U.S. military urged to follow Canada's transgender policy

[Flopper]

Gender is a social construct; sex is not. Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to masculinity and femininity. Those concepts differ widely with different cultures and time periods. Sex is a biological construct, which although medically alterable is the same the world over..

The subject of sexual and gender identification is complex and the terminology is important. You might want to do a bit reading before commenting. Cross-dressers don’t associate within the LGBT community and don’t see themselves as anything but straight/heterosexual. Transgenders dabble in the roles of both sexes but often have no desire to change sex. Transsexual is medical term for those that have changed sex. Many transsexuals are part of the LGBT community but many live withing their targeted sex.

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Well, if they are "straight" then why do they want to dress like women? What would possess a man to want to wear pink women's panties. For one thing, I would think they would be extremely uncomfortable for man, considering they aren't made to hold a "package" if you know what I mean. I don't see where any of it is practical or makes any sense whatsoever.

I don't think there is a lot of research on cross dressers but there is at least one study that shows 10% to 15% of cross dressers are gay. Most are heterosexual and a small percentage are bisexual.

Why would a man want to dress in a women clothes? Why would a woman want to dress in a man's clothes? Some identify with the opposite sex but often it's a matter of simply wanting to emulate some characteristics of the opposite sex that they deeply admire. For example, a women may desire the emotional toughness, self-reliance, and courage that we identify with masculinity and thus seek to emulate those traits by dressing as a male. Likewise a man may desire the empathy, vulnerability, and sensitivity that we identify with femininity and thus dress in women's cloths.

As I said gender identification is not straightforward. Most gays do not routinely cross dress but may at times. Transsexuals usually seek partners of the opposite to their targeted sex but may also seek sex with their own sex.

People are not completely masculine nor feminine because those characteristics are assigned by society. If a man is very effeminate, then we are likely to assume he's gay just if a female has masculine characteristics we assume she is lesbian. The problem with this thinking is often wrong.

Well, I really can't understand what a person gets out of this "activity." I never really understood all of this talk about "masculine side" and "feminine side."

It's really not that hard to understand. We all know men who seem to possess all the commonly accepted masculine characteristics, physical strength, courage, defender of the weak, slow to show emotions, etc. We also know men that are very effeminate exhibiting many feminine characteristics, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, etc.. No man is completely masculine and no woman is completely feminine. A gay man may have masculine characteristics and a lesbian may be very effeminate. Many gay men would never wear women's clothes and many heterosexual men and women enjoy wearing closes of the opposite sex.

In other words, appearance and sexual stereotypes are often deceiving.

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

 

[ChrisL]

Who was it that ever decided that the schools should take on the roles of parents anyway? What makes the school systems think they have this right, to talk to our children about such intimate things? Especially when teachers are no MORE qualified in the department of SEX than anyone else? Teachers are only people too with their OWN baggages and biases.

Edit: Lol! Oopsie! I typed this in the wrong thread.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, if they are "straight" then why do they want to dress like women? What would possess a man to want to wear pink women's panties. For one thing, I would think they would be extremely uncomfortable for man, considering they aren't made to hold a "package" if you know what I mean. I don't see where any of it is practical or makes any sense whatsoever.

I don't think there is a lot of research on cross dressers but there is at least one study that shows 10% to 15% of cross dressers are gay. Most are heterosexual and a small percentage are bisexual.

Why would a man want to dress in a women clothes? Why would a woman want to dress in a man's clothes? Some identify with the opposite sex but often it's a matter of simply wanting to emulate some characteristics of the opposite sex that they deeply admire. For example, a women may desire the emotional toughness, self-reliance, and courage that we identify with masculinity and thus seek to emulate those traits by dressing as a male. Likewise a man may desire the empathy, vulnerability, and sensitivity that we identify with femininity and thus dress in women's cloths.

As I said gender identification is not straightforward. Most gays do not routinely cross dress but may at times. Transsexuals usually seek partners of the opposite to their targeted sex but may also seek sex with their own sex.

People are not completely masculine nor feminine because those characteristics are assigned by society. If a man is very effeminate, then we are likely to assume he's gay just if a female has masculine characteristics we assume she is lesbian. The problem with this thinking is often wrong.

Well, I really can't understand what a person gets out of this "activity." I never really understood all of this talk about "masculine side" and "feminine side."

It's really not that hard to understand. We all know men who seem to possess all the commonly accepted masculine characteristics, physical strength, courage, defender of the weak, slow to show emotions, etc. We also know men that are very effeminate exhibiting many feminine characteristics, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, etc.. No man is completely masculine and no woman is completely feminine. A gay man may have masculine characteristics and a lesbian may be very effeminate. Many gay men would never wear women's clothes and many heterosexual men and women enjoy wearing closes of the opposite sex.

In other words, appearance and sexual stereotypes are often deceiving.

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

 

[Flopper]

I don't think there is a lot of research on cross dressers but there is at least one study that shows 10% to 15% of cross dressers are gay. Most are heterosexual and a small percentage are bisexual.

Why would a man want to dress in a women clothes? Why would a woman want to dress in a man's clothes? Some identify with the opposite sex but often it's a matter of simply wanting to emulate some characteristics of the opposite sex that they deeply admire. For example, a women may desire the emotional toughness, self-reliance, and courage that we identify with masculinity and thus seek to emulate those traits by dressing as a male. Likewise a man may desire the empathy, vulnerability, and sensitivity that we identify with femininity and thus dress in women's cloths.

As I said gender identification is not straightforward. Most gays do not routinely cross dress but may at times. Transsexuals usually seek partners of the opposite to their targeted sex but may also seek sex with their own sex.

People are not completely masculine nor feminine because those characteristics are assigned by society. If a man is very effeminate, then we are likely to assume he's gay just if a female has masculine characteristics we assume she is lesbian. The problem with this thinking is often wrong.

Well, I really can't understand what a person gets out of this "activity." I never really understood all of this talk about "masculine side" and "feminine side."

It's really not that hard to understand. We all know men who seem to possess all the commonly accepted masculine characteristics, physical strength, courage, defender of the weak, slow to show emotions, etc. We also know men that are very effeminate exhibiting many feminine characteristics, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, etc.. No man is completely masculine and no woman is completely feminine. A gay man may have masculine characteristics and a lesbian may be very effeminate. Many gay men would never wear women's clothes and many heterosexual men and women enjoy wearing closes of the opposite sex.

In other words, appearance and sexual stereotypes are often deceiving.

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, I really can't understand what a person gets out of this "activity." I never really understood all of this talk about "masculine side" and "feminine side."

It's really not that hard to understand. We all know men who seem to possess all the commonly accepted masculine characteristics, physical strength, courage, defender of the weak, slow to show emotions, etc. We also know men that are very effeminate exhibiting many feminine characteristics, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, etc.. No man is completely masculine and no woman is completely feminine. A gay man may have masculine characteristics and a lesbian may be very effeminate. Many gay men would never wear women's clothes and many heterosexual men and women enjoy wearing closes of the opposite sex.

In other words, appearance and sexual stereotypes are often deceiving.

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

 

[Flopper]

It's really not that hard to understand. We all know men who seem to possess all the commonly accepted masculine characteristics, physical strength, courage, defender of the weak, slow to show emotions, etc. We also know men that are very effeminate exhibiting many feminine characteristics, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, etc.. No man is completely masculine and no woman is completely feminine. A gay man may have masculine characteristics and a lesbian may be very effeminate. Many gay men would never wear women's clothes and many heterosexual men and women enjoy wearing closes of the opposite sex.

In other words, appearance and sexual stereotypes are often deceiving.

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

 

[ChrisL]

That just doesn't make any sense. You are just describing people and their personalities. Of course no person always exhibits feminine/masculine personality features. This has nothing to do with dressing as the opposite gender though. Cross dressing, etc., is definitely something MORE than what you are attributing it to.

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

 

[Flopper]

What do you mean by MORE? People that are transgender will often prefer to dress as the opposite sex. However many women that are completely straight and are happy with their gender love to wear men's clothes. And yes, many straight men at times like to dress in women's clothes. Some gay men love to wear women's clothes and do so often; other's would never do so. The only thing you can say for sure about people who cross dress is they like wearing the clothes of the opposite sex.

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

 

[Mr. President]

This is the dumbest crap I have ever seen.

 

[ChrisL]

What do I mean by "more?" I mean, this is more than simply personality traits. You are not being honest or you are ignorant as to just how much of a problem this becomes for some people. A lot of these "cross dressers" suffer from what is now called "gender dysphoria syndrome" in which they are willing to risk their lives and mutilate their genitals in order to "become" the opposite sex.

No they are NOT the opposite sex, no matter what their screwy minds tell them.

IMO, it is some kind of mental illness is what I mean. I don't care if it was removed from the DSM list of psychiatric disorders. That was a PC move and nothing more. How can it be healthy to feed a delusion?

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

 

[Flopper]

Cross dressing is a trait that many people that are satisfied with their assigned sex engage in. Cross dressing is not a problem. It's not illegal. It does no damage to the person or others. However. it does violate current cultural norms but so does men carrying purses, men having long hair, women with butch haircuts, men as homemakers and women as the family provider.

I agree that cross dressing is a common trait of transgender people. However, all transgender people do not suffer from gender identity disorder because they aren't discontent with their gender. Those that can't cope with the gender society has assigned to their sex are said to have a gender identity disorder. They often become candidates for a sex change.

What this all boils down to is there is a huge variation in human sexuality and the stereotypes we use to classify people are often wrong and often very hateful.

We should judge employees by how well they do their job, not whether their clothes are feminine or masculine. What should be important about the people next door is not the sex of their partner but the kind of neighbors they are.

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, I think it's weird. Of course I would never be hateful towards such people, but I still think they're weird and suffering from a mental or emotional illness of some kind. Men and women have had different roles in society, that is probably why their manner of clothing is different.

Some of your post just doesn't make any sense, such as "they aren't discontent with their gender." Of course they are, that is why they are wanting to change their gender.

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

 

[Flopper]

Maybe I wasn't clear. If your're transgender, your gender does not match your sex but that doesn't necessary mean you are discontinued, most are but not all. Some people adjust and other don't. Those that can't adjust are pretty miserable people and usually seek gender re-assignment surgery.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

 

[ChrisL]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think it was wrong of the APA to remove it from the DSM as a mental disorder, because I absolutely think that it is, or perhaps a chemical imbalance or personality disorder of some kind. I believe most people are accepting of the gender they were born and would not wish to change.

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

 

[Flopper]

The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.
DSM-5 Saying Goodbye To Asperger s Syndrome


It seems every time a new version of the DSM is released, there is a flurry of controversy mostly due to people not understanding what the DSM is and how it's used. To be listed in the DSM a behavior pattern must be a mental disorder; that is, the behavior causes a person to either suffer or be impaired in their ability to function in ordinary life. For example homosexuality was removed from the DSM because it did not necessarily effect the persons ability to function in daily life.

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

Dysphoria replaced disorder to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". It is certainly a disorder or it wouldn't be listed in the DSM, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Take a look at the list of mental disorders from the DSM. You'll find the vast majority of the disorders don't contain the word, Autism, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Dyslexia, Alcohol Dependence, etc
List of mental disorders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many people with serious mental illness are challenged doubly. On one hand, they struggle with the symptoms and disabilities that result from the disease. On the other, they are challenged by the stereotypes and prejudice that result from misconceptions about mental illness. As a result of both, people with mental illness are robbed of the opportunities that define a quality life: good jobs, safe housing, and affiliation with a diverse group of people. This is why we try to stay away from words that create negative connotations both in the patient and those dealing with the patient. In the DSM, you won't find the word illness used or disease except in reference to a physical ailment that causes a mental disorder We have been eliminating the word "disorder" from the DSM for many years.

 

[ChrisL]

Gender identity disorder DOES affect their every day lives. Why don't you look up the suicide rates for such a disorder? I cannot believe that you or anyone else would try to "normalize" this. Obviously, it is a mental disorder. The real reason why they removed it from the DSM is because they don't know what to do with them, plain and simple. That's another reason why they will sometimes advise them to mutilate themselves to try and become something that they will NEVER be.

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

Dysphoria replaced disorder to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". It is certainly a disorder or it wouldn't be listed in the DSM, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Take a look at the list of mental disorders from the DSM. You'll find the vast majority of the disorders don't contain the word, Autism, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Dyslexia, Alcohol Dependence, etc
List of mental disorders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many people with serious mental illness are challenged doubly. On one hand, they struggle with the symptoms and disabilities that result from the disease. On the other, they are challenged by the stereotypes and prejudice that result from misconceptions about mental illness. As a result of both, people with mental illness are robbed of the opportunities that define a quality life: good jobs, safe housing, and affiliation with a diverse group of people. This is why we try to stay away from words that create negative connotations both in the patient and those dealing with the patient. In the DSM, you won't find the word illness used or disease except in reference to a physical ailment that causes a mental disorder We have been eliminating the word "disorder" from the DSM for many years.

What I am trying to say here is that I think being a "transgender" person IS a mental disorder, whether that person feels dysphoric about it or not.

 

[Flopper]

You must have missed the first line of my post. "The term "gender identity disorder" is being replaced with "gender dysphoria" to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". Just a new name for the same thing.

There are a number of treatments for gender dysphoria. The treatment goal is not to change how the person feels about his or her gender. Instead, the goal is to deal with the distress that may come with those feelings. Treatments other than talk theory, include altering dress, name, and physical appearance. Medical treatments include puberty blockers, hormones, and surgery. All have had some success but there is no commonly accepted cure. Even surgery is not 100%.

Your're wrong about the DSM. The purpose of the DSM is to help diagnosis mental disorders. It does not include information or guidelines for treatment of any disorder. There are many disorders listed which have no good treatments.

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

Dysphoria replaced disorder to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". It is certainly a disorder or it wouldn't be listed in the DSM, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Take a look at the list of mental disorders from the DSM. You'll find the vast majority of the disorders don't contain the word, Autism, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Dyslexia, Alcohol Dependence, etc
List of mental disorders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many people with serious mental illness are challenged doubly. On one hand, they struggle with the symptoms and disabilities that result from the disease. On the other, they are challenged by the stereotypes and prejudice that result from misconceptions about mental illness. As a result of both, people with mental illness are robbed of the opportunities that define a quality life: good jobs, safe housing, and affiliation with a diverse group of people. This is why we try to stay away from words that create negative connotations both in the patient and those dealing with the patient. In the DSM, you won't find the word illness used or disease except in reference to a physical ailment that causes a mental disorder We have been eliminating the word "disorder" from the DSM for many years.

What I am trying to say here is that I think being a "transgender" person IS a mental disorder, whether that person feels dysphoric about it or not.

I think we are in general agreement on this. However, keep in mind that a mental disorder is determined not by how society is effected but how the person is effected by the disorder. Granted, the vast majority of transgenders do suffer form Gender Dysphoria and are pretty miserable people. However, suppose a transgender male dresses as the opposite sex, is supported and accepted by friends and family, finds work as a female impersonator and is happy and content. Then he no has the mental disorder even though society may see it quite differently.

 

[ChrisL]

Since I've seen no good explanation for them to remove it, then it is all based on being PC, IMO. A lot of people try to pass this off as being a normal variant of the human condition, and I'm not buying that. It IS a "disorder." WTH???

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

Dysphoria replaced disorder to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". It is certainly a disorder or it wouldn't be listed in the DSM, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Take a look at the list of mental disorders from the DSM. You'll find the vast majority of the disorders don't contain the word, Autism, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Dyslexia, Alcohol Dependence, etc
List of mental disorders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many people with serious mental illness are challenged doubly. On one hand, they struggle with the symptoms and disabilities that result from the disease. On the other, they are challenged by the stereotypes and prejudice that result from misconceptions about mental illness. As a result of both, people with mental illness are robbed of the opportunities that define a quality life: good jobs, safe housing, and affiliation with a diverse group of people. This is why we try to stay away from words that create negative connotations both in the patient and those dealing with the patient. In the DSM, you won't find the word illness used or disease except in reference to a physical ailment that causes a mental disorder We have been eliminating the word "disorder" from the DSM for many years.

What I am trying to say here is that I think being a "transgender" person IS a mental disorder, whether that person feels dysphoric about it or not.

I think we are in general agreement on this. However, keep in mind that a mental disorder is determined not by how society is effected but how the person is effected by the disorder. Granted, the vast majority of transgenders do suffer form Gender Dysphoria and are pretty miserable people. However, suppose a transgender male dresses as the opposite sex, is supported and accepted by friends and family, finds work as a female impersonator and is happy and content. Then he no has the mental disorder even though society may see it quite differently.

Okay sure, I'll bet there are some somewhere who can function in society. However, they must realize that they can never be the opposite gender, not for real, and that is why I wonder how healthy it is for the psychiatric society to feed into the delusion by encouraging them to have a sex change or whatever "treatment" they are prescribing for such an ailment. I imagine that it is a very risky surgery and that there is a high potential of losing sexual function too. Is that the BEST therapy for these people? How about some good old fashioned therapy to help them to cope with their dysfunction instead of encouraging them to mutilate their perfectly healthy and functioning sexual organs?

 

[Flopper]

Do you not understand the disorder is in the DSM, that it's just been renamed?

Exactly. They are now claiming that being confused about your gender is NOT a disorder (which it most certainly absolutely IS), that only if you feel "sad" about it, is it a "psychiatric disorder." That's bogus. If you THINK that you are a woman, then there is a disorder somewhere in your brain.

Dysphoria replaced disorder to remove the stigma attached to the word "disorder". It is certainly a disorder or it wouldn't be listed in the DSM, Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Take a look at the list of mental disorders from the DSM. You'll find the vast majority of the disorders don't contain the word, Autism, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Dyslexia, Alcohol Dependence, etc
List of mental disorders - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many people with serious mental illness are challenged doubly. On one hand, they struggle with the symptoms and disabilities that result from the disease. On the other, they are challenged by the stereotypes and prejudice that result from misconceptions about mental illness. As a result of both, people with mental illness are robbed of the opportunities that define a quality life: good jobs, safe housing, and affiliation with a diverse group of people. This is why we try to stay away from words that create negative connotations both in the patient and those dealing with the patient. In the DSM, you won't find the word illness used or disease except in reference to a physical ailment that causes a mental disorder We have been eliminating the word "disorder" from the DSM for many years.

What I am trying to say here is that I think being a "transgender" person IS a mental disorder, whether that person feels dysphoric about it or not.

I think we are in general agreement on this. However, keep in mind that a mental disorder is determined not by how society is effected but how the person is effected by the disorder. Granted, the vast majority of transgenders do suffer form Gender Dysphoria and are pretty miserable people. However, suppose a transgender male dresses as the opposite sex, is supported and accepted by friends and family, finds work as a female impersonator and is happy and content. Then he no has the mental disorder even though society may see it quite differently.

Okay sure, I'll bet there are some somewhere who can function in society. However, they must realize that they can never be the opposite gender, not for real, and that is why I wonder how healthy it is for the psychiatric society to feed into the delusion by encouraging them to have a sex change or whatever "treatment" they are prescribing for such an ailment. I imagine that it is a very risky surgery and that there is a high potential of losing sexual function too. Is that the BEST therapy for these people? How about some good old fashioned therapy to help them to cope with their dysfunction instead of encouraging them to mutilate their perfectly healthy and functioning sexual organs?

Most people suffering form gender Gender Dysphoria do not seek sex reassignment surgery and as you say stick with old fashioned therapy. Usually this amounts to treatment of anxiety, depression, and other accompanying disorders. Mental health counseling helps a person cope however, there are no accepted treatments that alter gender to match a person's sex.

I haven't seen any studies about the long term success of reassignment surgery. There was a Swedish study that found suicide rates of transsexuals to be much higher than the average but suicide rates for transgenders are always much higher than average. There are horror stories about life after the surgery and stories of success.

The AMA says transgender people shouldn't require surgery to change their sex on their birth certificate or other identification documents because it's creating needless reassignment surgery. However, this would change the meaning of sex on a driver's licenses, passport, other ids. In other words, the sex designation on a passport would become gender identification and would be whatever the passport holder says it is. I think in some states this is how it is now.