Two never-finished Navy ships headed to scrap yard 300 million down the drain.

we could cut our medicare budget by 25% by just cutting waste.

damn , that was easy...;)

Yep we could. we do not need to buy scooters and such, and lets put some teeth in medicare fraud laws.
Make the fine 200% of the money defrauded so it is not just a cost of doing business.

well I have to agree on one thing, that Hoveround gig? brother, you know how much medicare pays for one of those?

Power Wheelchairs & Mobility Power Chairs | Hoveround

so you do not agree with the 200% fine for fraud?
 
I wonder what they are going to do with the unfinished Army Berets? Look at it this way, what they spent on the ships so far is like a shovel ready Obama job stimulous program. They don't actually have to produce anything. All they have to do is hire government workers for a while.
 
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The CBO numbers tally what has been spent so far in Iraq.
The total cost will be multiples of their number, if history is any judge.

"The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes
Sunday, September 5, 2010

"Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion.

"This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond
 
We could cut our mililtary budget by 25% just by cutting waste.
War takes money from productive Americans and gives it to arms manufacturers and. increasingly, private armies. The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion, Afghanistan will consume half a trillion dollars and Libya looks to haul in its first billion by September.

Fifty percent of discretionary spending goes to the Pentagon which is nothing but a massive transfer of wealth into the hands of a few already rich Americans while the majority of their countrymen lack sufficient jobs, health care and housing, not to mention retirement security.

Debt Political Theater Diverts Attention While Americans' Wealth Is Stolen | Common Dreams

The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion,

links please

In any case it will cost more than the 40 billion the administration was touting when trying to get approval from congress for the invasion.
 
Yep we could. we do not need to buy scooters and such, and lets put some teeth in medicare fraud laws.
Make the fine 200% of the money defrauded so it is not just a cost of doing business.

well I have to agree on one thing, that Hoveround gig? brother, you know how much medicare pays for one of those?

Power Wheelchairs & Mobility Power Chairs | Hoveround

so you do not agree with the 200% fine for fraud?

sure no sweat...why not:lol:
 
The CBO numbers tally what has been spent so far in Iraq.
The total cost will be multiples of their number, if history is any judge.

"The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes
Sunday, September 5, 2010

"Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion.

"This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!
 
War takes money from productive Americans and gives it to arms manufacturers and. increasingly, private armies. The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion, Afghanistan will consume half a trillion dollars and Libya looks to haul in its first billion by September.

Fifty percent of discretionary spending goes to the Pentagon which is nothing but a massive transfer of wealth into the hands of a few already rich Americans while the majority of their countrymen lack sufficient jobs, health care and housing, not to mention retirement security.

Debt Political Theater Diverts Attention While Americans' Wealth Is Stolen | Common Dreams

The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion,

links please

In any case it will cost more than the 40 billion the administration was touting when trying to get approval from congress for the invasion.

yes we know that...and?
 
War takes money from productive Americans and gives it to arms manufacturers and. increasingly, private armies. The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion, Afghanistan will consume half a trillion dollars and Libya looks to haul in its first billion by September.

Fifty percent of discretionary spending goes to the Pentagon which is nothing but a massive transfer of wealth into the hands of a few already rich Americans while the majority of their countrymen lack sufficient jobs, health care and housing, not to mention retirement security.

Debt Political Theater Diverts Attention While Americans' Wealth Is Stolen | Common Dreams

The lie in Iraq will cost $3 trillion,

links please

In any case it will cost more than the 40 billion the administration was touting when trying to get approval from congress for the invasion.
You do remember the invasion's first acronym?
O.I.L.

"When the United States went to war in Iraq, the price of oil was less than $25 a barrel, and futures markets expected it to remain around that level. With the war, prices started to soar, reaching $140 a barrel by 2008.

"We believe that the war and its impact on the Middle East, the largest supplier of oil in the world, were major factors. Not only was Iraqi production interrupted, but the instability the war brought to the Middle East dampened investment in the region."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond
 
*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!

Same logic used about the debt Obama has created. 70 year predictions or somesuch.
 
links please

In any case it will cost more than the 40 billion the administration was touting when trying to get approval from congress for the invasion.
You do remember the invasion's first acronym?
O.I.L.

"When the United States went to war in Iraq, the price of oil was less than $25 a barrel, and futures markets expected it to remain around that level. With the war, prices started to soar, reaching $140 a barrel by 2008.

"We believe that the war and its impact on the Middle East, the largest supplier of oil in the world, were major factors. Not only was Iraqi production interrupted, but the instability the war brought to the Middle East dampened investment in the region."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

what do you think Cheney's secret energy policy meetings were about?
 
*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!
No...they factor in all costs of the Iraq war, those that have already been "paid for" as well as those yet to come.

"There is no question that the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt.

"This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war.

"The result: a war completely funded by borrowing.

"U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war.

"And that doesn't include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond
 
And all paid for outside the budget under Bush.
Obama included it in his budget which made it immediately look worse than Bush's.
 
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!
No...they factor in all costs of the Iraq war, those that have already been "paid for" as well as those yet to come.

"There is no question that the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt.

"This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war.

"The result: a war completely funded by borrowing.

"U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war.

"And that doesn't include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

god thats so full of shit. :lol:
 
Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!
No...they factor in all costs of the Iraq war, those that have already been "paid for" as well as those yet to come.

"There is no question that the Iraq war added substantially to the federal debt.

"This was the first time in American history that the government cut taxes as it went to war.

"The result: a war completely funded by borrowing.

"U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war.

"And that doesn't include future health care and disability payments for veterans, which will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

god thats so full of shit. :lol:

just like saying Obama added 30 trillion to the debt.

And hey we are not even out of Iraq yet, so the cost is not known.
 
Why complain? The 300 Million wasn't wasted just because the ships aren't commissioned in the Navy. Thay have been an income source since the late 80's for welders, steamfitters, and a hundred other occupations connected to ship building. I expect there are people who spent their entire working life on these ships and retired. You could probably find a couple of hundred ambulance chasing lawyers who made a career out of these ships also. It's government stimulous at it's best.
 
Thanks for the good link.

It seems an excellent source for government expenses to date but doesn't offer much in the way of costs that are yet to come, i.e., VA benefits, or the cost of the wars' broader impact on the US economy.

"Moreover, two years on, it has become clear to us that our estimate did not capture what may have been the conflict's most sobering expenses: those in the category of 'might have beens,' or what economists call opportunity costs.

"For instance, many have wondered aloud whether, absent the Iraq invasion, we would still be stuck in Afghanistan. And this is not the only 'what if worth contemplating.

"We might also ask: If not for the war in Iraq, would oil prices have risen so rapidly?

"Would the federal debt be so high?

"Would the economic crisis have been so severe?

"The answer to all four of these questions is probably no.

"The central lesson of economics is that resources -- including both money and attention -- are scarce. What was devoted to one theater, Iraq, was not available elsewhere."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

Oh I see, so they start at a figure that is HUGELY of base then point the picture to get there, wonderful!!!!!

Same logic used about the debt Obama has created. 70 year predictions or somesuch.
"U.S. debt soared from $6.4 trillion in March 2003 to $10 trillion in 2008 (before the financial crisis); at least a quarter of that increase is directly attributable to the war."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond
 
links please
What would you consider a credible source?

Do you think Dennis would lie about this?

"The war in Iraq, based on lies: $3 trillion will be the cost of that war. The war in Afghanistan; based on a misreading of history; half a trillion dollars in expenses already. The war against Libya will be $1 billion by September."

Debt Political Theater Diverts Attention While Americans' Wealth Is Stolen | Common Dreams

would the CBO?
CBO: Eight Years of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act - FoxNews.com
According to CBO numbers in its Budget and Economic Outlook published this month, the cost of Operation Iraqi Freedom was $709 billion for military and related activities, including training of Iraqi forces and diplomatic operations.

This is how much it was costing in 2006 & I suspect approximately what its costing in AfPak presently:
Congressional analysis puts cost of Iraq war at $2 billion a week - The Boston Globe
As to the stimulus:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refer...d_states_economy/economic_stimulus/index.html
The final bill includes $507 billion in spending programs and $282 billion in tax relief, including a scaled-back version of Mr. Obama's middle-class tax cut proposal, which would give credits of up to $400 for individuals and $800 for families within certain income limits.
 
Last edited:
The CBO numbers tally what has been spent so far in Iraq.
The total cost will be multiples of their number, if history is any judge.

"The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes
Sunday, September 5, 2010

"Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion.

"This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
included in the 3 trillion figure is the cost for all disabled vets that returned home, and are drawing disability and are receiving medical care and will be for their remaining lives, from my understanding? and the cbo did not include these VA expenses that are directly related to iraq in their figures
 
The CBO numbers tally what has been spent so far in Iraq.
The total cost will be multiples of their number, if history is any judge.

"The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes
Sunday, September 5, 2010

"Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion.

"This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war."

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond

*sigh*


here ya go george..

page 7.....congressional research service.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf
included in the 3 trillion figure is the cost for all disabled vets that returned home, and are drawing disability and are receiving medical care and will be for their remaining lives, from my understanding? and the cbo did not include these VA expenses that are directly related to iraq in their figures
Stiglitz and Bilmes estimate future health care and disability payments for veterans will add another half-trillion dollars to the debt.

Maybe defense contractors and rich individuals who made the most profit from the war should get the bill for this one?

The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond
 

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