Tuscon Arizona school district bans racial hatred books

[BillyV]

Advancing the truth agenda isnt an option huh?

These are public schools; they exist to teach kids to read and write so they can become productive citizens, and are supported by tax dollars from many different races and ideologies. I don't advocate lying to them, but I see no reason that we should teach division. We are all Americans, not Mexican Americans, European Americans, African Americans, or Asian Americans (sorry if I left any out; I know there are at least 100 more). The more we advocate for dividing people into groups and sub-groups, the more difficult it is to live together as one nation. Everyone then is a protected class, a downtrodden class, a discriminated against class. Teach them the basics that they need to know to discover their own ideologies. We need to teach them how to think, not what to think.

Part of school is learning about our history. If that history leads some to believe America is terrible, is it the schools responsibility to reverse that by lying?

History is full of good and bad stories...It seems you believe telling the truth will promote division. So what is your solution to truth that may be divisive? Answer: dont tell the truth...or at least polish it up to present America as great, all the time.

I am comfortable that the unvarnished truth of America would not lead someone to believe that it is terrible. Have we always been perfect? No, of course not, nor has any other nation on the face of the earth. Were the humans that created the history of America perfect? No, but I don't think we should paint them or historical events in a biased way that leads to one conclusion or the other. I do, however object to curriculums that "promote the overthrow of the United States government or promote resentment toward a race or class of people." How can one argue with that? We can debate that the curriculum that has been thrown out does or doesn't promote those things, but those main principles are pretty hard to disagree with.

 

[ClosedCaption]

These are public schools; they exist to teach kids to read and write so they can become productive citizens, and are supported by tax dollars from many different races and ideologies. I don't advocate lying to them, but I see no reason that we should teach division. We are all Americans, not Mexican Americans, European Americans, African Americans, or Asian Americans (sorry if I left any out; I know there are at least 100 more). The more we advocate for dividing people into groups and sub-groups, the more difficult it is to live together as one nation. Everyone then is a protected class, a downtrodden class, a discriminated against class. Teach them the basics that they need to know to discover their own ideologies. We need to teach them how to think, not what to think.

Part of school is learning about our history. If that history leads some to believe America is terrible, is it the schools responsibility to reverse that by lying?

History is full of good and bad stories...It seems you believe telling the truth will promote division. So what is your solution to truth that may be divisive? Answer: dont tell the truth...or at least polish it up to present America as great, all the time.

I am comfortable that the unvarnished truth of America would not lead someone to believe that it is terrible. Have we always been perfect? No, of course not, nor has any other nation on the face of the earth. Were the humans that created the history of America perfect? No, but I don't think we should paint them or historical events in a biased way that leads to one conclusion or the other. I do, however object to curriculums that "promote the overthrow of the United States government or promote resentment toward a race or class of people." How can one argue with that? We can debate that the curriculum that has been thrown out does or doesn't promote those things, but those main principles are pretty hard to disagree with.

You just argued against teaching history in any way, shape or form. History is written by the winners. There is no way to talk about an event in history without leading someone to a conclusion of that event. Thats why screaming "bias" doesnt work, if you are looking for a history book without bias, you're lookiing for a history book that doesnt exist.

Resentment toward a race: I dont believe ONE person was PROMOTING resentment. If someone has those details I will certainly look at it but teaching about the "Plan of San Diego" and what it was is not promoting killing white people no more than teaching about Columbus is about promoting hating whites.

What you are advocating for is a polished view of history to promote jingoism. Indoctrination.

 

[gallantwarrior]

HB 2281 prohibits all Arizona school districts and charter schools from including classes that either promote the overthrow of the United States government or promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

This is subversive! We have to stop this as soon as possible! We certainly want seventh graders learning how to overthrow the US government and resenting other races.

Come on, really? Shouldn't the public schools teach reading, writing and arithmetic and not teaching controversial social diatribes? What other purpose could there be other than to advance an agenda? There's plenty of time for these kids to learn to love or hate America and anyone who isn't exactly like them; it doesn't seem that the taxpayers should have to fund it. I see no reason that a plain vanilla curriculum is objectionable.

Tell that to the liberals who have been busy infiltrating their social agenda into school curricula for a long time.

 

[BillyV]

Part of school is learning about our history. If that history leads some to believe America is terrible, is it the schools responsibility to reverse that by lying?

History is full of good and bad stories...It seems you believe telling the truth will promote division. So what is your solution to truth that may be divisive? Answer: dont tell the truth...or at least polish it up to present America as great, all the time.

I am comfortable that the unvarnished truth of America would not lead someone to believe that it is terrible. Have we always been perfect? No, of course not, nor has any other nation on the face of the earth. Were the humans that created the history of America perfect? No, but I don't think we should paint them or historical events in a biased way that leads to one conclusion or the other. I do, however object to curriculums that "promote the overthrow of the United States government or promote resentment toward a race or class of people." How can one argue with that? We can debate that the curriculum that has been thrown out does or doesn't promote those things, but those main principles are pretty hard to disagree with.

You just argued against teaching history in any way, shape or form. History is written by the winners. There is no way to talk about an event in history without leading someone to a conclusion of that event. Thats why screaming "bias" doesnt work, if you are looking for a history book without bias, you're lookiing for a history book that doesnt exist.

Resentment toward a race: I dont believe ONE person was PROMOTING resentment. If someone has those details I will certainly look at it but teaching about the "Plan of San Diego" and what it was is not promoting killing white people no more than teaching about Columbus is about promoting hating whites.

What you are advocating for is a polished view of history to promote jingoism. Indoctrination.

So there is no factual history whatsoever, is that your argument? We can't teach any particular historical event without bias? Absurd. You can't talk about the Civil War without advocating for North or South? You can't describe the historical relevance of Edison or Ford or Whitney in an unbiased manner?

I didn't say anyone was promoting resentment; that's just the language in the law, and all I said was that was hard to argue with. However, others have inferred that there were specific curricula of racial hatred; if that is the case, I would disagree with it. That's indoctrination that we can do without.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Facts lead people to conclusions is what I'm saying. If you are looking for history that does not then you either want no history taught or for people to stop coming to conclusions based on those facts. Which is impossible. And again, Ive seen nothing showing "Promotion" of killing white by teaching what the plan of San Diego was.

 

[BillyV]

Facts lead people to conclusions is what I'm saying. If you are looking for history that does not then you either want no history taught or for people to stop coming to conclusions based on those facts. Which is impossible. And again, Ive seen nothing showing "Promotion" of killing white by teaching what the plan of San Diego was.

There's a big difference between reaching a conclusion and being led there.

 

[Lakhota]

The Hispanic Experience - Stolen Birthright

 

[peach174]

Link?

read post 28

I don't mean some hyped up bullshit on youtube. A valid, factual link.

No way were teachers teaching anyone to kill anyone, take over anything, and the "quote" you posted is more than likely bullshit as well.

That is right from the senate committee hearing in Phx.
I know what the inside looks like.
I have been in that place to help with legislation on child abuse, I know what the place looks like.
I agree there is lots of bullshit on the you tube.
But not this one she is actually speaking to the committee about what a teacher wrote to her.
Not all things on you tube is bullshit.

 

[Lakhota]

The Hispanic Experience - Stolen Birthright

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WillowTree just negged me for my above post. What's wrong with it?

 

[peach174]

Here is the web site

Notice it's the same room

01/18/2012 - Senate Committee of the Whole #1

 

[WillowTree]

The Hispanic Experience - Stolen Birthright

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WillowTree just negged me for my above post. What's wrong with it?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaa,balaaaaaance????

 

[ClosedCaption]

Facts lead people to conclusions is what I'm saying. If you are looking for history that does not then you either want no history taught or for people to stop coming to conclusions based on those facts. Which is impossible. And again, Ive seen nothing showing "Promotion" of killing white by teaching what the plan of San Diego was.

There's a big difference between reaching a conclusion and being led there.

The only difference I can see is that you believe people are being led. Again, I've seen nothing that "promotes" division. Just because you say it a bunch doesnt make it true. Neither does talking about what the Plan of San Diego was about "promotes" killing whites.

Why are you ignoring this point?

 

[Ravi]

read post 28

I don't mean some hyped up bullshit on youtube. A valid, factual link.

No way were teachers teaching anyone to kill anyone, take over anything, and the "quote" you posted is more than likely bullshit as well.

That is right from the senate committee hearing in Phx.
I know what the inside looks like.
I have been in that place to help with legislation on child abuse, I know what the place looks like.
I agree there is lots of bullshit on the you tube.
But not this one she is actually speaking to the committee about what a teacher wrote to her.
Not all things on you tube is bullshit.

Nothing in that video even mentions the bullshit you posted.

I hope you are at least smart enough to know that.

Now, how about the link I asked for?

 

[BillyV]

Facts lead people to conclusions is what I'm saying. If you are looking for history that does not then you either want no history taught or for people to stop coming to conclusions based on those facts. Which is impossible. And again, Ive seen nothing showing "Promotion" of killing white by teaching what the plan of San Diego was.

There's a big difference between reaching a conclusion and being led there.

The only difference I can see is that you believe people are being led. Again, I've seen nothing that "promotes" division. Just because you say it a bunch doesnt make it true. Neither does talking about what the Plan of San Diego was about "promotes" killing whites.

Why are you ignoring this point?

I never mentioned the Plan of San Diego.

From Lakhota's link under the "Stolen Birthright" of Mexico:

To be sure, there are other ghosts of history still lingering the U.S. There are the shades of the Native American nations -- people exterminated or driven to the edge of extinction for their land and exiled to the wastelands of America. And there are the African American people, mostly descendents of the survivors of slavery, some assimilated, even prospering, and many, their cheap labor no longer needed by U.S. capitalism because of its global runaway shops, ghettoized in the cities or incarcerated in the vast prison system of America. These people, too, hunger for justice. But it is the Mexican people who present a unique challenge to American capitalism, a system of exploitation that has historically targeted national minorities in its unrelenting quest for profit.

Gee, do you think the author had a point of view?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sure he did: the continuing of struggle between capital and labor. That is why the government regulates capitalism to ensure competition (lower prices), product safety, and work place safety. A healthy balance between labor and capital is necessary for a successful America. A prosperous middle class consuming the products and service of business is as necessary as wealth creation to promote job creation.

 

[ClosedCaption]

There's a big difference between reaching a conclusion and being led there.

The only difference I can see is that you believe people are being led. Again, I've seen nothing that "promotes" division. Just because you say it a bunch doesnt make it true. Neither does talking about what the Plan of San Diego was about "promotes" killing whites.

Why are you ignoring this point?

I never mentioned the Plan of San Diego.

From Lakhota's link under the "Stolen Birthright" of Mexico:

To be sure, there are other ghosts of history still lingering the U.S. There are the shades of the Native American nations -- people exterminated or driven to the edge of extinction for their land and exiled to the wastelands of America. And there are the African American people, mostly descendents of the survivors of slavery, some assimilated, even prospering, and many, their cheap labor no longer needed by U.S. capitalism because of its global runaway shops, ghettoized in the cities or incarcerated in the vast prison system of America. These people, too, hunger for justice. But it is the Mexican people who present a unique challenge to American capitalism, a system of exploitation that has historically targeted national minorities in its unrelenting quest for profit.

Gee, do you think the author had a point of view?

Every author has a point of view...Every story has a point of view. Again you are looking for a Unicorn, something that doesnt or wont ever exist so that you can keep crying foul.

 

[BillyV]

The only difference I can see is that you believe people are being led. Again, I've seen nothing that "promotes" division. Just because you say it a bunch doesnt make it true. Neither does talking about what the Plan of San Diego was about "promotes" killing whites.

Why are you ignoring this point?

I never mentioned the Plan of San Diego.

From Lakhota's link under the "Stolen Birthright" of Mexico:

To be sure, there are other ghosts of history still lingering the U.S. There are the shades of the Native American nations -- people exterminated or driven to the edge of extinction for their land and exiled to the wastelands of America. And there are the African American people, mostly descendents of the survivors of slavery, some assimilated, even prospering, and many, their cheap labor no longer needed by U.S. capitalism because of its global runaway shops, ghettoized in the cities or incarcerated in the vast prison system of America. These people, too, hunger for justice. But it is the Mexican people who present a unique challenge to American capitalism, a system of exploitation that has historically targeted national minorities in its unrelenting quest for profit.

Gee, do you think the author had a point of view?

Every author has a point of view...Every story has a point of view. Again you are looking for a Unicorn, something that doesnt or wont ever exist so that you can keep crying foul.

If you can't see this as excessively biased, I don't know what else I can say. I'm out.

 

[peach174]

Right from the school superintendent
http://media.jsonline.com/documents/01+06+Huppenthal+press+release.pdf
Notice the reasons
to promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I never mentioned the Plan of San Diego.

From Lakhota's link under the "Stolen Birthright" of Mexico:



Gee, do you think the author had a point of view?

Every author has a point of view...Every story has a point of view. Again you are looking for a Unicorn, something that doesnt or wont ever exist so that you can keep crying foul.

If you can't see this as excessively biased, I don't know what else I can say. I'm out.

Can you name one book that has ever been written that doesnt have a point of view? One book?

 

[Ravi]

Right from the school superintendent
http://media.jsonline.com/documents/01+06+Huppenthal+press+release.pdf
Notice the reasons
to promote resentment toward a race or class of people.

So you have NOTHING to back up the post I asked you to link.

You should be ashamed of yourself.