uh oh.... democrats going to stop BP from paying dividends??

[boedicca]

Yes, let's go back to the beginning, but this time I'm not going to let you lie about what you said. I notice you editied your remarks to delete the one that started this sub-discussion.

I didn't lie about what I said. You don't read for either comprehension or retention.

Wrong. BP has american subsidiaries. Those are the ones whose divident payments will be blocked

And you don't think they can't re-engineer their corporate structure to reduce the amount of business that flows through their U.S. subs? If the U.S. is going to punish their shareholders for U.S. based profits, then the solution is to move those profits elsewhere.

It's clear you are one of those morons who think that government can do whatever it wants and behavior will not alter. Well, this is reality, Dave.

Really? Does your "extensive" education in the financial markets include lessons on how to sell american stocks in a foriegn market, because that would be illegal?

Yes. It does. Stock listings can move to other exchanges. There is competition.

Well, if some stranger on the internet who worries that offshore drilling may be forced offshore says so, then it must be true!!

Non-responsive, but I'll take that as a concession that you have a very poor understanding of Sarbox and it's aftermath.

I'd be more likely to believe in your ability to predict the future if you demonstrated an ability to predict the past.

I don't need to predict the past. I understand history, you know, the classes you skipped while getting stoned on the fringes of the football field.

I see we have another rightwinger who supports govt welfare.

If oil companies can't make money then they should go out of business. Using govt intervention in the economy to subsidize jobs is socialism. You're supposed to be opposed to socialism.

I call Shenanigans, you nattering nabob of nonsense.

You won't find one post here where I support corporate welfare.

I don't want the government to choose Winners or Losers. In the case of BP, they first tried to pick a winner, and now they are using the hammer of government to turn them into a loser. The government has highly distorted the market in both cases.

On a side note, I thought you lefty types were supposed to be compassionate for the working man. Where is your compassion for the workers in the fishing and oil industries whose jobs have been or are at risk of being destroyed? Why are you so eager to see them suffer?

 

[JScott]

Just who do you think BP hires to work in the gulf?

I see you're still worrying about the offshore drilling being driven offshore

PS - the answer is "Halliburton"

My comment had to do with the financial markets, which you apparently don't understand, btw.

SO offshore drilling is part of the financial markets? I sure don't understand that, but I'd just LOVE to hear you explain it. I could always use a chuckle

Oh my. Back to the beginning.

This thread is about preventing BP from paying dividends. Those are financial transactions. BP is a British plc. They are perfectly free to move their financial activity out of the U.S. Sarbox was kneejerk legislation enacted as a political response to Enron, which punishes companies who do not break the law. The net impact of this has been to reduce IPO activity and relocate financial activity to non-U.S. exchanges.

If you think the U.S. losing its primacy as a financial center is good for the country, then recheck your premise.

Now, for the employee base of BP in the Gulf: a great deal of them are Americans who live in the gulf region. The fishing industry has been virtually wiped out due to the oil spill. Let's complete devastate the region by wiping out the oil industry as well. That'd be real good. Gulf sourced oil fuels about 10% of the economic activity in the U.S. If you're lucky, perhaps the loss of it will decimate your job.

No other oil companies will take their place?

 

[boedicca]

How if Obama has a moratorium?

 

[Vast LWC]

More diversion, I wonder why?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-hard-to-make-the-oil-spill-obamas-fault.html

 

[JScott]

Senate Democrats to BP: Suspend dividend payment | NOLA.com

not sure I can agree with punishing the share holders and I wonder where the senate would get authority to do this

So, even though the Gulf lays in shambles, and could for many years, the shareholders should receive a reward? That is what a dividend is, you know.

You do know that if BP were to file bankruptcy because of the lack of funds, the gulf and all those people that live in the gulf are out of luck, right?

When someone plays poker or dice they take a chance. BP was a bad roll or a bad hand, simple as that.

 

[sangha]

Yes, let's go back to the beginning, but this time I'm not going to let you lie about what you said. I notice you editied your remarks to delete the one that started this sub-discussion.

I didn't lie about what I said. You don't read for either comprehension or retention.

You said "lets go back to the beginning, and then you left the beginning out"

Lie by ommission

Wrong. BP has american subsidiaries. Those are the ones whose divident payments will be blocked

And you don't think they can't re-engineer their corporate structure to reduce the amount of business that flows through their U.S. subs? If the U.S. is going to punish their shareholders for U.S. based profits, then the solution is to move those profits elsewhere.

NO, I don't THINK that can't do that; I KNOW they can't

Only the deluded would think that BP could operate gas stations, propane vendors, refineries, etc on american soil and selling to american customers from overseas.

It's clear you are one of those morons who think that government can do whatever it wants and behavior will not alter. Well, this is reality, Dave.

In reality, no one is saying the govt can do anything it wants. Those are the voices in your head that you're hearing.

Yes. It does. Stock listings can move to other exchanges. There is competition.

American incorporated businesses cannot sell stock in a foriegn exchange.

Non-responsive, but I'll take that as a concession that you have a very poor understanding of Sarbox and it's aftermath.

Completely responsive to the complete absence of fact you posted.

I'd be more likely to believe in your ability to predict the future if you demonstrated an ability to predict the past.

I don't need to predict the past. I understand history, you know, the classes you skipped while getting stoned on the fringes of the football field.

It's obvious you have no facts to support your absurd prediction. If you had anything to back you up, you would post it.

I see we have another rightwinger who supports govt welfare.

If oil companies can't make money then they should go out of business. Using govt intervention in the economy to subsidize jobs is socialism. You're supposed to be opposed to socialism.

I call Shenanigans, you nattering nabob of nonsense.

You won't find one post here where I support corporate welfare.

Sure you have. You just did. You supported the govt intervention into the economy. That's socialism and welfare.

I don't want the government to choose Winners or Losers.

Sure you do. You want the govt to keep BP afloat so that people in LA will keep their jobs.

In the case of BP, they first tried to pick a winner, and now they are using the hammer of government to turn them into a loser. The government has highly distorted the market in both cases.

You're just babbling now. Try to write that in a coherent manner. Who is "they" and what did "they" actually do. Your nebulous claims make me think this is just more of your fuzzy headed arguments that have nothing to support them (aside from your delusion)

On a side note, I thought you lefty types were supposed to be compassionate for the working man. Where is your compassion for the workers in the fishing and oil industries whose jobs have been or are at risk of being destroyed? Why are you so eager to see them suffer?

I support legislation to retrain the oil workers in renewable energy technologies. Republicans opposed Obama's plan to increase funding for this.

And as far the fishers go, I support taking over BP, selling it, and sending the proceeds to everyone who has been harmed by BP's negligence. Republicans support capping BP's liability and are happy to see the working people of LA eat shit

 

[SFC Ollie]

So if the US Congress is stupid enough to start interfering with the financial moves of non-American companies, how many do you think will continue to invest in the USA?

Watch for the mass exodus.

 

[JScott]

So if the US Congress is stupid enough to start interfering with the financial moves of non-American companies, how many do you think will continue to invest in the USA?

Watch for the mass exodus.

So you think its ok to reward BPs shareholders?

 

[boedicca]

You said "lets go back to the beginning, and then you left the beginning out"

Lie by ommission

Liar. I went back to the thread title which is as beginning as it get in a thread.

NO, I don't THINK that can't do that; I KNOW they can't

Only the deluded would think that BP could operate gas stations, propane vendors, refineries, etc on american soil and selling to american customers from overseas.

I said corporate structure. Not physical operations. Legal entities can be formed with various tax treatments, such as a cost plus, with revenues recognized elsewhere.

It's perfectly legal.

In reality, no one is saying the govt can do anything it wants. Those are the voices in your head that you're hearing.

It's what you are advocating, bub - the government using its power to punish a company.

American incorporated businesses cannot sell stock in a foriegn exchange.

BP is a plc with its main corporate entity in London. They can certainly trade stock outside of the U.S. exchanges (which they do, BP is listed on the London Stock Exchange, and a component of the FTSE 100).

The rest of your post is just repetitive nonsense, and you bore me - so I'm going to end my response with the observation that you have virtually no knowledge of business or economics, and only a pretext of a moral code.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So if the US Congress is stupid enough to start interfering with the financial moves of non-American companies, how many do you think will continue to invest in the USA?

Watch for the mass exodus.

So you think its ok to reward BPs shareholders?

I don't care about their shareholders right now. I do care about the lackluster cleanup efforts so far. And BP shareholders have little to do with it. I also care about foreign trade, and this would damage it greatly. Of course this is only my opinion.

 

[Vast LWC]

So if the US Congress is stupid enough to start interfering with the financial moves of non-American companies, how many do you think will continue to invest in the USA?

Watch for the mass exodus.

This particular corporation has caused one of the worst disasters EVER in US history.

Admit it, if this was the Venezuelans, you would be calling for war.

 

[sangha]

You said "lets go back to the beginning, and then you left the beginning out"

Lie by ommission

Liar. I went back to the thread title which is as beginning as it get in a thread.

Liar. You left out your beginning remark to me where you worried about offshore drilling being forced offshore (sorry, but I can't stop laughing about that one)

NO, I don't THINK that can't do that; I KNOW they can't

Only the deluded would think that BP could operate gas stations, propane vendors, refineries, etc on american soil and selling to american customers from overseas.

I said corporate structure. Not physical operations. Legal entities can be formed with various tax treatments, such as a cost plus, with revenues recognized elsewhere.

No, they can't. In order to operate gas stations, etc they MUST have an american subsidiary.

BP has ALREADY located it's main HQ offshore....IN GREAT BRITAIN. If they could move more, they would have done so already.

It's perfectly legal.

No, it's not.

In reality, no one is saying the govt can do anything it wants. Those are the voices in your head that you're hearing.

It's what you are advocating, bub - the government using its power to punish a company.

I guess in wingnut world, when the govt does what the law allows it to, it is doing "whatever it wants"

American incorporated businesses cannot sell stock in a foriegn exchange.

BP is a plc with its main corporate entity in London. They can certainly trade stock outside of the U.S. exchanges.

BP's american subsidiaries cannot sell stock on a foriegn exchange.They can move their subsidiaries, but then they would not be allowed to operate gas stations, convenience stores, refineries, etc.

The rest of your post is just repetitive nonsense, and you bore me - so I'm going to end my response with the observation that you have virtually no knowledge of business or economics, and only a pretext of a moral code.

I accept your surrender.

And it doesn't surprise me. Rightwingers always scurry away once their delusions are exposed,

Seriously, if you think that corps can just re-incorporate in another country and still do business in the US, then why haven't all those companies re-incorporated in Afghanistan or Somalia where the taxes are low?

 

[boedicca]

I didn't worry about offshore drilling being driven off shore - I was addressing the financial market. Post #7:

Great. Sarbox has already drive a great deal of financial market activity out of the U.S. Let's do even more to drive business off shore.

BP's U.S. subs don't sell stock at all, moron.

BP plc stock is listed on the NYSE, as well as on the LSE.

Oh, Jeebus. It's like talking to a wall. You're just plain ignorant. It's like speaking French to a Hottentot.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So if the US Congress is stupid enough to start interfering with the financial moves of non-American companies, how many do you think will continue to invest in the USA?

Watch for the mass exodus.

This particular corporation has caused one of the worst disasters EVER in US history.

Admit it, if this was the Venezuelans, you would be calling for war.

No I don't think so. I would be calling on our Government to move their ass instead of applying red tape. Just as I am now.

We all know there will be plenty of time to point fingers and place blame. There is no time left to protect the beeches and wetlands.

 

[Vast LWC]

No I don't think so. I would be calling on our Government to move their ass instead of applying red tape. Just as I am now.

We all know there will be plenty of time to point fingers and place blame. There is no time left to protect the beeches and wetlands.

Does placing blame somehow interfere with the effort to stop the destruction?

Somehow I think that the country can multi-task.

And we all know the right-wingers have been placing LOTS of blame while not actually doing much at all.

Take the folks on this board, for example. They're all bitching and moaning about Obama not doing enough to help, and THEY aren't doing squat except posting complaints on a posting board. Have any of them gone down to the Gulf to scrub beaches and wash birds?

Has Rush Limbaugh lifted even one of his fat little fingers to help?

Meanwhile Obama has diverted half the friggin' Navy to the effort, as well as most of his waking hours.

 

[kyzr]

I didn't worry about offshore drilling being driven off shore - I was addressing the financial market:

Great. Sarbox has already drive a great deal of financial market activity out of the U.S. Let's do even more to drive business off shore.

BP's U.S. subs don't sell stock at all, moron.

BP plc stock is listed on the NYSE, as well as on the LSE.

Oh, Jeebus. It's like talking to a wall. You're just plain ignorant. It's like speaking French to a Hottentot.

I hope the Senate stops naked short-selling like the Germans. That would be a great thing for everyone's 401k and pension funds. The way it is now, the big money guys can sell a stock short, and steal everyone's investment.

As for stopping BPs dividend. I have no clue why Schumer thinks that BP can't afford to pay dividends AND pay for the cleanup. By stopping dividends they are guaranteeing BP's "market-cap" would drop from $118b to about $60b. Paying the dividend keeps them flush with cash. The cleanup would be paid from petty cash.

 

[WillowTree]

I didn't worry about offshore drilling being driven off shore - I was addressing the financial market. Post #7:

Great. Sarbox has already drive a great deal of financial market activity out of the U.S. Let's do even more to drive business off shore.

BP's U.S. subs don't sell stock at all, moron.

BP plc stock is listed on the NYSE, as well as on the LSE.

Oh, Jeebus. It's like talking to a wall. You're just plain ignorant. It's like speaking French to a Hottentot.

your conversant seems to be thick as glacial ice? huh?

 

[WillowTree]

No I don't think so. I would be calling on our Government to move their ass instead of applying red tape. Just as I am now.

We all know there will be plenty of time to point fingers and place blame. There is no time left to protect the beeches and wetlands.

Does placing blame somehow interfere with the effort to stop the destruction?

Somehow I think that the country can multi-task.

And we all know the right-wingers have been placing LOTS of blame while not actually doing much at all.

Take the folks on this board, for example. They're all bitching and moaning about Obama not doing enough to help, and THEY aren't doing squat except posting complaints on a posting board. Have any of them gone down to the Gulf to scrub beaches and wash birds?

Has Rush Limbaugh lifted even one of his fat little fingers to help?

Meanwhile Obama has diverted half the friggin' Navy to the effort, as well as most of his waking hours.

 

[boedicca]

I hope the Senate stops naked short-selling like the Germans. That would be a great thing for everyone's 401k and pension funds. The way it is now, the big money guys can sell a stock short, and steal everyone's investment.

As for stopping BPs dividend. I have no clue why Schumer thinks that BP can't afford to pay dividends AND pay for the cleanup. By stopping dividends they are guaranteeing BP's "market-cap" would drop from $118b to about $60b. Paying the dividend keeps them flush with cash. The cleanup would be paid from petty cash.

Agreed on the NSS.

This dividend play is just Kabuki Theater to focus attention on BP in order to distract it from the poor response by the Obama Administration.

 

[sangha]

I didn't worry about offshore drilling being driven off shore - I was addressing the financial market. Post #7:

Great. Sarbox has already drive a great deal of financial market activity out of the U.S. Let's do even more to drive business off shore.

BP's U.S. subs don't sell stock at all, moron.

BP plc stock is listed on the NYSE, as well as on the LSE.

Oh, Jeebus. It's like talking to a wall. You're just plain ignorant. It's like speaking French to a Hottentot.

No moron. BP plc does not sell shares of stock on NYSE; They sell ADR's and ADS's. It is nothing more than a method for americans to invest in foriegn based corps without having to go through currency conversions. The actual trade of shares happens in London.

However, I do give you props for distorting the fact about an issue few people know about it; It's an improvement over your usual tactic of telling obvious lies.