Turkey Again Stonewalling USA

[Orange_Juice]

The White House thinks that deploying a vessel such as the hospital ship USNS Comfort would showcase the Bush administration's support for Georgia and signal U.S. concern that Russia has sparked a humanitarian crisis in Georgia.

The Pentagon officials, who both spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss internal policy deliberations, said the move is unnecessary. Last week, the U.S. military sent a 12-member assessment team to determine how much humanitarian aid Georgians need.



Moreover, to send the Comfort, a destroyer or any other major naval vessel, the Bush administration would need to obtain permission from Turkey under the Montreux Convention, an international treaty that regulates naval passage in the Black Sea. So far, Turkey, which controls the Bosporus and the Dardanelles that link the Mediterranean and the Black Seas, has refused, the Pentagon officials told McClatchy.

The White House is frustrated, the officials said, but the Pentagon is unperturbed.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 08/20/2008 | Pentagon, White House at odds over aid to Georgia

 

[Denny Crane]

First Turkey refused to allow us to unload our ships to mount a northern assault on Iraq in the early stage of the Iraq war, then they ventured into Iraq with armed assaults on areas in Iraq, and now this. At what point will Washington realize these turkey's aren't one of allies?

 

[dilloduck]

The White House thinks that deploying a vessel such as the hospital ship USNS Comfort would showcase the Bush administration's support for Georgia and signal U.S. concern that Russia has sparked a humanitarian crisis in Georgia.

The Pentagon officials, who both spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to discuss internal policy deliberations, said the move is unnecessary. Last week, the U.S. military sent a 12-member assessment team to determine how much humanitarian aid Georgians need.



Moreover, to send the Comfort, a destroyer or any other major naval vessel, the Bush administration would need to obtain permission from Turkey under the Montreux Convention, an international treaty that regulates naval passage in the Black Sea. So far, Turkey, which controls the Bosporus and the Dardanelles that link the Mediterranean and the Black Seas, has refused, the Pentagon officials told McClatchy.

The White House is frustrated, the officials said, but the Pentagon is unperturbed.

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 08/20/2008 | Pentagon, White House at odds over aid to Georgia

It's the thought counts

 

[editec]

First Turkey refused to allow us to unload our ships to mount a northern assault on Iraq in the early stage of the Iraq war, then they ventured into Iraq with armed assaults on areas in Iraq, and now this. At what point will Washington realize these turkey's aren't one of allies?

When it's convenient.

Right now we're somewhat busy fighting two land wars in Asia, and getting reinvolved in a cold war footing with Russia.

We need Turkey more than they need us, sport.

 

[Denny Crane]

When it's convenient.

Right now we're somewhat busy fighting two land wars in Asia, and getting reinvolved in a cold war footing with Russia.

We need Turkey more than they need us, sport.

I realize we need them but my point is every time that we rely on them they brush us off.

 

[editec]

I realize we need them but my point is every time that we rely on them they brush us off.

No, that's not really true.

They brush us off when they think what we want will cost them more than they can afford to pay.


When for eample, we want help from them invading a Moselm nation.

Their leadership knows not to dip their dicks in that hornet's nest.

Would that ours had the same sense.

 

[Denny Crane]

No, that's not really true.

They brush us off when they think what we want will cost them more than they can afford to pay.


When for eample, we want help from them invading a Moselm nation.

Their leadership knows not to dip their dicks in that hornet's nest.

Would that ours had the same sense.

The truth depends on what you consider an allie and what I consider one to be I guess.

A fair weather friend isn't necessarily an allie to me.

 

[Anguille]

I realize we need them but my point is every time that we rely on them they brush us off.

That's the way of the world. Every nation for itself.

 

[Denny Crane]

That's the way of the world. Every nation for itself.

I agree, it seems that way to me unless some other country wants something from us.

 

[Anguille]

I agree, it seems that way to me unless some other country wants something from us.

Or us from them.

 

[editec]

The truth depends on what you consider an allie and what I consider one to be I guess.

A fair weather friend isn't necessarily an allie to me.

Well Denny, when it comes to geopolitics, all nations are fair weather friends.

And if you think about it for a moment, tht is probably a good thing, too.

As events move our world, alliances and foes alike must change.

Having a government not able to respond to those changes spells doom for that nation.

Consider that the USA would STILL be mortal enemies with Britian, if such pragmatism wasn't part of our foreign policy.

 

[Huoliuhi]

Bump! thx !

 

[Lycurgus]

It's amazing. None of this would surprise Europe or those in the Middle East, but Washington just doesn't get the different cultures, religions and politics of the world. The Turkish history makes it clear they need to be kept on a short leash, always needing you and strong armed.

 

[Lycurgus]

First Turkey refused to allow us to unload our ships to mount a northern assault on Iraq in the early stage of the Iraq war, then they ventured into Iraq with armed assaults on areas in Iraq, and now this. At what point will Washington realize these turkey's aren't one of allies?

You know Denny, the crap they pulled by not letting us mount an assault from the north in Iraq very well has cost us American lives and very well has extended our stay in Iraq. Yes, things must be give and take. Yes, most nations will be self serving, but, Turkey proved beyond doubt that they are not even a fair weathered partner, not when American lives are on the line. Turkey has ridden Bush and his team like old whores. Bush should have played hardball with them over Iraq and after not letting into the North, when they crossed the Iraqi border we should have spanked them. Mongrels only understand one thing, a strong hand.

 

[Neubarth]

Though Turkey is very modern and secular, it is rapidly swinging towards Radical Islam. We should be thankful for the little support they have given us in the past. We will probably receive a lot less in the future.

 

[ekrem]

“The trade volume between Turkey and Russia is expected to reach $38 billion this year, up from $27 billion the previous year, according to Turkish estimates,” reported the Turkish Daily News. Turkish investments into the Russian economy amount to $5 billion, and the overall volume of Russian contracts signed by Turkish construction firms is in excess of $25 billion.
http://www.jamestown.org/uploads/media/Torbakov_Russia_Turkey.pdf
Big business going on.

Interesting stuff follows quoteing Russian official Army newspaper and other official Russian state newspapers:


When Lavrov visited Turkey in early September, he backed Ankara’s ambitious plan (Caucasus Stability Pact) for the stabilization of the Caucasus. “The countries of the region themselves should resolve their problems,” said Russia’s top diplomat. This key principle, he added, tellingly, constitutes the “main value” of the Turkish initiative. 44 Later, in a long interview with Rossiiskaya Gazeta, Russia’s government newspaper, Lavrov praised the sophistication of the Turkish diplomacy:

In my opinion, the Turks have very timely understood the uniqueness of
the moment… which allows them to raise their profile in the region. They
are the immediate neighbors of the Caucasus and at the same time
[Turkey is] the actor that has good relations with almost all the countries
of the Caucasus region. The Turkish idea that it is above all the regional
countries that have to collectively think about [setting up] some platform
for stability and cooperation in the Caucasus reflects the maturity of the
Turkish diplomacy. 45

Russian pundits’ analyses of the shifts in Turkey’s Caucasus policy often seek to place
Ankara’s international behavior in a broader context of the country’s relations with
Washington and Brussels. While Turkey continues to be a key ally of the West, some
Russian experts note that it is becoming increasingly frustrated with the Western
attitude. Turkey, they argue, has for too long been seen by Washington and Brussels
mainly as the barrier against the spreading of at first Soviet and now Russian geopolitical
influence. In other words, it has been regarded above all as a “military-political partner.”
Europe, Russian analysts claim, does not demonstrate its willingness to achieve a “full-blooded integration” with Turkey which would include also economic and cultural
aspects. 46 As a result, Ankara appears to have lost all hopes of becoming a full member of the EU. Some Russian observers even suggested that the Turks probably became somewhat jealous when they saw how passionately certain Western politicians were backing the idea of Georgia’s EU membership. All these factors have likely contributed to Turkey’s decision to “launch an independent Caucasus policy and mull the possibility of forging an alliance with Russia,” argues a commentary published in the Rossiiskie Vesti newspaper under the telltale title “Russian-Turkish Entente Cordiale?” 47
This Russo-Turkish regional alliance, Russian analysts argue, will emerge as a natural
outcome of Moscow’s and Ankara’s common concerns about U.S. “destabilizing policies” in the South Caucasus. Furthermore, some Russian strategists point out that the Turks are wary of U.S. activism in the Black Sea region. For at least two centuries, they say, Turkish elites have been accustomed to perceive the Black Sea as an “internal lake” they shared with Russia. The establishment of U.S. military infrastructure in Bulgaria and Romania – littoral countries that recently became NATO members – has made the Turks unhappy. 48 In this respect, too, Russia, which opposes NATO eastward expansion and is adamantly against U.S. military deployments close to its borders, presents itself as Ankara’s potential ally.
In this sense, the Georgia war might well become an eye-opening moment for Turkish
strategists, some Russian pundits suggest. “Why does Turkey need an alliance with the
U.S. in the Caucasus if it cannot protect its political and energy interests?” one Russian
commentator asks. 49 At the same time, the August crisis seemed to drive home an
important message: Russia treats its national interests in the Caucasus as seriously as ever, and Ankara can increase its influence in the region only through coordinating its moves with Moscow. 50
The Russians seem to believe that the recent crisis in the Caucasus prompted the Turkish leadership to undertake a major rethink of regional geopolitics and shift gears. “Gul and Erdogan understood that in their search for the regional stability and security they were moving in the wrong direction,” and now Ankara is about to turn to Moscow, some Russian analysts contend. 51 One commentary went so far as to suggest the emergence of the Russian-Turkish condominium in the South Caucasus. “It would seem that Ankara is simply offering Moscow to divide up the Caucasus between the two to them, with Turkey taking on a part of the responsibility for stability and security in the region,” wrote the Rossiiskaya Gazeta newspaper. 52 For its part, the Kremlin can only welcome Turkey’s leaning toward Russia and, naturally, is supportive of Ankara’s Caucasus
initiative as it reduces American strategic involvement in Caucasus affairs and helps make
the region more “self-sustainable” and “dependent on the local players,” among whom
Moscow is of course an indisputable leader. 53
One cannot fail to notice that Russian planners view the Caucasus Pact blueprint in
general and Russia-Turkey relations in particular through the prism of a zero-sum game
with the Americans. As the influential Kommersant newspaper put it in a recent
commentary, the most important feature of the CSCP is that it “will allow Moscow and
Ankara to strengthen their positions in the Caucasus thereby weakening Washington’s
influence in the region.” 54
Symptomatically, the notion of Russo-Turkish rapprochement appears to have a
particular appeal for the Russian military. Writing in the Krasnaya Zvezda, the Russian
army newspaper, the security analyst Vadim Timokhin asserts that the stereotypes of
Turkey as a “second-rate” country, America’s loyal ally in the Middle East, NATO’s
outpost in the Caucasus, etc., are somewhat misleading if not plain wrong. The Caucasus
crisis and Ankara’s reaction to it, the analyst argues, warrant a thorough rethinking of
Turkey’s strategic posture. 55 The commentary enthuses about the prospects for a
Russian-Turkish alliance. The shifts in Turkey’s foreign policy orientation and its
massive trade ties with Russia “provide an opportunity for finally drawing a line under the
epoch of confrontation in the history of our relations,” Timokhin suggests. “A
rapprochement between Moscow and Ankara gives a chance to turn the Transcaucasus
into a zone of stability and cooperation while neutralizing the efforts of the ‘third parties’
aimed at maintaining geopolitical instability in the region.” 56

So far, the official rhetoric in both countries stresses the commonality of interests and
exalts the values of cooperation. Judging by the pronouncements of Russian and Turkish
leaders, Ankara and Moscow have emerged from the Georgia war as the best of friends.
“Our relations with the Russian Federation have actually gone beyond the special,”
Turkish Prime Minister Erdoğan told reporters at the Victory Day reception in Ankara. 82
For his part, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev highly praised the Russian-Turkish
“multifaceted partnership.” Speaking on September 18 at the Kremlin ceremony at which
the new Turkish Ambassador to Moscow Halil Akinci presented his credentials to him,
Medvedev said that “the cooperation between our countries is a significant factor in
ensuring peace, security and stability in the Black Sea and the Caucasus.” 83
But the geopolitical tussle in the volatile Caucasus is far from over. Some Russian and
Turkish analysts appear to be anticipating a less than altruistic scenario: first, Ankara and
Moscow will succeed in dramatically reducing U.S. influence in the region; then, they
will lock horns in the scramble over the “American succession.”
http://www.jamestown.org/uploads/media/Torbakov_Russia_Turkey.pdf