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Tussling Over Jesus

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Modbert, Jan 29, 2011.

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Jan 29, 2011 #1

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Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/opinion/27kristof.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

Yet the person giving Jesus the heave-ho in this case was not a Bethlehem innkeeper. Nor was it an overzealous mayor angering conservatives by pulling down Christmas decorations. Rather, it was a prominent bishop, Thomas Olmsted, stripping St. Josephs Hospital and Medical Center in Phoenix of its affiliation with the Roman Catholic diocese.

The hospitals offense? It had terminated a pregnancy to save the life of the mother. The hospital says the 27-year-old woman, a mother of four children, would almost certainly have died otherwise.
Click to expand...

Bishop Olmsted initially excommunicated a nun, Sister Margaret McBride, who had been on the hospitals ethics committee and had approved of the decision. That seems to have been a failed attempt to bully the hospital into submission, but it refused to cave and continues to employ Sister Margaret. Now the bishop, in effect, is excommunicating the entire hospital all because it saved a womans life.
Click to expand...

Make no mistake: This clash of values is a bellwether of a profound disagreement that is playing out at many Catholic hospitals around the country. These hospitals are part of the backbone of American health care, amounting to 15 percent of hospital beds.
Click to expand...

The National Womens Law Center has just issued a report quoting doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals as saying that sometimes they are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives. More clashes are likely as the church hierarchy grows more conservative, and as hospitals and laity grow more impatient with bishops who seem increasingly out of touch.
Click to expand...

Thoughts USMB?
Jan 29, 2011 #2

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Truthmatters BANNED

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women are not as important to some cultures
Jan 29, 2011 #3

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elvis BANNED Supporting Member

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I heard about this story. I am no fan of the catholic church, but the nun and hospital knew the rules ahead of time. They are very clearly stated.
Jan 29, 2011 #4

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Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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elvis said: ↑

I heard about this story. I am no fan of the catholic church, but the nun and hospital knew the rules ahead of time. They are very clearly stated.
Click to expand...

They did know the rules, however, I definitely don't agree with what the church did here.

Also, what are your thoughts on the second story in the article? Specifically, this one:

The National Womens Law Center has just issued a report quoting doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals as saying that sometimes they are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder whether or how that is legal.
Jan 29, 2011 #5

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elvis BANNED Supporting Member

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Modbert said: ↑

elvis said: ↑

I heard about this story. I am no fan of the catholic church, but the nun and hospital knew the rules ahead of time. They are very clearly stated.
Click to expand...

They did know the rules, however, I definitely don't agree with what the church did here.

Also, what are your thoughts on the second story in the article? Specifically, this one:

The National Womens Law Center has just issued a report quoting doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals as saying that sometimes they are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder whether or how that is legal.
Click to expand...

The catholic church and the hospital has to be sure the doctor is performing an ectopic pregnancy procedure and not an abortion.... so you may have people sticking their noses in who don't belong, which can make the doctor's job difficult.
Jan 29, 2011 #6

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RadiomanATL Senior Member

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Tussling over Jesus?

Sounds like priest on priest ghey wrestling.
Jan 29, 2011 #7

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Modbert said: ↑

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/opinion/27kristof.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

Yet the person giving Jesus the heave-ho in this case was not a Bethlehem innkeeper. Nor was it an overzealous mayor angering conservatives by pulling down Christmas decorations. Rather, it was a prominent bishop, Thomas Olmsted, stripping St. Josephs Hospital and Medical Center in Phoenix of its affiliation with the Roman Catholic diocese.

The hospitals offense? It had terminated a pregnancy to save the life of the mother. The hospital says the 27-year-old woman, a mother of four children, would almost certainly have died otherwise.
Click to expand...

Bishop Olmsted initially excommunicated a nun, Sister Margaret McBride, who had been on the hospitals ethics committee and had approved of the decision. That seems to have been a failed attempt to bully the hospital into submission, but it refused to cave and continues to employ Sister Margaret. Now the bishop, in effect, is excommunicating the entire hospital all because it saved a womans life.
Click to expand...

Make no mistake: This clash of values is a bellwether of a profound disagreement that is playing out at many Catholic hospitals around the country. These hospitals are part of the backbone of American health care, amounting to 15 percent of hospital beds.
Click to expand...

The National Womens Law Center has just issued a report quoting doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals as saying that sometimes they are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives. More clashes are likely as the church hierarchy grows more conservative, and as hospitals and laity grow more impatient with bishops who seem increasingly out of touch.
Click to expand...

Thoughts USMB?
Click to expand...

Catholic hospitals are private hospitals. If you don't want religion taking a hand in your health care...find a different hospital.

Historically the mother can just die..they don't give a shit.

Religion has no business in making medical decisions. EVER. Good for the decisions that were made to save the mother. Fuck the chruch.
- Thank You! x 1
Jan 30, 2011 #8

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elvis BANNED Supporting Member

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Modbert said: ↑

elvis said: ↑

I heard about this story. I am no fan of the catholic church, but the nun and hospital knew the rules ahead of time. They are very clearly stated.
Click to expand...

They did know the rules, however, I definitely don't agree with what the church did here.

Also, what are your thoughts on the second story in the article? Specifically, this one:

The National Womens Law Center has just issued a report quoting doctors at Catholic-affiliated hospitals as saying that sometimes they are forced by church doctrine to provide substandard care to women with miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies in ways that can leave the women infertile or even endanger their lives.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder whether or how that is legal.
Click to expand...

what you have to understand it that the catholic church believes at the very least that the doctor, nun, and hospital played God in that situation, which they see as blasphemy.
The nun should not be surprised she was excommunicated.
Jan 30, 2011 #9

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"Find another hospital" is an empty offer in many cases. Few patients understand these policies, and none can choose to relocate once the emergency has begun. Unless things have changed a whole lot, women choose their Ob/Gyns and deliver in whichever hospital they are affiliated with -- they dun make a heap big deal out of investigating hospitals.

It's despicable and if the stories of rendering women infertile without cause are true, it's criminal.
Jan 30, 2011 #10

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Madeline said: ↑

"Find another hospital" is an empty offer in many cases. Few patients understand these policies, and none can choose to relocate once the emergency has begun. Unless things have changed a whole lot, women choose their Ob/Gyns and deliver in whichever hospital they are affiliated with -- they dun make a heap big deal out of investigating hospitals.

It's despicable and if the stories of rendering women infertile without cause are true, it's criminal.
Click to expand...

Hello? Catholic hospital. Ya got nuns and persists running around. And yes you have a long time to think about where you deliver your baby. Somewhere where the decision for life may be made without your life being taken into account or somewhere your life comes first.

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