Turkey: The Senate Was Wrong, But Turkey May No Longer Be Our Friends

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Annie, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Watching Carnavar change over time, I must say I'm unsurprised at what is being found here:

    http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MmE5NTRjYWViOTMxMDI4Mjg4MjM2ZGY3ZTZhYmUzMmE=

     
  2. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Maybe for Province Americans it is right to blackmail everything with Islamofascism.
    People who intened to consume more depth analysis, may look here from The Brookings Institute:

    The Anatomy of Anti-Americanism in Turkey
    http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/articles/2005/1116turkey_taspinar/taspinar20051116.pdf

    What is for USA Al-Qaeda is for Turkey PKK.
    Whilst Turkey is combatting Al-Qaeda, USA is not in case of PKK.
    Although PKK is harboured in Iraq and attacks from there our people, USA as occupation force gives PKK activities an umbrella and just talks of how unfortunate they are Turkish people dying.
    We are the only country suffering from Terrorism out of Iraq. Everyone else is exporting terrorism into Iraq.

    You have no clue, Kathianne, what you are talking about.
    With that Article which simply puts it that way, that Anti-Americanism comes from Islamofascism you try to label me in this category.
    The truth is the opposite:
    So you either can play Psychologist with Nationalreview Link trying to analyze me changeing, or you just keep to facts that ressintenemts in Turkey is not limited to any ideology. How about you connect these things to exponentially rising Attacks against our citizens from US occupied Iraq.
    Security threats unite whole Turks. And Security Threat comes direct from US-occupied IRAQ.

    User ONEDOMINO always comes with Pew datas. But in same datas it is said, that 2/3 of Turkish public regard USA as direct threat to national security.
    There are no such things as alliances.

    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39186


    Everywhere in Turkey are these days protests about latest PKK-Attacks. In every city.
    Istanbul Protests: "Curse the PKK, Curse America"
    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/...nbul_protests_curse_the_pkk.html?hpid=topnews


    I give a shit about all yours and onedominos simplified Islamofascism anaylses.
    TURKEY is alone in its fight against Terrorism. No one helps, even worse, everyone tries to block Turkey in fight its terrorist.
    This will ultimately stop for once and all. Politicians were since 2003 not able to get clear answer from our so-called allies.
    Now everything is in the initiative of Turkish Army.
    We have many options and we want clear position from USA: With us or against us. This is no more an issue to talk about or negotiate about. Everyone has to take its sides. This is very serious issue, loosing 40 people in a month to Iraqi-originated Terrorism is nothing a State like Turkey can live with.
    http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/bstephens/?id=110010769

    We are sick of loosing our peoples, and we will make halt to all this in that georgraphy where it comes from, also giving a big lecture to those tribe leaders in North-Iraq harbouring those terrorists and rearming them. We will eliminate those Barzani. Our state knows very well what is going on.
    Everyone has to choose its sides.
    This is short-term action. What this all means in geostrategy, and for future i also feel capable of talking about, if there are such questions or interest to talk about.

    But the main question is, why USA not acting against PKK?
    Even not one Air Force bullet has fallen on them down. Allthough they are recognized also on your State Departments Terror List.
    It comes also more worse. That part of Turkish-US friendship which is left, USA and now also Turkish Army is prepared to throw over about the question if Terrorists are eliminiated which both countries recognize as Terrorists.
    Public may not know these answers. Turkish Institutions from National Security Council to Armed Forces know.
    And they gave decision not to risk our people's life anymore to this shadowy war against Turkey, where PKK is used as a proxy.
    No matter what cost.
     
  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Canavar, no one has said Turkey should allow PKK free access to incursions and attacks. That was not the point, in anything Hanson wrote or I commented on. However, the points made by both, you have exemplified here.
     
  4. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    The quotation relies on this article
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/23/world/middleeast/23kurds.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin


    US Supports Terrorists That are Also Not Terrorists

    Today the war in Iraq helps demonstrate the absurdity of the war on terror. The evidence is found in an October 23rd New York Times article entitled, "In Iraq, Conflict Simmers on a 2nd Kurdish Front." The piece discusses Kurdish insurgents from the Party for Free Life in Kurdistan, or PJAK, who are proudly waging a guerrilla war against Iran. The PJAK is an offshoot of the Kurdistan Worker's Party, or PKK, who instead of on Iran, proudly wage a guerrilla war against Turkey.
    Now, the absurdity of the situation lies in the fact that while the US classifies the PKK a terrorist organization, it doesn't classify the PJAK as terrorists, because of the fact that it wages war on Iran. In fact, as the article notes, PJAK commanders boast of having significant contacts and consultation with American military officials. Astonishingly, the leader of the PJAK, which it should be emphasized again, is an off-shoot of a terrorist group, was actually allowed to visit Washington last summer.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-eteraz/us-supports-terrorists-th_b_69536.html


    That's it. USA thought to redraw the Mid-East without Turkey. It chose the Kurds.
    Turkey will now take that card out of the hand of USA by invadeing that 70.000 km² of North-Iraq. Size of materials on Turkish boarder do not indicate an operation, but an classical invasion.
    Targets are clear: PKK+Barzani.

    Everything against our will is temporarily. We as strongest country around decide what happens permanent on our boarder. Not anyone else. We will not let establish anyone an entity which is against our national security and those leaders like Barzani, in the shadow of USA, think of theirselves in a position to take up on Turkey harbouring terrorists and supplying them from electricity to weapons.

    Then the USA has neither anymore the "Kurdish card" to play against Iran, nor an allied Turkey. If there is a confrontation of any sort between both our countries, it shall be. It is a question of National Security to us, and we have hold still for too long now. Since 2003.
    In case of a confrontation, Neocons can put their attention to Turkey and Iran in the shadow can progress with its plans you claim they have.
    Confronting Turkey needs all your ressources. Believe me or not. I will not again begin with quotes/datas/links describing Turkish dominance in this region.
    It was naive from the beginning from Neocons to do anything against Turkish will.

    This is the source of Anti-Americanism in Turkey. A foolish USA which instrumentalizes PKK with its sister organization PJAK over Turkish Life.
    Maybe USA's motive is not primarily to damage Turkey, but you can not control an Terrorist organization telling them "Don't attack Turkey, but attack Iran".
    It will do what it chooses to do.
    This is all a dirty game and we know everything about. PKK is top agenda in Turkey again since 2003 in media, and people's daily life. You Americans and those province Americans within you even more did not even know how to write PKK once i came to this board. I remember GunnyL writing about "PPK".

    That's it. It is all related to Iran. USA needs Kurdish nationalism, Kurdish cannon fodder and Kurdish Terrorist groups for every possibility to confront Iran.
    That is also the case, why all this stuff have brought Turkish-USA relations to that point where it now stands. This is dirty calculation from your policy makers.

    But what in the end have you gained when Turkish Army will take that "Kurdish Card" out of your hands?
    Then all calculation was absurd and you also irreperably damaged the mightiest country in this region. The only option to contain Iran once US Army leaves Mid-East. Factors like Israel-Turkey relations i do not even mention.

    Our relations with Iran were before 2003 very sour. Now Iran is partner in terrorism fight. Iran has more threats like USA, Israel etc.. But also Kurdish Terorists and Kurdish cannon fodder. PKK is PJAK. So both countries cooperate.

    And USA? USA does not cooperate, it intentionally makes umbrella over PKK/PJAK , seeing Turkish deaths from PKK as collateral damage in big picture.
    No one can expect that everyone has to follow USA security interpretation, and USA can also not expect from Turkey to have good relations with USA, it must play cannon fodder. Who the fuck you think we are ?

    So this issue is very serious stuff. And Turkey will project its interests in the region. With you or against you. It is your choice.
    We will first begin with PKK and Barzani. This is security issue for us, and as collateral damage will sabotage your Kurdish card for every eventuality in Iran.
     
  5. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    Now PKK is makeing psychological war with Terrorist newspaper with 8 kidnapped conscripts:
    http://www.ozgurgundem.net/haber.asp?haberid=46098

    What did Israel do with Lebanon based on 1 kidnapped soldier?
     
  6. roomy
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    roomy The Natural

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    Typical of the ignorant uneducated turkeys
     
  7. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    UK, Turkey sign strategic partnership
    http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-20/0710235892181107.htm

    - We will extend bilateral trade
    - establish British-Turkish joint universities
    - cooperate in pipeline and energy politics
    - create Industrial zone in Basra (Iraq)
    - deepen intergration into EU
    - make cultural exchange programs.
    - deepen security and intelligence cooperation
    - coordinate counter-terrorism activities
    and many many more.

    Both our countries regard vice-verca as "strategic partners".
    And this phrase is worth its ink on the paper written. Unlike to other "allies".

    So roomy you either go on playing "schizophrenic" English-Man diametrically against your countries stance, or just stop spamming at me.
    I can not take you seriously.
     
  8. roomy
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    roomy The Natural

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    Turkey is a tool for the west, you are being used as a pinch bar against the rest of the Muslim world you ignorant, childish fool.
     
  9. hjmick
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    hjmick Gold Member

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    Whew! For a minute there canavar had me thinking our British cousins were abandoning us. I thought you blokes had found yourselves a new best friend and would be taking the side of the Turks in all matters international. ;)
     
  10. ekrem
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    ekrem VIP Member

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    http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page13591.asp
    Mr. Einstein, so UK as biggest EU-lobbyist before Italy, Spain and Scandinavian countries is supporting Turkey on EU accession because the west is useing Turkey against the rest of the "Muslim world". :cuckoo:

    Also UK is supporter of Turkish-Iran energy cooperation.
    Because UK will itself profit from this via energy cooperation with Turkey.
    UK backs an Iran / Turkey gas deal
    http://www.gas-guide.org.uk/blog-uk-backs-an-iran-turkey-gas-deal-63.html

    British energy companies and Turkish companies will invest in Joint-Venture into gas fields in Iraq.
    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article1512222.ece

    Next step is setting up joint-venture Industrial Zones in South-Iraq from UK and Turkish industry companies.
    Establishing joint universities and so on. Whole range from security, energy, economy, intelligence, culture.

    This is no usage in meaning of ownage.
    This is cooperation to multiply both countries interests in the region by working together.

    And now please stop with spam. I am expactant of what Americans have to say to my posts.
     

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