Two cultures: Hunters and Gatherers vs Free Stuff

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Foxfyre, Feb 16, 2012.

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Check all that apply: Adult Americans have a right to be provided with

  1. Food

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  2. Clothing

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  3. Shelter/Housing

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  4. Furniture/appliances

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  5. Water, heat, air conditioning

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  6. An education

    8 vote(s)
    13.6%
  7. Health care

    6 vote(s)
    10.2%
  8. A living wage or income

    5 vote(s)
    8.5%
  9. Transportation

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  10. None of the above

    52 vote(s)
    88.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    As an adult American, you have a fundamental right to be provided:

    1. Food
    2. Clothing
    3. Shelter/housing
    4. Furniture/appliances
    5. Water, heat, air conditioning
    6. An education
    7. Health care/medical care
    8. A living wage
    9. Transportation
    10. None of the above


    Fifty or sixty years ago, the nation still had rich people and much less affluent people, but both groups shared essentially the same traditional values of honor, personal integrity, accountablility and responsibility and appreciation for time honored institutions of marriage, church, and local education. There were as many different circumstances, personalities and differences of opinion as ever, but essentially America was one culture of individual initiative and unlimited opportunity. This was a people that valued personal freedoms, integrity, responsibility, fiscal accountability, and American exceptionalism.

    But over the decades we seem to be dividing into two distinct cultures. One is still firmly implanted in that culture of fifty/sixty years ago. The other is one that increasingly looks to society to fulfill their expectations and their basic needs. It is a culture of assumed victimization, excuses, sense of entitlement, blame, and resentment of those who seem to have already achieved the American dream. Concern for deficits, the national debt, the cost, results, or effect is not as important as meeting the needs and wants of the group.

    And while of course there will be degrees of dynamics between these two extremes, the theory is that we have become two tribes. One are the hunters and gatherers as a matter of personal honor. The other are those who want the free stuff and honestly believe that the best society provides it.

    Agree or disagree. I do think it is time that America has this debate.

    (Can we keep this reasonably civil please?)
     
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  2. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    I love your thread.

    January 11, 1944 FDR assigned various 'rights' to Americans.

    Among these are:
    The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
    The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
    The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
    The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
    The right of every family to a decent home;
    The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
    The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
    The right to a good education.

    But, these are hardly rights.
    Rights are God-given, and require no one else to participate in their assignment. Speech is a right.

    Entitlements require that someone provide same, and, most often, that others be deprived of something in order to provide the entitlement.
    The huge tax burden necessary to provide the ‘rights’ and fund federal welfare programs can be laid at the feet of the New Deal. Before 1940, only 5% of Americans paid any income tax, and the maximum was 25%. By the end of WWII, 2/3 of American families paid income tax- and it started at 24%, with a $500 exemption.

    a. It went up to 94% over $200k. So, if one earned $300k, one kept only $6000 of the last $100k.

    b. Withholding was re-introduced so the government got the money immediately. (Had been repealed in 1916.)

    The attitude of the FDR government can be seen in these words of A.B. “Happy” Chandler, a former Kentucky governor:
    “[A]ll of us owe the government; we owe it for everything we have—and that is the basis of obligation—and the government can take everything we have if the government needs it. . . . The government can assert its right to have all the taxes it needs for any purpose, either now or at any time in the future.”
    From "FDR Goes To War," by Burton and Anita Folsom
     
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  3. LordBrownTrout
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    LordBrownTrout Gold Member

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    10.

    We have the right to personal security, personal liberty, and private property. These three do not depend on any constitution. Every man or woman is entitled to these rights.
     
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  4. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    So is FDR's list that PC posted what most of us believe?

    Or should there be a qualifier in there, something to the effect that All Americans have the right to equal opportunity to ASPIRE to all the items on FDR's list? That would not necessarily assume that everybody starts out with the same advantages.
     
  5. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    A right to what? Justice.
     
  6. bayoubill
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    bayoubill aka Sheik Yerbouti... Supporting Member

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    you forgot to mention the right to have spell-checks for headers on discussion sites... :cool:
     
  7. Nosmo King
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    Nosmo King Gold Member

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    What evidence can you present that the privileged class still is implanted in that culture of fifty/sixty years ago? If they are keepers of traditional values of honor, personal integrity, accountability and responsibility and appreciation for time honored institutions of marriage, church, and local education, why are there folks who take multi million dollar bonuses after their companies lay off hundreds of thousands? Why would they cut so many jobs if they are encumbered with the virtues of personal integrity, accountability and responsibility? Communities have been shattered as a result of their decisions to favor Asian labor over American.

    And local education is vilified by that class as indoctrination and ineffective.

    I can see how it would be easy to dismiss the less advantaged as leeches. A certain level of contempt for those one views as lower in social and economic status is expected from those who think they have no responsibility to those who they themselves have taken advantage of. Like emotional scar tissue, it's helpful to minimize the p[light of the poor to insulate against the guilt after plundering them.

    I don't think the advantaged have retained the high moral ground. I think they stole it.
     
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  8. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Capitalism started it all with it's "you deserve" advertising themes.
     
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  9. bripat9643
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    bripat9643 Diamond Member

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    The Soviet Constitution included the same list of "rights."
     
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  10. bripat9643
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    bripat9643 Diamond Member

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    Yeah, right, we have welfare because of corporate marketing strategy.

    :cuckoo:
     

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