U.S. adds 200,000 jobs in Dec.; unemployment drops to 8.5%

[whitehall]

"Unemployment drops" to what? 8.5% and the left is high-fiving each other? Wait until the December seasonal workers go back on unemployment. Wait until Barry starts trimming the Military and career Soldiers and Marines find themselves on the streets. Only a fool lives by a fraction of a percentage point when there is no solution in sight as long as democrats keep energy costs high and Barry fools people into thinking there are "green jobs" around the corner.

 

[Wiseacre]

Those jobs numbers are better, but the question is if they will continue or not. 2012 does not look promising, there's nothing you can point to and say this is why the economy will take off. In fact there are some reason why it won't, troubles in europe, china, the middle east. We've done nothing here in the US to improve the climate for business, so while we may see modest improvements for a time, it's not likely to be sustained.

 

[JoeB131]

1) Obamination claimed the Porkulus would keep unemployment below 8% yet you idiots are celebrating 8.5%.

2) Seasonal hires over the holiday season inflated the numbers.

3) Some people are no longer being reported as out of work since they quit looking.

4) The DoD budget cuts to cover Obamination's pork spending will quickly drive unemployment back up once troops and civilians are laid off in the next 1-2 years.

1- Only one official claimed that, and claimed it if the FULL proposal was implemented, not the watered down version that was more tax cuts than spending items.

2- somewhat true, although the breakdown in the figures show increases in Manufacturing. Also, figures are adjusted to take holiday hiring into account.

3- This is true. (See, being fair, admitting when you have a valid point.)

4- Not entirely clear. Military spending is never cost-efficient. Investing that money into health care, infrastructure or education would produce more jobs. Also, sorry, the cuts in the military are actually pretty mimimal. 400 Billion over 10 years in a budget that runs 700 billion a year.

 

[JoeB131]

Those jobs numbers are better, but the question is if they will continue or not. 2012 does not look promising, there's nothing you can point to and say this is why the economy will take off. In fact there are some reason why it won't, troubles in europe, china, the middle east. We've done nothing here in the US to improve the climate for business, so while we may see modest improvements for a time, it's not likely to be sustained.

Actually, most economists are predicting strong growth in 2012 and employers have pretty much maxed out on productivity. So some hiring will probably go on.

My opinion, not enough, and we need to be thinking a lot bigger.

 

[mudwhistle]

Private employers added 212,00 jobs, moving the total of private-sector jobs created in 2011 to 1.9 million. Governments, particularly at the local level, cut jobs — 12,000 last month — holding overall job growth for the year to 1.6 million.

U.S. adds 200,000 jobs in Dec.; unemployment drops to 8.5% - The Washington Post

Did I hear someone say no private sector jobs were being created?

I'm trying to figure out how a net loss of jobs equals a decrease in unemployment.

If you're looking for good news then you can find it. If you're looking at everything then you have to admit that the numbers are not good.

We still have 44.2% long-term unemployed still looking for work.
There are 7 million fewer people with jobs now than at the end of 2007.
The labor force has shrank since 2009.
8.1 million workers are working part-time instead of full-time now.
Millions of unemployed are running out of benefits.

The fact is the 8.5% unemployment rate doesn't tell the whole story. However that doesn't stop the media from trying to put a positive spin on it. One of the sneaky ways is omitting the fact that no President has ever been reelected with over 7.2% unemployment. But considering the fact that we hit 10% at one time and stayed at over 9% for so long, simply dipping below that number seems good but really isn't.

Another thing they fail to mention is what exactly did Obama do to cause the rate to go down? Was it simply because he's no longer in a position to screw it up anymore???

I knew over a year ago when the GOP took back the House that the economy would improve. Obama's BS has simply delayed the improvement. That's really it in a nut-shell.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Uh, DoD spending is more productive for our economy than dumping it into green jobs or whatever crap you like.

Also, DoD spending maintains peace for our global economy, so it's kinda hard to enjoy your lifestyle if Iran cuts off the oil, China cuts off our trade partners in Asia, etc, etc, etc.

The reality is Obamination wasted money with his Porkulus and other spending over the years and now thinks slicing up the military and laying off troops and civilians within the DoD is a good thing.

1) Obamination claimed the Porkulus would keep unemployment below 8% yet you idiots are celebrating 8.5%.

2) Seasonal hires over the holiday season inflated the numbers.

3) Some people are no longer being reported as out of work since they quit looking.

4) The DoD budget cuts to cover Obamination's pork spending will quickly drive unemployment back up once troops and civilians are laid off in the next 1-2 years.

1- Only one official claimed that, and claimed it if the FULL proposal was implemented, not the watered down version that was more tax cuts than spending items.

2- somewhat true, although the breakdown in the figures show increases in Manufacturing. Also, figures are adjusted to take holiday hiring into account.

3- This is true. (See, being fair, admitting when you have a valid point.)

4- Not entirely clear. Military spending is never cost-efficient. Investing that money into health care, infrastructure or education would produce more jobs. Also, sorry, the cuts in the military are actually pretty mimimal. 400 Billion over 10 years in a budget that runs 700 billion a year.

 

[Wiseacre]

Those jobs numbers are better, but the question is if they will continue or not. 2012 does not look promising, there's nothing you can point to and say this is why the economy will take off. In fact there are some reason why it won't, troubles in europe, china, the middle east. We've done nothing here in the US to improve the climate for business, so while we may see modest improvements for a time, it's not likely to be sustained.

Actually, most economists are predicting strong growth in 2012 and employers have pretty much maxed out on productivity. So some hiring will probably go on.

My opinion, not enough, and we need to be thinking a lot bigger.

Really? From Reuters:

(Reuters) - An acceleration in the pace of U.S. economic growth in the second half of this year is expected to ebb as 2012 gets underway, although the odds of another recession have receded to one-in-four, a Reuters poll showed on Wednesday.

Encouraged by a recent pick-up in economic data, the consensus from more than 60 respondents showed a better view on the final three months of the year and 2011 overall.

But the pace of is expected to wane from an annualized 2.5 percent in the third quarter, and growth is not expected to get back to that rate again until the final quarter of next year.

More fiscal restraint, uncertainty surrounding the euro zone sovereign debt crisis and lackluster consumer sentiment and spending are all seen taking some of the steam out of growth early next year.

"We have positive momentum to carry us through to the early part of next year, but the headwinds are still going to cap the pace of growth," said Scott Brown, chief economist at Raymond James.

Apart from a raging euro zone sovereign debt crisis that has a chokehold on global financial markets and that is now gripping Italy, uncertainty over U.S. fiscal policy also clouds the outlook for the start of 2012.

A payroll tax holiday and federal unemployment benefit program are set to expire, while a special committee of lawmakers is meeting to reach a deal on reducing the federal deficit.

"There are a number of things coming together with regards to fiscal policy that makes early next year look very iffy," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics.

.
.

However, growth expectations for next year were revised down modestly, with a 1.7 percent expansion in GDP anticipated in the first quarter, down from earlier forecasts of 1.8 percent. The consensus for the second quarter slipped to 2.0 percent from 2.1 percent.

Economists appeared to have greater conviction about their 2012 GDP outlook as the difference between the highest and lowest projection fell to 2.0 percentage points from 3.2, the narrowest in a year.

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, DoD spending is more productive for our economy than dumping it into green jobs or whatever crap you like.

Also, DoD spending maintains peace for our global economy, so it's kinda hard to enjoy your lifestyle if Iran cuts off the oil, China cuts off our trade partners in Asia, etc, etc, etc.

The reality is Obamination wasted money with his Porkulus and other spending over the years and now thinks slicing up the military and laying off troops and civilians within the DoD is a good thing.
]

I'm always impressed by people who are completely against government waste, but turn a blind eye to the military, which exceeds at finding ways to waste money.

Also, DoD spending maintains peace for our global economy, so it's kinda hard to enjoy your lifestyle if Iran cuts off the oil, China cuts off our trade partners in Asia, etc, etc, etc.

Wait a minute. You mean instead of letting the rest of the world slowly suck us dry, we might actually have to become- gasp- self reliant?

Trade with Asia isn't good if Americans are getting poorer and Asians are getting richer.

 

[GoneBezerk]

You're a fucking idiot if you think letting China, Iran and/or Russia use their military to invade their neighbors or cut off the free flow of goods to us and the world is not a big deal for us.

We are in every corner of the planet to protect our economic interests while maintaining the peace and stability for other people that we enjoy here within our borders.

Weakening our military so that we cannot quickly respond to Russia, China or Iran which could give them the dangerous idea of even doing something really stupid in the long run is more costly and deadly. Go learn about the 1930s....

Uh, DoD spending is more productive for our economy than dumping it into green jobs or whatever crap you like.

Also, DoD spending maintains peace for our global economy, so it's kinda hard to enjoy your lifestyle if Iran cuts off the oil, China cuts off our trade partners in Asia, etc, etc, etc.

The reality is Obamination wasted money with his Porkulus and other spending over the years and now thinks slicing up the military and laying off troops and civilians within the DoD is a good thing.
]

I'm always impressed by people who are completely against government waste, but turn a blind eye to the military, which exceeds at finding ways to waste money.

Also, DoD spending maintains peace for our global economy, so it's kinda hard to enjoy your lifestyle if Iran cuts off the oil, China cuts off our trade partners in Asia, etc, etc, etc.

Wait a minute. You mean instead of letting the rest of the world slowly suck us dry, we might actually have to become- gasp- self reliant?

Trade with Asia isn't good if Americans are getting poorer and Asians are getting richer.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Those are cooked stats.

Here are some accurate ones with commentary.
NFP Payrolls At 200K, Expected At 155K; Unemployment Rate Drops To 8.5%, Labor Force Participation At Lowest Since 1984 | ZeroHedge

The nonfarm payroll number prints at 200K on expectations of 155K. The Unemployment rate comes at 8.5% - lowest since February 2009, and down from an upward revised 8.7%. U-6 15.2% down from 15.6% in November. Average hourly earnings rose at 0.2%, in line with expectations, previous revised to -0.1% from unchanged. Private payrolls +212L vs Expectations of 178K. Manufacturing payrolls rose 23K vs Expectations of 155K. Yet the unemployment rate trickery still continues, with labor force participation (prior revised), now at a 27 year low of 64%, and the labor force itself declined by 50K from 153,937 to 153,887. In fact, persons not in the labor force have increased by 7.5 million since January 2007! Bottom line - dropping out of labor statistics is the new killing it.

If you want to see what is REALLY happening with employment in this country, you have to look at the labor force numbers, not the cranked up crap by politicized statisticians.
Look at these numbers:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/12/Labor Force Dec.jpg

What has the duration of unemployment looked like since 2009? Data shows unemployment was at 20 weeks, then increased to 30 weeks by 2010 before reaching 40 weeks in 2011.

For December alone, when the media reports unemployment drop below 9%, those unemployed for over 27 weeks still represented 42.5% of Americans looking for work.

see the complete breakdown at Duration of Unemployment | Department of Numbers


underemployment rate as of Jan 2, 2012 is at 18.20% with a long term average of 18.79%. Does this really equate to an improvement in the overall economy under the policy decisions of President Obama? Is this the Hope and Change that he promised many Americans when he took office? For those still looking to earn a living, without relying on an unemployment check, I doubt Obama will be the answer for those who are serious about finding a job.

underemployment numbers history can be found at http://ycharts.com/indicators/underemployment_rate

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Something you can comfort yourself with when Obama gets a second term.

The reality- we still haven't addressed the real problems of our economy because the people who really run things aren't done grinding down the American Middle Class yet. But neither party is ready to address THAT issue.

He might. He might not.

But your case is hard to make given that as recently as 2007 the unemployment rate was about 5%, and had been that for nearly a decade.
I see that bigotry has made you stupid, as it always does.

It was 4.2% when Bush took office, got up to 6.3%, and down to 5.5%. After that wild ride, people still re-elected Bush.

This time, it was 7.8 when Obama took office, hit a high of 10% and is now down to 8.5%. It could be below 7.5% by November, and if so, Obama can claim success. Doesn't deserve to, the bigger problems aren't being addressed and he's drinking the same Free Trade Koolaid that the rest of the establishment is drinking.

Obama's not running against 2007, he's running against the situation he found in 2009 when he took office. I think his performance has been limp, but not enough to vote for degenerate like Romney.

If Ron Paul runs as an independent, there is still the issue of those voters (sick of both parties bickering) siding with him for real change. Those voters will be enough to give Obama the re-election edge he is desperate for, like Ross Perot was able to do for President Clinton.

 

[JoeB131]

You're a fucking idiot if you think letting China, Iran and/or Russia use their military to invade their neighbors or cut off the free flow of goods to us and the world is not a big deal for us.

We are in every corner of the planet to protect our economic interests while maintaining the peace and stability for other people that we enjoy here within our borders.

Weakening our military so that we cannot quickly respond to Russia, China or Iran which could give them the dangerous idea of even doing something really stupid in the long run is more costly and deadly. Go learn about the 1930s....

First, Russia hasn't invaded anyone since 1979 and for that matter, neither has China. And in both cases, it turned into major fiascos for them.

But we are bankrupting ourselves by protecting the rest of the world while they undercut our economy by taking our middle class jobs? And you really think this is a good idea? I mean, really?

I think the problem is you mistake Big Corporate Economic Interests for "our" economic interests.

 

[KissMy]

OBAMA IS THE WORST JOBS PRESIDENT EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GoneBezerk]

The world economy has been stable mostly because we are everywhere making sure others behave in their corner of the world. Dumb people like you don't know history.

You ignore the good results of the US military being in Europe, Asia and the middle east while claiming we shouldn't be doing that work because China, Russia and Iran won't do anything because they've been held in check by the US military. You have circle jerk logic.

The DoD budget was getting cut prior to last week's promises of even more cuts, that is the point. The DoD budget cannot be sliced to bits making the US military weaker when China is building a powerhouse in their part of the world to influence Japan, South Korea, etc.

Also, slicing up the DoD budget will damage the economy in the long run since a lot of jobs will be lost in the high tech industries like aerospace. Nevermind the troops that will be sent packing to look for jobs in this economy.

All this slicing and dicing of the US military is to make up for wasted money on green/pork waste the past 3 years under Obamination. He blew all the money and now wants the DoD to take the brunt of the cuts for his mistakes.

This shit happened after the Great Depression where we had an inept military and played the isolation card which later led to the worst World War ever. You do not know history...

You're a fucking idiot if you think letting China, Iran and/or Russia use their military to invade their neighbors or cut off the free flow of goods to us and the world is not a big deal for us.

We are in every corner of the planet to protect our economic interests while maintaining the peace and stability for other people that we enjoy here within our borders.

Weakening our military so that we cannot quickly respond to Russia, China or Iran which could give them the dangerous idea of even doing something really stupid in the long run is more costly and deadly. Go learn about the 1930s....

First, Russia hasn't invaded anyone since 1979 and for that matter, neither has China. And in both cases, it turned into major fiascos for them.

But we are bankrupting ourselves by protecting the rest of the world while they undercut our economy by taking our middle class jobs? And you really think this is a good idea? I mean, really?

I think the problem is you mistake Big Corporate Economic Interests for "our" economic interests.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

1) Obamination claimed the Porkulus would keep unemployment below 8% yet you idiots are celebrating 8.5%.

2) Seasonal hires over the holiday season inflated the numbers.

3) Some people are no longer being reported as out of work since they quit looking.

4) The DoD budget cuts to cover Obamination's pork spending will quickly drive unemployment back up once troops and civilians are laid off in the next 1-2 years.

1- Only one official claimed that, and claimed it if the FULL proposal was implemented, not the watered down version that was more tax cuts than spending items.

2- somewhat true, although the breakdown in the figures show increases in Manufacturing. Also, figures are adjusted to take holiday hiring into account.

3- This is true. (See, being fair, admitting when you have a valid point.)

4- Not entirely clear. Military spending is never cost-efficient. Investing that money into health care, infrastructure or education would produce more jobs. Also, sorry, the cuts in the military are actually pretty mimimal. 400 Billion over 10 years in a budget that runs 700 billion a year.

A cut in military spending is easily swallowed up by an administration who only looks to unemployment extensions as the answer, while ignoring job creators like the Keystone pipeline. Our country can not go on financially, supporting those who are struggling for work or facing foreclosure. Have we not learned from Greece? Was the drop in our AAA rating, for the first time in our nation's history, NOT a wake up call to all this unsustainable increase in spending?

 

[Katzndogz]

You can get really good news if you cook the books enough.

The real unemployment rate is 11.4%. Having a jump like that would put obaabaa into a coma, so they just lie about it.

Real Jobless Rate Is 11.4% With Realistic Labor Force Participation Rate | ZeroHedge

 

[JoeB131]

You know, spanky, somehow I doubt you ever served in the military.

I was in the military for 11 years. They waste SHITLOADS of money.

The whole "Isolation" card is bullshit. It's long past time these rich countries manned up and defended their own corners of the world instead of letting us bankrupt ourselves doing it.

China isn't going to screw with us, we're their best customer. Of course, if they wanted to take Taiwan, there really isnt' all that much we could do about it.

The world economy has been stable mostly because we are everywhere making sure others behave in their corner of the world. Dumb people like you don't know history.

You ignore the good results of the US military being in Europe, Asia and the middle east while claiming we shouldn't be doing that work because China, Russia and Iran won't do anything because they've been held in check by the US military. You have circle jerk logic.

The DoD budget was getting cut prior to last week's promises of even more cuts, that is the point. The DoD budget cannot be sliced to bits making the US military weaker when China is building a powerhouse in their part of the world to influence Japan, South Korea, etc.

Also, slicing up the DoD budget will damage the economy in the long run since a lot of jobs will be lost in the high tech industries like aerospace. Nevermind the troops that will be sent packing to look for jobs in this economy.

All this slicing and dicing of the US military is to make up for wasted money on green/pork waste the past 3 years under Obamination. He blew all the money and now wants the DoD to take the brunt of the cuts for his mistakes.

This shit happened after the Great Depression where we had an inept military and played the isolation card which later led to the worst World War ever. You do not know history...

You're a fucking idiot if you think letting China, Iran and/or Russia use their military to invade their neighbors or cut off the free flow of goods to us and the world is not a big deal for us.

We are in every corner of the planet to protect our economic interests while maintaining the peace and stability for other people that we enjoy here within our borders.

Weakening our military so that we cannot quickly respond to Russia, China or Iran which could give them the dangerous idea of even doing something really stupid in the long run is more costly and deadly. Go learn about the 1930s....

First, Russia hasn't invaded anyone since 1979 and for that matter, neither has China. And in both cases, it turned into major fiascos for them.

But we are bankrupting ourselves by protecting the rest of the world while they undercut our economy by taking our middle class jobs? And you really think this is a good idea? I mean, really?

I think the problem is you mistake Big Corporate Economic Interests for "our" economic interests.

 

[The Rabbi]

You realize even 6% is historically pretty good. And that was high mark of Bush's tenure.
So obviously job growth was fine under Bush and all the screaming about off-shoring is coming from people with very short memories.

Actualy, the high point was 7.8 when he left. and the economy was bleeding jobs at that point.

And, yes, the offshoring is a problem. Replacing good paying union jobs with benefits with jobs at Wal Mart without benefits isn't an improvement, it's a step back.

But I never understood the fixation with factory jobs. WHo the hell wants to work in a factory?

I work in a factory, and I rather enjoy it. Mind you, I'm in the office, but I go down to the line pretty often to make sure things are going well.

If you don't understand why we need manufacturing capability, then I can only conclude you are some kind of high-functioning retard or something.

Except union jobs only account for a very small part of the private sector.
Wrong again.

If you can't explain why we need lots of factory jobs then you are an uneducated moron.
Actually you probably are anyway.
The truth, btw, is that we manufacture every bit as much as we always did. We have fewer people doing it not because of off-shoring but because of greater efficiency. We grow as much stuff as ever too even though the number of people in agriculture is at an all-time low.

 

[Trajan]

If Obama can get it below 8% he will be reelected.

You're probably correct, however unemployment doesn't have to break 8% for him to win. He can win as long as the unemployment picture is improving. The country was in the middle of the great depression in 1936, but the economic picture was improving and Roosevelt won by a landslide.

the lpr is stagnant or drops, and all is well, I see, in a 5.5%/68% environment Bush got hammered...

the media rarely makes the distinction and rarely discusses the counter intuitiveness of the numbers because it is not in their interest too now, obama must be reelected, so you are in all likely hood right, we will have oh, a 62 or 62.5% lpr but a sub 8% unemployment rate and the rubes will buy it.

the 4th estate = the 5th column...

 

[JoeB131]

Except union jobs only account for a very small part of the private sector.
Wrong again.

If you can't explain why we need lots of factory jobs then you are an uneducated moron.
Actually you probably are anyway.
The truth, btw, is that we manufacture every bit as much as we always did. We have fewer people doing it not because of off-shoring but because of greater efficiency. We grow as much stuff as ever too even though the number of people in agriculture is at an all-time low.

China is on pace to surprass us as the largest manufacturer by 2016. No, things are not hunky-dory in manufacturing right now, we've lost 25 million manufacturing jobs since 1980. And the service jobs aren't as good.

Yes, technology has improved, but we are posting annual trade deficits of 500 Billion a year.

In 1980, we were the world's biggest importer of raw materials and the world's largest exporter of finished goods. Now we are the world's largest exporter of raw materials and the largest importer of finished goods.

They have a phrase for that.

Third World Country.

Brought to you by bad trade policies and Bain Capital.