Turkey on the move

[CSM]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/30/turkey.border.ap/index.html

Wonder when they are going to go before the UN to get approval for action? Also, how are they going to form their coalition? And of course, most importantly, when are they going to tell everyone what their plan is and the timetable/milestones for everything?

 

[Vintij]

Well turkey has the right idea with wanting to put pressure on the Americans to eliminate Kurdish rebel safehouses. But Turkey has always been anti-kurd in general. So they know that alot of the PKK violence stems from iraq, but they want to kill all kurds to do this, which is not going to happen.

[Asked whether Iraqi authorities had been informed about a possible cross-border Turkish operation, Bilman said: "Such a decision is only Turkey's business. We do not have to inform anybody about the possibility of such an intervention."]

Also not going to happen. You cant eliminate 3,000 guerilla soldiers by not informing Iraq, or America that you plan on using force. That is just stupid, you need help and you also dont need people mistaking turkish soldiers for insurgents.

So basically, the U.S needs to use some decent intel, hit the rebels at the rebel base. Rather than walk around blindly without knowing who is attacking them, and being buddy buddy with the moderate kurds.

If there are only 3,000 kurdish rebels....that should be a large chunk of violence in Iraq, that should be easy to eliminate considering how many fucking troops we have over there.

 

[onedomino]

If there are only 3,000 kurdish rebels....that should be a large chunk of violence in Iraq, that should be easy to eliminate considering how many fucking troops we have over there.

What are you talking about? I have never heard of Kurds causing "a large chunk of violence in Iraq," or attacking Americans.

 

[Vintij]

What are you talking about? I have never heard of Kurds causing "a large chunk of violence in Iraq," or attacking Americans.

Read. First of all I said "IF" there are 3,000 kurds or "PKK" a rebel group of kurds based in Iraq and turkey...(according to the turkish government) Then it should be easy to slow down that violence. Your right moderate kurds are not attacking US. But then again, no moderate anything is attacking us. Its the extremist groups like PKK. And yes extremist groups ARE causing a large chunk of violence, if you eliminate the base of that group. Violence will slow down. It does not have to be PKK, it could be any extremists. Unless you still think we are fighting al-quaida and terrorist networks. Sorry we are not. We are fighting extreme guerilla warfare groups.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The US and Iraq Government have a responsibility to address any reasonable and truthful demands from Turkey. Allowing the Kurd terrorists ( I wonder why they are not called freedom fighters by the left) to operate with impunity is a direct contradiction of our stated policy and goals.

Having said that, if Turkey invades without first getting Iraq and US aquiesence they may not like what happens.

 

[onedomino]

The US and Iraq Government have a responsibility to address any reasonable and truthful demands from Turkey. Allowing the Kurd terrorists ( I wonder why they are not called freedom fighters by the left) to operate with impunity is a direct contradiction of our stated policy and goals.

Having said that, if Turkey invades without first getting Iraq and US aquiesence they may not like what happens.

I do not support PKK terrorism in any form. But we should not side with the Turks (who despise America) against the Kurds. The Kurds have been hosed repeatedly in history. By the Ottomans, Persians, Syrians, British cartographers, Sunni Iraqis, Americans in 1991, you name it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I do not support PKK terrorism in any form. But we should not side with the Turks (who despise America) against the Kurds. The Kurds have been hosed repeatedly in history. By the Ottomans, Persians, Syrians, British cartographers, Sunni Iraqis, Americans in 1991, you name it.

Your WRONG. Turkey is a member of NATO, is an ally and is a democracy of sorts. WE MUST side with TURKEY. Failure to do so makes any claim we make or any action we take against OUR terrorist enemies suspect.

The ends NEVER justify the means. We are at war with terrorism. We either fight it or we don't. Turkey is a sovereign NATION, it has the right, duty and responsibility to protect itself and its citizens. Supporting terrorism is NEVER the right answer.

We have other avenues to take in regards Turkey's conduct inside their borders for their people. Unless you are suggesting we go to war with Turkey we can NOT support, defend or protect Kurdish terrorists.

 

[onedomino]

Your WRONG. Turkey is a member of NATO, is an ally and is a democracy of sorts. WE MUST side with TURKEY. Failure to do so makes any claim we make or any action we take against OUR terrorist enemies suspect.

The ends NEVER justify the means. We are at war with terrorism. We either fight it or we don't. Turkey is a sovereign NATION, it has the right, duty and responsibility to protect itself and its citizens. Supporting terrorism is NEVER the right answer.

We have other avenues to take in regards Turkey's conduct inside their borders for their people. Unless you are suggesting we go to war with Turkey we can NOT support, defend or protect Kurdish terrorists.

No, you are wrong. Let me remind you that I said I do not support the PKK. Go back and read my first post again. But we should never side with Turkey against the Kurds. We should not let Turkey attack Kurds in Iraq. Turkey is no ally of the US, and NATO is not worth the paper it is written on. Just look at French, German, and Turk behavior in Afghanistan. They might as well go home for all the help they provide. NATO is an obsolete relic of the Cold War and is demonstrating its irrelevance everyday in Afghanistan, where it is having trouble raising enough troops to beat the Taliban for God's sake. Even the Northern Alliance kicked the stuff out of the Taliban. NATO was a big help in Iraq wasn't it? The only thing Turkey wants from the US (besides our military hardware) is to get out of the way so it can kill Iraqi Kurds.

 

[Dr Grump]

Your WRONG. Turkey is a member of NATO, is an ally and is a democracy of sorts. WE MUST side with TURKEY. Failure to do so makes any claim we make or any action we take against OUR terrorist enemies suspect.

The ends NEVER justify the means. We are at war with terrorism. We either fight it or we don't. Turkey is a sovereign NATION, it has the right, duty and responsibility to protect itself and its citizens. Supporting terrorism is NEVER the right answer.

We have other avenues to take in regards Turkey's conduct inside their borders for their people. Unless you are suggesting we go to war with Turkey we can NOT support, defend or protect Kurdish terrorists.

Methinks somebody around here needs to bone up on Kurdish history....onedomino is right, since the Ottomans the Turks have been massacring Kurds...30,000 at last count (and that is only modern history)...Kurds need a homeland, Turkey, Iran and Iraq need to give them one. Iraq has already (sort of)...

 

[Vintij]

No, you are wrong. Let me remind you that I said I do not support the PKK. Go back and read my first post again. But we should never side with Turkey against the Kurds. We should not let Turkey attack Kurds in Iraq. Turkey is no ally of the US, and NATO is not worth the paper it is written on. Just look at French, German, and Turk behavior in Afghanistan. They might as well go home for all the help they provide. NATO is an obsolete relic of the Cold War and is demonstrating its irrelevance everyday in Afghanistan, where it is having trouble raising enough troops to beat the Taliban for God's sake. Even the Northern Alliance kicked the stuff out of the Taliban. NATO was a big help in Iraq wasn't it? The only thing Turkey wants from the US (besides our military hardware) is to get out of the way so it can kill Iraqi Kurds.

Your right, but Turkey is still part of Nato and Nato is our ally, but we need to settle this diplomatically. We cant allow turks to invade kurdish groups in Iraq, but we also cant take the intel from turky lightly. We tell them...no you cant cross the boarder beause this is iraq territory, stay over there or help secure the boarder.

The thing is, we need their help, we dont need to turn against turkey. We need all the boarder help we can get but we cant allow turkey to disregard our authority in Iraq. We are there right now, so we decide who crosses over.

 

[Shogun]

oh how those black and white issues turn grey
enough to wave a banner while looking away.....



to support terrorist behavior from kurds (that would send most of you into the same ole "killem all" speach were they palistinians) against a percieved enemy (that is still a sovereign, if muslim, nation) or not to.. THAT sure is a question, isnt it?



please, go on...


this conversation, and the quotes popping up left and right, are rich...


and hilariously removed from the usual knee-jerk reaction to understanding the same ole same ole conflict..

 

[RetiredGySgt]

oh how those black and white issues turn grey
enough to wave a banner while looking away.....



to support terrorist behavior from kurds (that would send most of you into the same ole "killem all" speach were they palistinians) against a percieved enemy (that is still a sovereign, if muslim, nation) or not to.. THAT sure is a question, isnt it?



please, go on...


this conversation, and the quotes popping up left and right, are rich...


and hilariously removed from the usual knee-jerk reaction to understanding the same ole same ole conflict..

Laugh all you want. You are part and parcel of the world wide problem.

 

[onedomino]

oh how those black and white issues turn grey
enough to wave a banner while looking away.....


to support terrorist behavior from kurds (that would send most of you into the same ole "killem all" speach were they palistinians) against a percieved enemy (that is still a sovereign, if muslim, nation) or not to.. THAT sure is a question, isnt it?

please, go on...

this conversation, and the quotes popping up left and right, are rich...

and hilariously removed from the usual knee-jerk reaction to understanding the same ole same ole conflict..

What? Not one statement in this thread supported the PKK. Your post was virtually incomprehensible. It was in Chips Rafferty’s league. By the way, do us a favor and run a spell check program occasionally. Your post made you look illiterate.

 

[Bullypulpit]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/30/turkey.border.ap/index.html

Wonder when they are going to go before the UN to get approval for action? Also, how are they going to form their coalition? And of course, most importantly, when are they going to tell everyone what their plan is and the timetable/milestones for everything?

Turkey is simply following Bush's example of the doctrine of preemption. Not the greatest recipe for international stability.

 

[Shogun]

Laugh all you want. You are part and parcel of the world wide problem.

while your shit dont stink, right buddy?


funny how that seems to be your M.O.


I bet you dont like it when the obvious backhands you in the face like a pimp collecting his street money... seems to happen a lot to you lately, doent it?

 

[Shogun]

What? Not one statement in this thread supported the PKK. Your post was virtually incomprehensible. It was in Chips Rafferty’s league. By the way, do us a favor and run a spell check program occasionally. Your post made you look illiterate.

while your incomprehension makes you look like a down syndrome child at a spelling bee. Perhaps if you took your tongue off of rush limbaughs taint long enough see that attacking grammer is about as convincing as throwing down the nazi gauntlet... or, just flail about while the reality of your hypocracy keeps your tired double standard in place long enough to make any actual benevolent effort in the world a complete waste human lives.


kan yu reed dis, numnutz? I wunt too macke shurre thet yu havve sumethin to repli two sho dat yu feal schmart inn a threade thet ecksposes yur dubble standerd inn defyning hoo qualifys four thhe lable "TERRORIST".

 

[onedomino]

while your incomprehension makes you look like a down syndrome child at a spelling bee. Perhaps if you took your tongue off of rush limbaughs taint long enough see that attacking grammer is about as convincing as throwing down the nazi gauntlet... or, just flail about while the reality of your hypocracy keeps your tired double standard in place long enough to make any actual benevolent effort in the world a complete waste human lives.


kan yu reed dis, numnutz? I wunt too macke shurre thet yu havve sumethin to repli two sho dat yu feal schmart inn a threade thet ecksposes yur dubble standerd inn defyning hoo qualifys four thhe lable "TERRORIST".

Incomprehensible word salad. Classic symptom of psychosis. I did, however, discern the leftist lunatic smell.

 

[Shogun]

how WITTY.


ad hominems and standard baseless shit talking.


you are about as accurate as Bill Frist diagnosing Terry Schiavo from the senate floor if you think throwing around words like psychosis means anything on an internet messageboard...

hey.. maybe you can call me a godless pinko fag next and REALLY get your mouth a foamin'....



grammir end spulling gud enuff four yu? I wunt tu macke shure yur ego hass sumethin too repli to.

 

[Gunny]

Methinks somebody around here needs to bone up on Kurdish history....onedomino is right, since the Ottomans the Turks have been massacring Kurds...30,000 at last count (and that is only modern history)...Kurds need a homeland, Turkey, Iran and Iraq need to give them one. Iraq has already (sort of)...

I think y'all are talking across one another. RetiredGySgt is saying we should not support Kurd terrorists. All onedomino is seeing is "kurd."

We cannot justify defending terrorists, period. So long as Turkey attacks PPK strongholds and confines itself to that, I don't see that we need to be involved in anything more than monitoring their actions.

If it proves Turkey is just out to randomly murder kurds, THEN we should step in and stop them, even if it means confronting a so-called NATO ally.

But according to canavar, our resident ultra-nationalist Turk, we couldn't stop Turkey anyway.

 

[Annie]

I think y'all are talking across one another. RetiredGySgt is saying we should not support Kurd terrorists. All onedomino is seeing is "kurd."

We cannot justify defending terrorists, period. So long as Turkey attacks PPK strongholds and confines itself to that, I don't see that we need to be involved in anything more than monitoring their actions.

If it proves Turkey is just out to randomly murder kurds, THEN we should step in and stop them, even if it means confronting a so-called NATO ally.

But according to canavar, our resident ultra-nationalist Turk, we couldn't stop Turkey anyway.

Thanks for that. Pkk is terrorist, but most Kurds are not of that ilk, sort of like IRA and Irish.

Turkey would like, if Canavar is right, to use the minority to take over all of Kurd lands, because of PKK.