more in taxes than they receive in state benefits, a new study has revealed.

The research by two leading migration economists at University College also reveals that Britain is uniquely successful, even more than Germany, in attracting the most highly skilled and highly educated migrants in Europe.

The study, the Fiscal Impact of Immigration to the UK, published in the Economic Journal, reveals that more than 60% of new migrants from western and southern Europe are now university graduates. The educational levels of east Europeans who come to Britain are also improving with 25% of recent arrivals having completed a degree compared with 24% of the UK-born workforce.

UK gains 20bn from European migrants UCL economists reveal UK news The Guardian

That's funny. The Telegraph carried the same story but it was different. Immigrants from OUTSIDE of Europe cost the UK over 120 million pounds. Those from eastern Europe added only 4.4 billion pounds. Net loss to government 116 billion. Of course the 120 billion was lost over a period of 17 years so that is 7 billion pounds lost as opposed to the 4.4 billion gained. I'll let you do the rest of the math.

Immigration from outside Europe 'cost £120 billion'
New report shows immigration from outside Europe over the Labour government years cost the public purse billions of pounds, while recent migration from inside Europe generated a £4 billion surplus

Immigration from outside Europe cost 120 billion - Telegraph

 

[Saigon]

Rik -

It's difficult to criticise a study for not studying what is outside its scope - in this case capital stock. How would one measure the capital stock of migrnts, anyway?

The key issues here are surely the level of education of migrants, and the measuring of taxes paid vs welfare received.

I thought it was interesting, even if one might dispute ome elements of it.

 

[Saigon]

In terms of life cycle, I think its also worth remembering that many migrants leave before they retire, and go back to Poland, Latvia or wherever they cane from.

I do take your point, but many migrants will never reeive a British pension, for instance.

 

[Rikurzhen]

In terms of life cycle, I think its also worth remembering that many migrants leave before they retire, and go back to Poland, Latvia or wherever they cane from.

I do take your point, but many migrants will never reeive a British pension, for instance.

I can't speak with any authority on the British pension scheme but I can speak to general international principles. America has treaty relations with a number of countries which allow pension benefits to be earned and then paid out to foreign workers. If a Dutch worker comes to work in America for 10 years and pays his FICA taxes, then upon returning back to the Netherlands he can either claim a lump sum or defer the clawback and claim a US gov't pension for his 10 years of contributions. The same courtesy is extended to the American who works in the Netherlands. Canada has the same sort of treaties in place, same with Japan and same too with European countries. I don't know how things have changed with the coming of the EU and I don't know what their internal policies are but I suspect that with labor mobility comes pension mobility.

In short, I'd be very surprised if pension contributions were simply a black hole for migrants, a tax on which they forfeit hope of a return.

 

[Saigon]

Rik -

It usually depends on how long a worker has been a resident, as most countries do not allow a worker to draw two pensions. So people have to choose.

I could, in theory, retire to Spain on my Finnish pension, or work in Spain for some years and have a Spanish penion. But in most cases the home country will ve the higher pension, because people have worked more years there.

At least, this is the Finnish system.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Rik -

It's difficult to criticise a study for not studying what is outside its scope - in this case capital stock. How would one measure the capital stock of migrnts, anyway?

The key issues here are surely the level of education of migrants, and the measuring of taxes paid vs welfare received.

I thought it was interesting, even if one might dispute ome elements of it.

The usefulness of a study is directly related to how well it informs us about reality. A study which develops and analyzes a model only tells us about the model. If the model is validated against the real world, then the findings of the model would apply to the real world, but if the model excludes aspects of reality, then its findings are a distorted picture of reality.

I haven't looked at the UK's public finances so my general model might be faulty here because it's built on the US model, but consider this:

In fiscal year 2014 the governments in the United States are expected to spend about 36 percent of Gross Domestic Product. Most of the money goes for health care, education, pensions, defense, and welfare programs. Health care spending is split mainly between federal and state governments; education spending is mainly spent by local governments; pension spending is primarily the federal government’s Social Security program.
​

The US GDP for 2014 is expected to be $17.535 trillion. The US population in 2014 is 323.5 million.

Using the methodology of this paper, ($17.535 trillion / 323.5 million) * 0.36 = $19,500 of government services provided to each citizen.

This paper is claiming that this immigrants are net taxpayers, each immigrant is paying more in taxes than what they consume in services. An immigrant with a child is now on the hook, in the US, for $39,000 in taxes. An immigrant with a non-working spouse and two children is now on the hook for $78,000 in taxes per year.

This is the plausibility hurdle this paper has to jump. That's a very high hurdle, at least for the US. Here, most immigrants DO NOT PAY THEIR OWN WAY and we had two massive studies conducted by the National Academy of Sciences which published their findings on this matter. They also found that the immigrants who were college educated when they arrived stood the best chance of becoming net tax contributors to society.

I wonder how Polish bricklayers manage to end up as net contributors to British society - how different are the public finances of the UK compared to the US?

 

[Phoenall]

In terms of life cycle, I think its also worth remembering that many migrants leave before they retire, and go back to Poland, Latvia or wherever they cane from.

I do take your point, but many migrants will never reeive a British pension, for instance.

Actually they do even though they have moved back to their own countries. Same with welfare they can claim for JSA while they are living "back home" and working. Then there is child allowance that is paid for all children, even those back home which cost the taxpayers a lot of money that could go on making the indigenous peoples lives better. Did you hear about the health scam where they go to a G.P. and describe symptoms to get medication to send back home because they have to pay full price there. The drugs are then sold on the open market making them money.

This was tried a few years back by another leftist think tank and Migration Watch took their report apart and showed that in reality the migrants cost the country more than they paid in, the little things like child allowance, tax credits, housing benefit, pensions, JSA, prescriptions and eye tests were left out.

 

[Phoenall]

Rik -

It usually depends on how long a worker has been a resident, as most countries do not allow a worker to draw two pensions. So people have to choose.

I could, in theory, retire to Spain on my Finnish pension, or work in Spain for some years and have a Spanish penion. But in most cases the home country will ve the higher pension, because people have worked more years there.

At least, this is the Finnish system.

Strange that as many ex pats go to live in Spain and get their private pensions, UK state pensions and Spanish pensions. Under our last neo Marxist government anyone who was a resident in the UK was able to claim FULL pension even if they had not worked a day in the UK. This was to buy votes from migrants so that the neo Marxists could stay in power

 

[Saigon]

Phoenell -

So you live in Belarus?

I can't think of another country with Marxist government....or do you not know what 'Marxist' means?

 

[Saigon]

Rik -

It is hard to know if a Polish bricklayer represents a net gain or anet loss for the British taxpayer, but to me this is necer going to be a black or white issue. Some migrants bring huge gains for the parent society, others become a huge liability.

I suspect one issue here when comparing the US to the UK is the level of education across Europe. Countries like Czech and Hungary have very good education systema, so migrants arrive in England speaking English and wih genuine skills. With all due respect to Guatemala, the same probably cannot be said of immigrants from Central America.

 

[Phoenall]

Phoenell -

So you live in Belarus?

I can't think of another country with Marxist government....or do you not know what 'Marxist' means?

Yes we had one in the UK for 14 years and it very nearly crippled the country, it did cripple the economy and led to the deaths of many people. Or are you one of these Ostriches that refuse to see the neo Marxists that ruled our country and LIED to the voters. Do you deny the rape and racial abuse of 10,000 11 and 12 year girls at the hands of Pakistani muslims in return for a handful of votes. The theft of private pension funds to support the mass immigration of unemployables and their welfare payments. The laws to give immigrants more rights than the indigenous, or the state sanctioned gangs of thugs attacking children and the elderly. Just look at the new leader who follows in his forefathers cowardly footsteps, and will run for the hills at the first sign of any problems abandoning his family and children. What was it his father said about Britain while milking it dry and living high on the proceeds. champagne Socialists that will climb into bed with anyone that will give them their vote, including child abusers and rapists.

 

[Phoenall]

Rik -

It is hard to know if a Polish bricklayer represents a net gain or anet loss for the British taxpayer, but to me this is necer going to be a black or white issue. Some migrants bring huge gains for the parent society, others become a huge liability.

I suspect one issue here when comparing the US to the UK is the level of education across Europe. Countries like Czech and Hungary have very good education systema, so migrants arrive in England speaking English and wih genuine skills. With all due respect to Guatemala, the same probably cannot be said of immigrants from Central America.

Most polish bricklayers are a net loss to the country as their work is so shoddy it needs to be redone with all new materials. Many homeowners tell of getting quotes £10,000 under anything a British builder can do the job for, only to find the work fails inspection and the builder has run away with the money. Then they have to trace the builder and take them to court to get their money back, hard to do when they are back in Poland. I know a builder that does nothing else but put right shoddy eastern European work, and he is in great demand. Many Northern building firms are now buying caravans to house their workers close to London and are undercutting London firms on many home improvements. My brother in law built hardwood conservatives in London at half the cost of local builders and his boss made £10,000 on each one

 

[Saigon]

Phoenell -

Please try and learn what words like 'Marxist' and neo-Marxist' mean. Seriously.

At the moment your comments are rendered unintelligible by the constant spouting of terms you clearly do not understand at all. Trust me - this does not make you look smart.

 

[Phoenall]

Phoenell -

Please try and learn what words like 'Marxist' and neo-Marxist' mean. Seriously.

At the moment your comments are rendered unintelligible by the constant spouting of terms you clearly do not understand at all. Trust me - this does not make you look smart.

Spoken like a true neo Marxist, I know what the terms mean after watching 14 years of neo Marxist rule in the UK. Also after being groomed by a neo Marxist to be a union officer that toed the neo Marxist line, I realised just what they were doing and got out as fast as I could.