Two wrongs...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bullypulpit, Dec 24, 2005.

  1. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    ...Don't make a right. Yet that is exactly what right-wing pundits are doing when they point to Bill Clinton's alleged use of warrantless searches in 1995. I say 'alleged', as Clinton did sign an exectuive order which states,

    <blockquote>Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, <b>if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.</b></blockquote>

    (Full Text of U.S.C. 1822 found <a href=http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapters/36/subchapters/ii/sections/section_1822_notes.html>HERE</a>)

    Section 2 states, unequivocally, that the AG can authorize physical searches without a warrant "...for the purpose of collecting <b>foreign</b> intelligence information...." so long as the premises on which the search is conducted and all information gathered therein, are used <b>"exclusively" by a foreign power</b>.

    It should be noted that in 2004 a "lone wolf" amendment was added to FISA. A 'lone'wolf is defined as a non-US person who engages in, or plans for,international acts of terrorism.

    If Clinton did engage in an abuse of power as Bush has already admitted to doing, why didn't the Republican controlled Congress begin impeachment proceedings for high crimes and misdemeanors? They could have surely gotten more traction out of such a proceeding than they did with consensual sex in the Oval Office, and he would have richly deserved whatever punishment was meted out by Congress

    The upshot of this is that the President, under Title III and FISA can order warrantless searches against <b><i>non-US citizens</i></b>. The president does not, however, have carte blanche to order domestic surveillance of US citizens on US soil without a warrant. The Constitution trumps presidential perogative on this matter at every turn. And for those who have forgotten, the Constitution was established to protect US citizens from the abuses of power by the government, such as those perpetrated by Bush, regardless of the circumstances.

    The remarkable lack of imagination shown by the conservative talking heads as they continue to point their grubby fingers at Clinton is indicative of just how indefensible Bush's actions are in this matter. Their shrill whining about how "Clinton did it too!" are nothing more than a vain attempt to distract from Bush's sins. But, Bush, having confessed to high crimes and misdemeanors in a nationally televised address makes it very difficult to put any polish on that turd. And if Clinton engaged in such an abuse of power, he should be have to pay the price. But a Republican controlled Congress seems to have chosen to ignore that particular sin, if it ever happened at all.
     
  2. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    actually it is three wrongs....carter did it as well....what proof do you have he that they sspyed on US citizen's....and you know what...spy on me all you like...i do nothing wrong so i don't give a shit
     
  3. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Bully, I believe these facts are mentioned to illustrate the double standard the left has for "their guys". As usual, your understanding is lacking. And that's two gerunds; one's the subject, the other an appositive.
     
  4. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I get a freebe here, because pulit doesn't see my posts anyway...

    ... PULIT, EVERYTHING YOU POST IS FUCKING REDICULOUS LIBERAL BULLSHIT!!! :asshole: :finger3: :funnyface
     
  5. BaronVonBigmeat
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    BaronVonBigmeat Senior Member

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    It was established to restrict the federal government, period. I don't see where it limits itself to US citizens. Unless I've missed something, which is possible. ;)

    Not that any of this excuses Bush. It's always possible that both were wrong.
     
  6. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    Where my understanding may be lacking, yours is totally absent. Your blind willingness to accept the power of an unchecked presidency is what the Adminstration and its supporters count on to drive their fear based policies.

    As Herman Goering said at Nuremberg:

    <blockquote>"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."</blockquote>
     
  7. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    What proof of your assertion regarding Carter's domestic spying operations do you offer? As for Dubbyuh's, he admitted his crimes in a nationally televised address on December 17th.

    As for your last statement, the majority of Russians sent to Stalin's gulags were also innocent. They were the victims of domestic spying operations. And have you so quickly forgotten the STASI files that were opened up after the fall of East Germany? The most innocent of activities could be, and were, regarded with suspicion be the East German government. So just be a good fellow and wear your yoke and chains without protest.
     
  8. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Bully, I know this is hard for you to comprehend. But nothing the President has done is against the law.

    The President isnt sending people to gulags. We aren't incinerating people.

    I know you hate the President for some odd reason, but if you are going to attack him atleast try to challenge him reasonably. Poisoning the well doesnt help any debate.
     
  9. Stephanie
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    Stephanie Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    My take from Bully's post is.....
    What's good for the Democrat goose, is Not good for the Republican gander.... :boohoo:
     

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