Truth About Arctic and Greenland Ice

[Old Rocks]

And the Steelers win footbal games and cute, fuzzy kittens play with yarn. Are any of these things connected?

Changing the subject doesn't make a good point.

Yes, the melting ice and the 40% rise in atmospheric CO2 are connected.

The ice melts for various reasons. The ice on Kilamanjaro, f'rinstance, melted due to a drop in humidity. The ice globally melted to the same point it has melted to today about 7000 to 5000 years back and CO2 was not higher than it was 300 years ago during the little ice Age. Except for the Ice in Antarctica and on Greenland, there is no ice on the planet that predates the end of the last Ice Age.

With all of the varied forcing factors at work with the climate and the obvious weakness of the forcing of CO2, why are you sold on this obviously wrong theory?

Why do you think it is obviously wrong when the phycists, geologist, meteorologists, and climatologists all state that CO2 is the primary forcing agent of the present warming?

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

 

[Old Rocks]

I keep asking you DUMB ASSES. If the current trend is going to wipe out the ice, HOW COME in the 30's and 40's when the temperatures were HIGHER for a LONGER period of time there was no mass flooding and the ice survived JUST fine?

Because the temps were not higher in the 30' and 40's. Eleven of the warmest years in the last 150 have happened in the last 13 years.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I keep asking you DUMB ASSES. If the current trend is going to wipe out the ice, HOW COME in the 30's and 40's when the temperatures were HIGHER for a LONGER period of time there was no mass flooding and the ice survived JUST fine?

Because the temps were not higher in the 30' and 40's. Eleven of the warmest years in the last 150 have happened in the last 13 years.

Look you fucking RETARD, just like you all keep reminding us that different places on the global have different temperatures, the GRAPH clearly proves you WRONG.

Or are you just ignoring the evidence cause it doesn't suit you? Go ahead you dumb ass refute the graph.

 

[KittenKoder]

I keep asking you DUMB ASSES. If the current trend is going to wipe out the ice, HOW COME in the 30's and 40's when the temperatures were HIGHER for a LONGER period of time there was no mass flooding and the ice survived JUST fine?

Because the temps were not higher in the 30' and 40's. Eleven of the warmest years in the last 150 have happened in the last 13 years.

Look you fucking RETARD, just like you all keep reminding us that different places on the global have different temperatures, the GRAPH clearly proves you WRONG.

Or are you just ignoring the evidence cause it doesn't suit you? Go ahead you dumb ass refute the graph.

They are ignoring evidence, it's the only way environut science works. The bigger of a picture you look at, the more their theories unravel.

 

[KittenKoder]

Global Warming, brought to you by the people who gave you the gem: Y-2-K!

 

[Old Rocks]

I keep asking you DUMB ASSES. If the current trend is going to wipe out the ice, HOW COME in the 30's and 40's when the temperatures were HIGHER for a LONGER period of time there was no mass flooding and the ice survived JUST fine?

Because the temps were not higher in the 30' and 40's. Eleven of the warmest years in the last 150 have happened in the last 13 years.

Look you fucking RETARD, just like you all keep reminding us that different places on the global have different temperatures, the GRAPH clearly proves you WRONG.

Or are you just ignoring the evidence cause it doesn't suit you? Go ahead you dumb ass refute the graph.

Sarge, you are a total idiot.

Top 11 Warmest Years On Record Have All Been In Last 13 Years

Top 11 Warmest Years On Record Have All Been In Last 13 Years
ScienceDaily (Dec. 13, 2007) — The decade of 1998-2007 is the warmest on record, according to data sources obtained by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO). The global mean surface temperature for 2007 is currently estimated at 0.41°C/0.74°F above the 1961-1990 annual average of 14.00°C/57.20°F.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The University of East Anglia and the Met Office's Hadley Centre have released preliminary global temperature figures for 2007, which show the top 11 warmest years all occurring in the last 13 years. The provisional global figure for 2007 using data from January to November, currently places the year as the seventh warmest on records dating back to 1850.

Other remarkable global climatic events recorded so far in 2007 include record-low Arctic sea ice extent, which led to first recorded opening of the Canadian Northwest Passage; the relatively small Antarctic Ozone Hole; development of La Niña in the central and eastern Equatorial Pacific; and devastating floods, drought and storms in many places around the world.

 

[KittenKoder]

Because the temps were not higher in the 30' and 40's. Eleven of the warmest years in the last 150 have happened in the last 13 years.

Look you fucking RETARD, just like you all keep reminding us that different places on the global have different temperatures, the GRAPH clearly proves you WRONG.

Or are you just ignoring the evidence cause it doesn't suit you? Go ahead you dumb ass refute the graph.

Sarge, you are a total idiot.

Top 11 Warmest Years On Record Have All Been In Last 13 Years

Top 11 Warmest Years On Record Have All Been In Last 13 Years
ScienceDaily (Dec. 13, 2007) — The decade of 1998-2007 is the warmest on record, according to data sources obtained by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO). The global mean surface temperature for 2007 is currently estimated at 0.41°C/0.74°F above the 1961-1990 annual average of 14.00°C/57.20°F.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The University of East Anglia and the Met Office's Hadley Centre have released preliminary global temperature figures for 2007, which show the top 11 warmest years all occurring in the last 13 years. The provisional global figure for 2007 using data from January to November, currently places the year as the seventh warmest on records dating back to 1850.

Other remarkable global climatic events recorded so far in 2007 include record-low Arctic sea ice extent, which led to first recorded opening of the Canadian Northwest Passage; the relatively small Antarctic Ozone Hole; development of La Niña in the central and eastern Equatorial Pacific; and devastating floods, drought and storms in many places around the world.

Takes one to know one ...

But using a million different reports based on one flawed set of data values, does not make those data findings accurate.

 

[Old Rocks]

2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century
mongabay.com
January 17, 2008





2007 tied 1998 as the second warmest year in a century say climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). 2005 remains the warmest year over the past 100 years.

Using temperature data from weather stations on land, satellite measurements of sea ice temperature since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years, Goddard Institute found the greatest warming in 2007 occurred in the Arctic and neighboring high latitude regions.

"As we predicted last year, 2007 was warmer than 2006, continuing the strong warming trend of the past 30 years that has been confidently attributed to the effect of increasing human-made greenhouse gases," said James Hansen, director of NASA GISS.
2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century

 

[Old Rocks]

LONDON - Next year is set to be one of the top-five warmest on record, British climate scientists said on Tuesday.

The average global temperature for 2009 is expected to be more than 0.4 degrees celsius above the long-term average, despite the continued cooling of huge areas of the Pacific Ocean, a phenomenon known as La Nina.

That would make it the warmest year since 2005, according to researchers at the Met Office, who say there is also a growing probability of record temperatures after next year.

Currently the warmest year on record is 1998, which saw average temperatures of 14.52 degrees celsius - well above the 1961-1990 long-term average of 14 degrees celsius.

Warm weather that year was strongly influenced by El Nino, an abnormal warming of surface ocean waters in the eastern tropical Pacific.

Theories abound as to what triggers the mechanisms that cause an El Nino or La Nina event but scientists agree that they are playing an increasingly important role in global weather patterns.

The strength of the prevailing trade winds that blow from east to west across the equatorial Pacific is thought to be an important factor.

"Further warming to record levels is likely once a moderate El Nino develops," said Professor Chris Folland at the Met Office Hadley Center. "Phenomena such as El Nino and La Nina have a significant influence on global surface temperature."

Professor Phil Jones, director of the climate research unit at the University of East Anglia, said global warming had not gone away despite the fact that 2009, like the year just gone, would not break records.

"What matters is the underlying rate of warming," he said.

He noted the average temperature over 2001-2007 was 14.44 degrees celsius, 0.21 degrees celsius warmer than corresponding values for 1991-2000.
World Environment News - 2009 To Be One Of Warmest Years On Record: Researchers - Planet Ark

 

[KittenKoder]

2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century
mongabay.com
January 17, 2008





2007 tied 1998 as the second warmest year in a century say climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). 2005 remains the warmest year over the past 100 years.

Using temperature data from weather stations on land, satellite measurements of sea ice temperature since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years, Goddard Institute found the greatest warming in 2007 occurred in the Arctic and neighboring high latitude regions.

"As we predicted last year, 2007 was warmer than 2006, continuing the strong warming trend of the past 30 years that has been confidently attributed to the effect of increasing human-made greenhouse gases," said James Hansen, director of NASA GISS.
2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century

Using the same flawed data still ...

 

[Old Rocks]

2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century
mongabay.com
January 17, 2008





2007 tied 1998 as the second warmest year in a century say climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). 2005 remains the warmest year over the past 100 years.

Using temperature data from weather stations on land, satellite measurements of sea ice temperature since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years, Goddard Institute found the greatest warming in 2007 occurred in the Arctic and neighboring high latitude regions.

"As we predicted last year, 2007 was warmer than 2006, continuing the strong warming trend of the past 30 years that has been confidently attributed to the effect of increasing human-made greenhouse gases," said James Hansen, director of NASA GISS.
2007 ties 1998 as second warmest year in past century

Using the same flawed data still ...

Your proof of which is?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Leonard Weinstein ScD, former member of NASA and current member of the National Institute of Aerospace, elaborates on the actual temperature fluctuations and the resulting impacts on Arctic and Greenland ice cover - and deflates the CO2 connection utilized by the Global Warmers.

In his paper Weinstein makes clear that the Antarctic is actually cooling and sea ice formation is expanding - but the focus of the paper is primarily on the Arctic regions.

One of the more interesting aspects of Weinstein's work was his blasting of the more recent temperature graphs that are so often utilized to display dramatic rising in Arctic temperatures - such as this example:

My goodness that does look dramatic!!!

But of course, that graph has a starting point at a low temperature period for that region that took place in the 1960s and 1970s. (When all those environut "Impending Ice Age" stories were taking place)

When one shows a far more responsible scientific temperature graph going back to the 1800s, we see today's Arctic temperatures in a far less alarming light:

Here we see quite varied fluctuations in Arctic temperatures over a hundred-plus time span - and note that by far the warmest period was in fact the 1940s - nearly 70 years ago!! Current arctic temperatures are similar to what they were in the early 1960's, cooler than the were in the 1950's, and far cooler than they were in the 1930's and
1940's. The one time period when temperatures were dramatically cooler was the end of the 19th Century when the earth was coming out of what is commonly called a "Little Ice Age." (Which some in the scientific community are stating we are heading into another such phase: Russian Scientist Predicts 'mini Ice Age' - Due to low solar activity - Softpedia Weinstein also notes that the largest jump in recent Arctic temperatures occured at the turn of the 20th Century, long before the more current increases in man-made CO2 levels took place.

If one utilizes an even longer time period of Arctic temperatures, we realize today's "alarming" temperatures are in fact on the cooler side of normal. Weinstein makes the quite plausible claim that the more popular current temperature maps that take a brief and selective view of current temperatures are nothing more than pre-determined scientific arlarmism:

The Truth About Arctic and Greenland Ice « the Air Vent

Here is the graph again you fucking moron. It CLEARLY shows that from the 20's through the 40's the arctic region was warmer and for longer than currently. Dispute THAT fact you dumb ass.

Again why was there any ice left? if according to you the current trend which is weaker and mot as long as the previous one will destroy all the ice why was any left after the last one?

Ohh and I better not catch you claiming that North American temperatures are different from the rest of the planet again, since you continue to argue here that it just ain't possible.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

In his paper Weinstein makes clear that the Antarctic is actually cooling and sea ice formation is expanding - but the focus of the paper is primarily on the Arctic regions.

What "paper" ? Its an email sent to a blog, that's not a scientific paper. I could send an email to a blog, right now, and tell them any bullshit I wanted.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In his paper Weinstein makes clear that the Antarctic is actually cooling and sea ice formation is expanding - but the focus of the paper is primarily on the Arctic regions.

What "paper" ? Its an email sent to a blog, that's not a scientific paper. I could send an email to a blog, right now, and tell them any bullshit I wanted.

Ya cause you have such standing as to be taken seriously. Isn't it amazing how ONLY the people the left decides are credible matter? And when they are discredited the left just keeps using them as if nothing happened.

Check out the graph dumb ass and answer the question. If this warming trend which is of a lesser time frame and lesser temperatures in the region then the 20's - 40's one was, why was there any ice left in the 50's when you retards are claiming this time it will all melt? Why weren't the sea levels raised, New York and east coast flooded?

 

[Old Rocks]

When an article passes peer review in a scientific journal, the methodology, supporting evidence are all checked. When someone posts in a blog, nothing is checked.

Peer reviewed scientific journals are a far better and more reliable source of information than wingnut blogs. Even dumb fucking sargeants should know that!

 

[elvis]

When an article passes peer review in a scientific journal, the methodology, supporting evidence are all checked. When someone posts in a blog, nothing is checked.

Peer reviewed scientific journals are a far better and more reliable source of information than wingnut blogs. Even dumb fucking sargeants should know that!

Hey Roxy, you may want to learn to spell before you start calling people dumb.

Just a thought, asshole.

 

[elvis]

When did Old Roxy start getting off on insulting servicemen? Chrissy must be whispering sweet nothings in his ear again.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When an article passes peer review in a scientific journal, the methodology, supporting evidence are all checked. When someone posts in a blog, nothing is checked.

Peer reviewed scientific journals are a far better and more reliable source of information than wingnut blogs. Even dumb fucking sargeants should know that!

Address the Graph NUMB NUTS. Either it is accurate or it is not, pretty damn simple to check. You check it out. Once again since you are NOT disputing the graph, your entire bullshit response is trying to change the subject.

Also just for you dumb ass, Remind us how the Lancet report about a million dead Iraqis which WAS posted in peer review works was never peer reviewed. It is a sad fact that people like you encourage scientists to falsify and create from whole cloth material that IS NOT initially in this matter. And then eventually when it is proven false it is sweep under the rug and ignored.

Remember the Hockey Stick Graph?

The graph clearly invalidates every single one of your chicken little claims about the dire straights we are in. It proves the claim that the ice is melting faster then ever before is untrue. It proves that the ice will vanish is Untru. It proves that the coast, especially the East Coast of the US is in no danger at this time.

Of course you want it to go away. Guess what DUMB ASS, it isn't going away and your attempts to defelct from it are not working.

 

[auditor0007]

All I know is that it's June 1st, and my heater is still kicking in because it's cold outside. When is summer going to get here?

 

[Sinatra]

Dr. Weinstein has 35 years experience at the NASA Langley Research Center where he was a Senior Research Scientist and is currently a Senior Research Fellow at the National Institute of Aerospace.

His position is not that the earth didn't experience some warming in the last decade, but that the warming was far less than predicted by the likes of the IPCC report and alarmists such as Hansen. Weinstein also maintains that the link between warming, and man-made causes is minimal, and any future climate warming will be far less than more recent alarmist predictions from the global warming crowd is now disseminating. He does propose continued policies to reduce overall human-made pollution - but believes the man-made greenhouse gas/global warming theory to be more propoganda than science.

Weinstein shows that an honest review of even recent earth temperatures shows variations between warmer and colder periods, including periods warmer than present yet before the more substantial rise in human-produced CO2 levels. (Such as the 1930s and 1940s, which were significantly warmer than the 1990's and certainly warmer than the last few years when temperatures have been in decline once again.)

Any attempts to disregard Weinstein's views on the subject is simply another example of those clinging on to their pre-determined global warming belief system. His opinion, like other climate realists in the scientific community, is worthy of serious consideration by anyone actually approaching this subject with an objective, science-based approach...