Ugliest 1st Lady since Barb Bush, maybe even Eleanor Roosevelt

[Psychoblues]

Have any of you seen Ms. Dean? WOW!!!!!!! She reminds me of my quarter horse that I had as a teenager!!!!! Looks like a Doctor could've afforded some dental work for her or at least kept her from chewing corn off the cob through a picket fence!!!!!

Just kidding you, don't you know? Ms. Dean is certainly beautiful, well, in her own way. We're not obsessed with the beauty of 1st Ladies are we?

Howard has never been my pick and the Iowa caucuses verified my reservations towards him. Actually, Kerry has been my favorite amongst the Democrats for a long time now. I think he'll get the nomination. But Clark is also attractive and we'll see how the New Hampshire primaries go. Either way, I see John Edwards as VP nominee. I would prefer Hillary but Man still rules, even in the Democratic Party.

What do you think?

 

[wonderwench]

Hillary is a fascist and I will prepare burnt offerings to the Goddess to implore her to keep that creature from acquiring the Presidency.

I have no opinion on Dr. Judith Dean's appearance. It shouldn't matter one way or the other.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Have any of you seen Ms. Dean? WOW!!!!!!! She reminds me of my quarter horse that I had as a teenager!!!!! Looks like a Doctor could've afforded some dental work for her or at least kept her from chewing corn off the cob through a picket fence!!!!!

Just kidding you, don't you know? Ms. Dean is certainly beautiful, well, in her own way. We're not obsessed with the beauty of 1st Ladies are we?

Howard has never been my pick and the Iowa caucuses verified my reservations towards him. Actually, Kerry has been my favorite amongst the Democrats for a long time now. I think he'll get the nomination. But Clark is also attractive and we'll see how the New Hampshire primaries go. Either way, I see John Edwards as VP nominee. I would prefer Hillary but Man still rules, even in the Democratic Party.

What do you think?

No offense, but do you really wonder why people don't enter into serious conversation with you??

 

[Psychoblues]

Exactly, WW. But to call Hillary a fascist in the light of the usurption of our laws, our Constitution, our entire reasons for being Americans by the present Administration is ludicrous. Hillary may very well be a socialist (the opposite of a fascist) but then so is the leader of our strongest ally, England. Tony Blair is very much a socialist. But being a socialist has gotten so much bad press for 50 or so years. Maybe you just got confused in your unsubstantiated rage?

 

[wonderwench]

You are wrong about fascism being the opposite of socialism - they are both flavors of collectivism. The only difference is that in former, private ownership of property is allowed. What they have in common is that private property is controlled by the state and individuals are subordinate to the state.

The opposite of all flavors of Collectivism is Capitalism & Democracy

 

[Psychoblues]

That's OK, Moi. Being a lefty on a clearly rightwing site is not a fear or a major concern of mine. It's amazing, to me, how much seemingly frivolous remarks tend to expose truth in character and it is there that I expect to find underlying reasons as to why so many of you tend to vote against yourselves and support an inadvertant, by you, desire to see democracy abolished altogether. On the other hand, I voted for RR and GHWB. I'm still trying to figure that out. Can you dig it?

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
That's OK, Moi. Being a lefty on a clearly rightwing site is not a fear or a major concern of mine. It's amazing, to me, how much seemingly frivolous remarks tend to expose truth in character and it is there that I expect to find underlying reasons as to why so many of you tend to vote against yourselves and support an inadvertant, by you, desire to see democracy abolished altogether. On the other hand, I voted for RR and GHWB. I'm still trying to figure that out. Can you dig it?

To be honest, I have no idea what you just said. Other than the fact that you voted for RR and GHWB.

You are hardly the only lefty and I think that those who are here offer an interesting counterpoint at times. I just wish posts were more intelligent and on topic. Who cares what people look like? If I wanted that kind of commentary, I'd read the newspapers or watch national news programs. They are hardly more than entertainment.

 

[Psychoblues]

So apparently, WW, you don't agree that fascism is the result of military/industrial/corporate ultimate rule? The tools of the finance industry also inhibit us beyond our wildest imaginations. That's interesting.

I think you are confusing socialism with communism. That is a lie inculcated upon us during the Eisenhower administration (and I do love the memory of that true conservative administration) and it lives on despite it's inaccurate perception.

"Collectivism" is exactly what we are up against. The military/industrial/corporate/finance/media industries are now so comingled that one cannot draw any kind of a line between them. Excuse me, but that's exactly the kind of government that our forefathers created this country to escape. But maybe that's above your head?

 

[wonderwench]

I'll ignore your pathetic attempt at making a snide remark.

The reductio ad absurdum of the military-industrial-government complex is a form of collectivism. Collectivism arises when the institutions of society conspire to subjugate individuals. This is why we have The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. Governments and large entities will always test the limits of power. That is just part of life. We have a system of law, however, which provides corrective measures.

There are always swings from one side of the pendulum to the other.

But we are still free to discuss these events. If it were as bad as you claim, you would be in a gulag.

 

[Psychoblues]

And I'll ignore your "pathetic" and "gulag" remarks although I think you were serious when you made them.

 

[wonderwench]

I see you cannot address the substance.

 

[Psychoblues]

Actually, WW, I've addressed ill-conceived substance of which you now allude 'till I'm sick of it. It's baffling how we fight the same battles over and over with never a "solution". It's disturbing how so many never pay attention to the actions of politicians verses the words they speak for the sole purpose of "getting elected". Even now you seem to condemn "collectivism" whilst you spread propaganda that defends it. Tsk, tsk.

I've been aroud the bend a time or two, WW. I've voted both sides and down the middle. I realized many years ago that it was nigh time I voted for MY personal interests. The Republicans, as much as they claim to do so, do NOT represent MY best interests. In other words, they've lied to me. The Democrats are not much to brag about either but they're what people like me have to contend with. 9 candidates on the primary is laughable, IMHO. But a few of them have great promise to fulfil at least part of what is important to me. Even GWB has sincerely and severely disappointed me despite his claims in the campaign. Do you not find the same to be true?

 

[wonderwench]

Well here is some common ground at least. I am disgusted with the takeover of our government by career politicians - and how they dole out taxpayer money and rig laws and regulations to support their cadre of parasites: trial lawyers, corporate pork eaters, entitlement recipients, unions, government bureaucrats etc.

They have created a two class society - those who feed off the government and those who are the meat. At this point the Dems and the GOP have a symbiotic relationship, and neither really practise what they are promoted as representing. It is all about staying in power.

 

[Psychoblues]

If you will, WW, lemme give you a few things that are close to my heart:

1. Don't tell me you are about Veterans and then vote to diminish my benefits as guaranteed when I ENLISTED. No, I've never been drafted but I have been been deployed, injured and redeployed, then denied. Can you dig it?

2. Don't tell me you are about affordable and available health care when you vote against it or hide behind some faux bill that disquises the problem rather than offer any remedy and even then presents a gift basket to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Hell, I'm a service-connected vet and I still can't get as much as a new pair of glasses. It goes a lot further, can you get my drift?

3. Don't tell me about clean air, water, food and workplace safety standards while you're voting to eliminate all the present ones without regard to viability or consequense or the promises you made to protect them.

4. I don't even want to hear about your attitudes towards workers rights while you hiss and moan about the only thing workers have to depend on, their guilds and unions. Do a little study on trade unions and professional guilds, WW. They actually do help the "little people" despite their occasional failures. Is reform necessary? I think so, but the ability for the little person to have redress and representation is as necessary as our Constitution. In fact, our Constitution guarantees it.

5. I could go on and on, but for now this should suffice for a fairly comprehensive debate.