Turkish warplane crashed in Syrian territorial waters

[Artevelde]

Ekrem could verify, but I believe that the internal state police takes the lead on PKK within Turkey. That may have changed since the 1990s, though.

What the member Artevelde said is not worth responding to.
In his logic the US-Soldiers can't defeat the Taliban for over a decade because the US-Soldiers are illiterate.
"Just another" bullshittalker.

Contrary to Turkey the US doesn't have an 18% illiteracy rate and its soldiers aren't conscripts.

 

[ekrem]

Contrary to Turkey the US doesn't have an 18% illiteracy rate and its soldiers aren't conscripts.

Conscription age is 19.
There is 99% literacy rate among males at this age.
You have no fucking clue about Turkish Army, how it operates and what role the conscripts play in it.

This post was in no way an invitation for you to answer.
It's best you shut your incompetent mouth and fuck off.


worldbank.org | World Databank

 

[kirkuki]

i heard turkish fm say 'oh no one gets away with this' , how about mind your own business and stop crossing other countries borders , it is not like South kurdistan that you will get away with trespassing , i just wish my government had more balls and army to do the same with south kurdistani air-space trespassing by turkish jets .

i am against assad regime badly but this time the had a good right to do what is right .

 

[Synthaholic]

Ekrem could verify, but I believe that the internal state police takes the lead on PKK within Turkey. That may have changed since the 1990s, though.

What the member Artevelde said is not worth responding to.
In his logic the US-Soldiers can't defeat the Taliban for over a decade because the US-Soldiers are illiterate.
"Just another" bullshittalker.

Contrary to Turkey the US doesn't have an 18% illiteracy rate and its soldiers aren't conscripts.

It probably does in the Red states.

What's the illiteracy rate in Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana?

 

[Roudy]

Not even close. Educate yourself.

Not even close huh?

Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Great Ottoman Empire[dn 3] or Turkish Empire or Sublime Ottoman State or sometimes also referred to as Turkey [7] (Ottoman Turkish: دَوْلَتِ عَلِيّهٔ عُثمَانِیّه Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye[8] (also عثمانلى دولتى Osmanlı Devleti),[dn 4] Modern Turkish: Osmanlı Devleti or Osmanlı İmparatorluğu) was a Turkish empire which lasted from 27 July 1299[9] to 1 November 1922 (623 years), when the Sultanate was abolished.[10]

Ottoman Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ottoman Turks (or Osmanlı Turks) were the Turkish-speaking population of the Ottoman Empire who formed the base of the state's military and ruling classes. Reliable information about the early history of Ottoman Turks is scarce, but they take their Turkish name, Osmanlı (corrupted in European languages as "Ottoman"), from the house of Osman I (reigned ca. 1299-1326), the founder of the dynasty which ruled the Ottoman empire during its 620-year history. After the expansion from its home in Bithynia, the Ottoman principality began incorporating both other Turkish-speaking Muslims and non-Turkish Christians, becoming the Ottoman Turks and ultimately the Turks of the present. The Ottoman Turks blocked all land routes to Europe by conquering the city of Constantinople, the capital city of the Byzantine Empire. Hence the Europeans had to find other ways to trade with Eastern countries.

You don't want to debate me about Turkey, son. I've been studying that country since my first visit in 1990. Cutting and pasting Wiki articles isn't going to get you too far.

Ottomans were Turks. I don't need wiki, any history or otherwise will confirm this. I don't know where you were educated but if you paid for it, you should ask for your money back.

 

[Synthaholic]

Not even close huh?

Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Great Ottoman Empire[dn 3] or Turkish Empire or Sublime Ottoman State or sometimes also referred to as Turkey [7] (Ottoman Turkish: دَوْلَتِ عَلِيّهٔ عُثمَانِیّه Devlet-i ʿAliyye-yi ʿOsmâniyye[8] (also عثمانلى دولتى Osmanlı Devleti),[dn 4] Modern Turkish: Osmanlı Devleti or Osmanlı İmparatorluğu) was a Turkish empire which lasted from 27 July 1299[9] to 1 November 1922 (623 years), when the Sultanate was abolished.[10]

Ottoman Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ottoman Turks (or Osmanlı Turks) were the Turkish-speaking population of the Ottoman Empire who formed the base of the state's military and ruling classes. Reliable information about the early history of Ottoman Turks is scarce, but they take their Turkish name, Osmanlı (corrupted in European languages as "Ottoman"), from the house of Osman I (reigned ca. 1299-1326), the founder of the dynasty which ruled the Ottoman empire during its 620-year history. After the expansion from its home in Bithynia, the Ottoman principality began incorporating both other Turkish-speaking Muslims and non-Turkish Christians, becoming the Ottoman Turks and ultimately the Turks of the present. The Ottoman Turks blocked all land routes to Europe by conquering the city of Constantinople, the capital city of the Byzantine Empire. Hence the Europeans had to find other ways to trade with Eastern countries.

You don't want to debate me about Turkey, son. I've been studying that country since my first visit in 1990. Cutting and pasting Wiki articles isn't going to get you too far.

Ottomans were Turks.

No, dumbass - Turks were Ottomans.

I rest my case.

I don't need wiki, any history or otherwise will confirm this. I don't know where you were educated but if you paid for it, you should ask for your money back.

I love irony.

 

[Roudy]

You don't want to debate me about Turkey, son. I've been studying that country since my first visit in 1990. Cutting and pasting Wiki articles isn't going to get you too far.

Ottomans were Turks.

No, dumbass - Turks were Ottomans.

I rest my case.

I don't need wiki, any history or otherwise will confirm this. I don't know where you were educated but if you paid for it, you should ask for your money back.

I love irony.

No you didn't put to rest anything other than your ignorance, I hate to say. The Ottoman Empire was ruled and run by Turks. Just like the Roman Empire was ruled by Romans. There may have been other races under their rule that were conquered by them.

 

[Roudy]

You don't want to debate me about Turkey, son. I've been studying that country since my first visit in 1990. Cutting and pasting Wiki articles isn't going to get you too far.

Ottomans were Turks.

No, dumbass - Turks were Ottomans.

I rest my case.

I don't need wiki, any history or otherwise will confirm this. I don't know where you were educated but if you paid for it, you should ask for your money back.

I love irony.

Ottoman Empire

Ottoman Empire

Ottoman Empire- The Ottoman Empire was the last of a series of Turkish Muslim empires. It spread from Asia minor beginning about 1300, eventually encompassing most of the Middle East, most of North Africa, and parts of Europe, including modern Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Rumania and Yugoslavia. In the Middle East, the Ottomans ruled Syria, Palestine, Egypt, parts of Arabia and Iraq. Only Persia (Iran) and the Eastern part of the Arabian peninsula remained free of Ottoman rule. The empire reached around the Black sea and into the Caucasus in Central Asia, including Aremenia. The Ottoman armies reached as far as the gates of Vienna, where they were repulsed for a second time in 1683, the height of their expansion on land. The map below shows the extent of the Ottoman Empire in 1683.

The Ottoman Empire was founded about 1307 by Osman I, whose father Ertuğrul was a Ghazi mercenary who migrated from central Asia to Western Asia minor, as part of the migration of Turkic peoples under pressure of Mongol expansion in central Asia. In return for services, the Seljuk Turks gave Ertuğrul, a territory in Eskisehir. Osman expanded his Ghazi territory. and conquered a significant portion of Asia minor, dying before he captured Bursa. Bursa was captured by his son, Orkhan, who made it his capital. Subsequent rulers continued the expansion. The ruler of the Ottoman Empire after its rise assumed the title of Sultan. The Sultan also assumed the role of the Muslim Caliph. The Ottoman Turks were fierce fighters, supplementing their Muslim troops with an elite corps of converted Christian slaves, the Yeni Chery (new troops) or in English, Janissaries.

 

[Roudy]

They committed genocide on the Armenians and the Kurds and stole their land. This kind of stuff is nothing new to the Turks. The Ottomans were among the most ruthless barbaric invaders in history.

The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians

http://www.jewishracism.com/Jewish_Genocide_Enlarged.pdf

The Following Videos start out the first minute with an announcement in Armenian, then changes to English

Rev. Bedros Hajian's first interview with Christopher Jon Bjerknes June 5, 2007

The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians

Rev. Bedros Hajian's second interview with Christopher Jon Bjerknes June 18, 2007

The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians - Part 2

Rev. Bedros Hajian's third interview with Christopher Jon Bjerknes August 7, 2007

The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians - Part 3

Let's not let the FACTS get in the way, shall we?

Ottoman Empire and the Armenian Genocide

The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Armenians in Turkey: 1915-18

Genocide in the 20th Century

The first genocide of the 20th Century occurred when two million Armenians living in Turkey were eliminated from their historic homeland through forced deportations and massacres.

For three thousand years, a thriving Armenian community had existed inside the vast region of the Middle East bordered by the Black, Mediterranean and Caspian Seas. The area, known as Asia Minor, stands at the crossroads of three continents; Europe, Asia and Africa. Great powers rose and fell over the many centuries and the Armenian homeland was at various times ruled by Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs and Mongols. Despite the repeated invasions and occupations, Armenian pride and cultural identity never wavered. The snow-capped peak of Mount Ararat became its focal point and by 600 BC Armenia as a nation sprang into being. Following the advent of Christianity, Armenia became the very first nation to accept it as the state religion. A golden era of peace and prosperity followed which saw the invention of a distinct alphabet, a flourishing of literature, art, commerce, and a unique style of architecture. By the 10th century, Armenians had established a new capital at Ani, affectionately called the 'city of a thousand and one churches.'

In the eleventh century, the first Turkish invasion of the Armenian homeland occurred. Thus began several hundred years of rule by Muslim Turks. By the sixteenth century, Armenia had been absorbed into the vast and mighty Ottoman Empire. At its peak, this Turkish empire included much of Southeast Europe, North Africa, and almost all of the Middle East.

 

[Synthaholic]

Ottomans were Turks.

No, dumbass - Turks were Ottomans.

I rest my case.

I don't need wiki, any history or otherwise will confirm this. I don't know where you were educated but if you paid for it, you should ask for your money back.

I love irony.

No you didn't put to rest anything other than your ignorance, I hate to say. The Ottoman Empire was ruled and run by Turks. Just like the Roman Empire was ruled by Romans. There may have been other races under their rule that were conquered by them.

It was the Ottoman Empire before it was Turkey.

The country of Turkey bears no responsibility to the Armenian issue - they were not in existence when that event happened. It would be like asking the United States to apologize and accept responsibility for the Salem Witch Trials.

 

[waltky]

Betcha didn't think this is how the war could start did cha, huh, did cha...

Can Turkey force U.S. and other NATO countries to attack Syria?
June 25th, 2012 - Turkey's leadership took on a much more strident tone on Sunday, calling the downing of its military jet by Syria an "act of aggression" and invoking its right to consult with other NATO nations. That call to meet has raised the question of whether other nations, including the United States, would be compelled to strike back on Turkey's behalf.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has spoken with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the foreign ministers of the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia and Iran, and European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton since the incident, spokesman Selcuk Unal told CNN Saturday. British Foreign Minister William Hague Sunday called the incident "outrageous" and said he condemned it wholeheartedly." "The Assad regime should not make the mistake of believing that it can act with impunity. It will be held to account for its behavior," Hague said of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The top American military official, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey, called his Turkish counterpart this weekend, a U.S. official told CNN's Barbara Starr.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spoke with her Turkish counterpart, as well. In a statement issued Sunday she called the incident a "brazen and unacceptable act in the strongest possible terms." NATO members will be meeting this Tuesday in Belgium to discuss the incident, at the request of Turkish officials, according to NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu. The meeting, or "consultations," is one Turkey called under Article 4 of the NATO treaty, Lungescu said in an e-mail to CNN. Turkey is expected to make a presentation about the plane incident. "Under Article 4, any ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened," she wrote.

With the consultations, there is a chance Turkey will demand a collective military response. The notion comes from what is known as Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's Washington Treaty, which states that should a member nation - which Turkey is - be attacked, other NATO members are compelled in a collective act of self-defense "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." Article 5 has been invoked just once since NATO's founding, the military response to 9/11. In this incident, after restrained comments early on, Turkey has issued much angrier comments as details became known. On Sunday, Turkey's foreign minister said the country will act "decisively" within international law and refuted Syria's contention that the plane was shot down because it displayed an "act of aggression."

The plane in the Friday incident was unarmed and sending no hostile signals, said Davutoglu. The plane was testing Turkey's radar systems, Davutoglu said. "You have to first send a caution, a warning," he said in the first detailed Turkish statement on the international incident. "If the warning doesn't work, you scramble your planes, you send a stronger signal, you force the plane to land. There wasn't enough time to do any of that in the time that our plane was in Syrian airspace." Davutoglu added the plane was shot down in international air space. Turkey has invoked Article 4 before, after tensions arose on its border with Iraq. "This did not lead to the invocation of Article 5," Longescu noted. A senior American administration official speaking on background because of the sensitivity of the issue, told CNN's Jill Dougherty on Sunday that Turkey's request "is just consultations, and they aren't asking for more than that." The official added that the move does mean Turkey considers Syria's shooting down their plane a threat to Turkey's security.

MORE

See also:

Syria Shot at Another Turkish Jet During Search Operation - Turkey
June 25, 2012 - The hostility between Syria and Turkey over the shooting down of a fighter jet is growing by the day.

In the latest letter addressed to the UN Security Council, a Turkish representative has said the Syrian military shot at a second Turkish jet during search and rescue even after establishing a joint operation to search for the plane's wreckage. The letter said the Syrian military opened "harassment fire" at the Turkish jet which was involved in the search operation. This came hours after the first attack on the Turkish F-4 jet on Friday. The Syrian military reportedly stopped firing after a warning from Turkish forces. "Search and rescue operation has immediately been initiated and still continues. Yet, on 22 June 2012, harassment fire was opened at our CASA type aircraft by an anti-aircraft artillery positioned on the Syrian shore in spite of the established coordination with the Syrian authorities for the Search and Rescue Operation," the letter to the council said.

The letter added that the attack in international airspace was a hostile act by the Syrian authorities against Turkey which must be strongly condemned. The search operation for the missing pilots is continuing, but the letter itself acknowledges that the pilots could have been killed in the attack. If the pilots are confirmed dead, it is expected to worsen the already volatile situation. The shooting down of the jet poses a serious threat to peace and security in the region, said Turkey's letter.

The letter has come at a time when Nato is planning to hold emergency talks on Tuesday. Turkey invoked Article-4 of Nato over the incident. Although military intervention is unlikely, reports suggest the Turkish officials also confirmed that they are not seeking military intervention. Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc has come down heavily on the shooting incident. According to a BBC report, Arinc said the shooting down of the jet was "a hostile act of the highest order." Arinc said the action will "not go unpunished," but made it clear that Turkey had no intention of going to a war over the shooting down.

http://ca.ibtimes.com/articles/356278/20120625/syria-jet-turkey-flight-nato-un.htm

 

[waltky]

Russia says its much ado `bout nothin'...

Russia Shoots Down Turkey-Syria War Rhetoric
June 26, 2012 : Russia said Tuesday that Syria's shooting down of a Turkish F4 Phantom jet is not a provocation of war.

Turkey viewed incident as "a clear and imminent threat," and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that because of the "heinous act" the "rules of engagement of the Turkish Armed Forces have changed," but Moscow is urging him to keep a cool head.

"We believe it is important that the incident is not viewed as a provocation or an intentional action, and that it does not lead to destabilizing the situation," Russia's Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Tuesday. "The escalation of political propaganda -- including on the international level -- is especially dangerous when there are efforts under way to mobilize all influential outside players" in a peace process.

Turkey, furious over Syria shooting at a second plane on Monday, warned that it would consider a "proportionate" response, "within the framework of international law." Ankara is expected to push NATO to invoke Article 5 of its founding charter for the second time ever during an emergency meeting on Tuesday, which would pave the way for a coalition response.

Russia Shoots Down Turkey-Syria War Rhetoric - International Business Times

 

[paulitician]

Turkey should just mind its own business. Why are they spoiling for War with Syria? This looks likes a NATO scam to me. The West is desperately trying to justify War with Syria. They're just provoking now. Syria is for Syrians. Let them sort out their own problems.

 

[Synthaholic]

The Turks should invade Syria and overthrow Assad. The Turks haven't had a good war in a while, and it would boost their economy.

 

[paulitician]

The Turks should invade Syria and overthrow Assad. The Turks haven't had a good war in a while, and it would boost their economy.

Not quite a valid reason for War.

 

[Samson]

The Turks should invade Syria and overthrow Assad. The Turks haven't had a good war in a while, and it would boost their economy.

Not quite a valid reason for War.

What's the "valid reason?"



Better Question: Why would anyone need to Validate War?

 

[Synthaholic]

They could claim national security, and that Assad is developing WMDs, then invade before anyone can prove otherwise. Then change the narrative to a humanitarian reason, since Assad tortured his people - they could even invent a series of "rape rooms".

The Turkish media will be too cowed to expose any of it, so it should be a cinch!

 

[Samson]

They could claim national security, and that Assad is developing WMDs, then invade before anyone can prove otherwise. Then change the narrative to a humanitarian reason, since Assad tortured his people - they could even invent a series of "rape rooms".

The Turkish media will be too cowed to expose any of it, so it should be a cinch!

Or.....OOOOOOORRRRRrrrrrrrrrr................









They could simply crash a few planes into Constantanople, and blame the Syrians....

 

[rhodescholar]

Syria is for Syrians. Let them sort out their own problems.

Why don't you tell that to iran, russia and hezbollah, all of whom are either helping murder syrian civilians or supplying the weapons to do so?

 

[Synthaholic]

They could claim national security, and that Assad is developing WMDs, then invade before anyone can prove otherwise. Then change the narrative to a humanitarian reason, since Assad tortured his people - they could even invent a series of "rape rooms".

The Turkish media will be too cowed to expose any of it, so it should be a cinch!

Or.....OOOOOOORRRRRrrrrrrrrrr................









They could simply crash a few planes into Constantanople, and blame the Syrians....

What kind of mind could come up with such a dastardly scenario!!!!!

It could work!

Just not into the Blue Mosque - 1) it's gorgeous, and 2) it could set off unforeseen events. No need to rile up the spectators in other countries.