Trumpery has consequences: US losses from Trump’s China trade war will never be recovered ...

[CrusaderFrank]

What losses?

View attachment 290085
U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

Odd that it fell off the cliff as soon as China embraced capitalism in 1992

 

[Denizen]

What losses?

View attachment 290085
U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

1. So, it dropped more in the past, then it has now, but it is Trump's fault? Please explain.

2. But, I thought trade deficits don't matter, so why are you attacking Trump for increasing Trade Deficits?

3. If Trade Deficits do matter, then Trump is right that there is a huge problem that needs addressed, even if there is a significant cost.

Trump and his family are hypocrites because they have been importing manufactured goods from China instead of manufacturing in the USA.

Trump is being attacked for increasing trade deficits because he started a trade war to reduce the deficits. US farmer suicide deaths are collateral damage.

Donald Trump is incompetent.

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

 

[Jackson]

If trade wars are easy to win, why is the US losing?

Donald Trump is that stupid he doesn't even understand what damage he has done as he has attacked both the USA's friends and its enemies.

Donald Trump has trashed 'brand America' and damaged the reputation of the USA effectively causing a foreign consumer loss of interest in purchasing American goods because of the USA's unilateral actions against the trade of numerous countries.

USA industrial output is also declining, including manufacturing. Donald Trump is losing on all fronts.

US losses from Trump's China trade war will never be recovered, shipping data tells us

US losses from Trump’s China trade war will never be recovered, shipping data tells us
PUBLISHED WED, NOV 13 201911:44 AM ESTUPDATED WED, NOV 13 20194:24 PM EST
Lori Ann LaRocco

President Trump announced a month ago that his administration had clinched a “phase one” trade deal with China.
Since then, countless declarations of “winning,” but agreeing to a deal only “if the terms are right,” have added to the year and half long conflicting cacophony of rhetoric about the content of any trade agreement with China.
Bottom line? The constant bluster has blurred the reality of what a deal would even accomplish, if anything at all. The only way to shovel away the pile of broken promises and contradictory comments is to analyze the flow of maritime trade.

President Trump announced a month ago that his administration had clinched a trade deal with China. Well, actually, the first in a series of deals, which the White House now refers to as “phase one.”
Since then, countless declarations of “winning,” but agreeing to a deal only “if the terms are right,” have added to the year and half long conflicting cacophony of rhetoric about the content of any trade agreement with China.
Bottom line? The constant bluster has blurred the reality of what a deal would even accomplish, if anything at all. The only way to shovel away the pile of broken promises and contradictory comments is to analyze the flow of maritime trade.

Why? With 90% of all items in a house transported over water, it is the purest form of showing supply and demand. The flow of trade is agnostic. It moves regardless of who is “winning” or “losing.”

People underestimating the hit tariffs will have on the US, UBS economist says
The impact of this trade war and the opportunities lost by American businesses both large and small can not only be tracked by the public earnings reports, but through American exports.
And a deal, no matter what is agreed on, would never make up for the losses sustained during this trade war, according to calculations based on the decrease in volumes of containers, cargo and tankers that traveled into U.S. ports.

Dropping export volume
For a perspective on the losses, look no further than the Port of Los Angeles, the largest port in the country. U.S. exports to China from the bustling harbor decreased for 12 consecutive months. It suffered a 19.1% drop in export volume when comparing October 2019 with the same month in 2018.
China’s retaliatory tariffs hit 96.6% of the purchases of U.S. exports that traveled through the L.A. port complex, with a price tag of $19.9 billion.

Add on the additional retaliatory tariffs from the other countries the U.S. is sparring with on trade, and that brings the total of impacted export cargo to $20.2 billion, or 28.8% of all export value through the L.A. port system. Considering 95% of the world’s consumers are outside of the U.S., the tariffs imposed on American goods have priced them out of the global marketplace.

The receipt of losses is long and varied. The trade war expands beyond agriculture, which is $11 billion in the hole (and counting). The promises of President Trump of the $40 billion to $50 billion in agriculture buys by the Chinese in phase one is just an overblown headline. If you crunch the numbers, the two years before the trade war, the agriculture business community made $49.807 billion. China would have to buy $50 billion over the course of two years to make it a “win.” But is it really? If it was a win shouldn’t the lost revenue be added to that?

Agriculture is not the only sector trying to fill the leaking China bucket.
Data have shown China is expanding its LNG relationships with Qatar and Australia while essentially shutting off the United States.

Before the trade war, U.S. LNG volumes comprised 4.3% of Chinese imports and China accounted for 16% trailing twelve-month basis (TTM) of U.S. LNG exports.

In August 2019, China’s LNG volumes had slipped precipitously to 1% (TTM). Crude has also suffered a similar fate, accounting for 20% (TTM) of U.S. crude exports in Jan. 2018 to only 1.2% (TTM) in August 2019.
President Xi continues to press forward with the country’s Belt Road Initiative and China 2025 inking trade deals.

The flow of trade proves how China is moving away from the United States and turning to Europe.
Retail and technology have announced losses in the billions. According to the National Retail Federation, consumers and businesses have paid an additional $38 billion from the start of the trade war in February 2018 through September 2019. The Consumer Technology Association says the September tariffs added about $15.5 billion in extra tariffs.

So as the bluster blows and promises of winning mount, the actual flow of trade paints a very different picture.

Have you seen the stock market? It's soaring to great new heights while these talks with China continue and the low unemployment is extremely rare. All while consumer optimism is at an all time high.
All on the Trump watch.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If trade wars are easy to win, why is the US losing?

Donald Trump is that stupid he doesn't even understand what damage he has done as he has attacked both the USA's friends and its enemies.

Donald Trump has trashed 'brand America' and damaged the reputation of the USA effectively causing a foreign consumer loss of interest in purchasing American goods because of the USA's unilateral actions against the trade of numerous countries.

USA industrial output is also declining, including manufacturing. Donald Trump is losing on all fronts.

US losses from Trump's China trade war will never be recovered, shipping data tells us

US losses from Trump’s China trade war will never be recovered, shipping data tells us
PUBLISHED WED, NOV 13 201911:44 AM ESTUPDATED WED, NOV 13 20194:24 PM EST
Lori Ann LaRocco

President Trump announced a month ago that his administration had clinched a “phase one” trade deal with China.
Since then, countless declarations of “winning,” but agreeing to a deal only “if the terms are right,” have added to the year and half long conflicting cacophony of rhetoric about the content of any trade agreement with China.
Bottom line? The constant bluster has blurred the reality of what a deal would even accomplish, if anything at all. The only way to shovel away the pile of broken promises and contradictory comments is to analyze the flow of maritime trade.

President Trump announced a month ago that his administration had clinched a trade deal with China. Well, actually, the first in a series of deals, which the White House now refers to as “phase one.”
Since then, countless declarations of “winning,” but agreeing to a deal only “if the terms are right,” have added to the year and half long conflicting cacophony of rhetoric about the content of any trade agreement with China.
Bottom line? The constant bluster has blurred the reality of what a deal would even accomplish, if anything at all. The only way to shovel away the pile of broken promises and contradictory comments is to analyze the flow of maritime trade.

Why? With 90% of all items in a house transported over water, it is the purest form of showing supply and demand. The flow of trade is agnostic. It moves regardless of who is “winning” or “losing.”

People underestimating the hit tariffs will have on the US, UBS economist says
The impact of this trade war and the opportunities lost by American businesses both large and small can not only be tracked by the public earnings reports, but through American exports.
And a deal, no matter what is agreed on, would never make up for the losses sustained during this trade war, according to calculations based on the decrease in volumes of containers, cargo and tankers that traveled into U.S. ports.

Dropping export volume
For a perspective on the losses, look no further than the Port of Los Angeles, the largest port in the country. U.S. exports to China from the bustling harbor decreased for 12 consecutive months. It suffered a 19.1% drop in export volume when comparing October 2019 with the same month in 2018.
China’s retaliatory tariffs hit 96.6% of the purchases of U.S. exports that traveled through the L.A. port complex, with a price tag of $19.9 billion.

Add on the additional retaliatory tariffs from the other countries the U.S. is sparring with on trade, and that brings the total of impacted export cargo to $20.2 billion, or 28.8% of all export value through the L.A. port system. Considering 95% of the world’s consumers are outside of the U.S., the tariffs imposed on American goods have priced them out of the global marketplace.

The receipt of losses is long and varied. The trade war expands beyond agriculture, which is $11 billion in the hole (and counting). The promises of President Trump of the $40 billion to $50 billion in agriculture buys by the Chinese in phase one is just an overblown headline. If you crunch the numbers, the two years before the trade war, the agriculture business community made $49.807 billion. China would have to buy $50 billion over the course of two years to make it a “win.” But is it really? If it was a win shouldn’t the lost revenue be added to that?

Agriculture is not the only sector trying to fill the leaking China bucket.
Data have shown China is expanding its LNG relationships with Qatar and Australia while essentially shutting off the United States.

Before the trade war, U.S. LNG volumes comprised 4.3% of Chinese imports and China accounted for 16% trailing twelve-month basis (TTM) of U.S. LNG exports.

In August 2019, China’s LNG volumes had slipped precipitously to 1% (TTM). Crude has also suffered a similar fate, accounting for 20% (TTM) of U.S. crude exports in Jan. 2018 to only 1.2% (TTM) in August 2019.
President Xi continues to press forward with the country’s Belt Road Initiative and China 2025 inking trade deals.

The flow of trade proves how China is moving away from the United States and turning to Europe.
Retail and technology have announced losses in the billions. According to the National Retail Federation, consumers and businesses have paid an additional $38 billion from the start of the trade war in February 2018 through September 2019. The Consumer Technology Association says the September tariffs added about $15.5 billion in extra tariffs.

So as the bluster blows and promises of winning mount, the actual flow of trade paints a very different picture.

What losses? I see the stock market and job openings go up, and prices go down. YOU ARE CRAZY!

The prices of items have gone up, even at the grocery stores. The hedge fund people are playing the market. We are in the brink of a recession.
How Hedge Funds Created a Financial Crisis for Millions

but once again the Democrats will have to deal with it.

The prices of items have gone up, even at the grocery stores.

That's awful! It never happened before Trump, eh?

 

[Correll]

What losses?

View attachment 290085
U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

Odd that it fell off the cliff as soon as China embraced capitalism in 1992

Almost like the problem is them, not US.

 

[Correll]

What losses?

View attachment 290085
U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

1. So, it dropped more in the past, then it has now, but it is Trump's fault? Please explain.

2. But, I thought trade deficits don't matter, so why are you attacking Trump for increasing Trade Deficits?

3. If Trade Deficits do matter, then Trump is right that there is a huge problem that needs addressed, even if there is a significant cost.

Trump and his family are hypocrites because they have been importing manufactured goods from China instead of manufacturing in the USA.

Trump is being attacked for increasing trade deficits because he started a trade war to reduce the deficits. US farmer suicide deaths are collateral damage.

Donald Trump is incompetent.

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

 

[Denizen]

View attachment 290085
U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services (FT900)

1. So, it dropped more in the past, then it has now, but it is Trump's fault? Please explain.

2. But, I thought trade deficits don't matter, so why are you attacking Trump for increasing Trade Deficits?

3. If Trade Deficits do matter, then Trump is right that there is a huge problem that needs addressed, even if there is a significant cost.

Trump and his family are hypocrites because they have been importing manufactured goods from China instead of manufacturing in the USA.

Trump is being attacked for increasing trade deficits because he started a trade war to reduce the deficits. US farmer suicide deaths are collateral damage.

Donald Trump is incompetent.

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

 

[Correll]

1. So, it dropped more in the past, then it has now, but it is Trump's fault? Please explain.

2. But, I thought trade deficits don't matter, so why are you attacking Trump for increasing Trade Deficits?

3. If Trade Deficits do matter, then Trump is right that there is a huge problem that needs addressed, even if there is a significant cost.

Trump and his family are hypocrites because they have been importing manufactured goods from China instead of manufacturing in the USA.

Trump is being attacked for increasing trade deficits because he started a trade war to reduce the deficits. US farmer suicide deaths are collateral damage.

Donald Trump is incompetent.

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

 

[Denizen]

Trump and his family are hypocrites because they have been importing manufactured goods from China instead of manufacturing in the USA.

Trump is being attacked for increasing trade deficits because he started a trade war to reduce the deficits. US farmer suicide deaths are collateral damage.

Donald Trump is incompetent.

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

 

[Correll]

1. Fine, his position is somewhat hypocritical. Now, let's move on to what is good for the country.

2. So, what is your position on trade deficits?

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

True. And we can't compete with slave wages, or actual slavery. NOt to mention all the other cheats our trading "partners" play.


So, it doesn't work. So, why are we doing so much of it if it doesn't work?

 

[Denizen]

In the USA's case, the trade deficit is a structural problem caused by the value of the US$ being chronically excessive.

It won't be fixed by Trump's actions.

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

True. And we can't compete with slave wages, or actual slavery. NOt to mention all the other cheats our trading "partners" play.


So, it doesn't work. So, why are we doing so much of it if it doesn't work?

Because US still has some goods that are demanded by other countries. International trade benefits the USA and the rest of the world.

Imported manufactured goods are cheaper than US manufactured goods because the US$ is chronically too high and doesn't respond to market forces to lower its value because foreigners are investing their money in the USA, hence an excessive demand for US$ which makes its price too high.

 

[impuretrash]

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

True. And we can't compete with slave wages, or actual slavery. NOt to mention all the other cheats our trading "partners" play.


So, it doesn't work. So, why are we doing so much of it if it doesn't work?

Because US still has some goods that are demanded by other countries. International trade benefits the USA and the rest of the world.

Imported manufactured goods are cheaper than US manufactured goods because the US$ is chronically too high and doesn't respond to market forces to lower its value because foreigners are investing their money in the USA, hence an excessive demand for US$ which makes its price too high.

Chinese manufactured goods are cheaper because workers there are treated like slaves.

 

[The Purge]

US chickens headed to China after Beijing lifts 5-year ban

Star Herald ^ | 12 hours ago

China BLINKED as their people start to starve!

WASHINGTON (AP) — China is lifting a five-year ban on U.S. poultry, a goodwill gesture at a time when the world’s two biggest economies are trying to finalize a tentative trade deal.

China had blocked U.S. poultry imports a month after an outbreak of avian influenza in December 2014, closing off a market that bought more than $500 million worth of American chicken, turkey and other poultry products in 2013.

“The United States welcomes China’s decision to finally lift its unwarranted ban on U.S. poultry and poultry products. This is great news for both America’s farmers and China’s consumers,” said U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, who predicted that U.S. poultry exports to China could surpass $1 billion a year.

(please see link for full article)

Seems that the lying, fucking OP was fucking lying again!

 

[Correll]

So, he is attempting to fix the problem, but you think he is missing the real underlying cause, so he solution won't be effective?



Wow. That does not seem to justify your earlier harsh words.


I agree that the dollar, being the world's reserve currency is actually a minus for US. And even that Trump's actions seem to restrained to balance this issue.


What do you think should be done about it?

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

True. And we can't compete with slave wages, or actual slavery. NOt to mention all the other cheats our trading "partners" play.


So, it doesn't work. So, why are we doing so much of it if it doesn't work?

Because US still has some goods that are demanded by other countries. International trade benefits the USA and the rest of the world.

Imported manufactured goods are cheaper than US manufactured goods because the US$ is chronically too high and doesn't respond to market forces to lower its value because foreigners are investing their money in the USA, hence an excessive demand for US$ which makes its price too high.

What you just described does not require the massive, rust belt destroying, wage stagnating volume of trade we have now.



If the current model of Trade, as created by national trade policies around the world is not working for US, let's at least step back, and do less of it.


But I agree with you that a weak dollar would help the situation.

 

[Correll]

It has been recognized by US authorities that the US$ does not respond appropriately to adverse economic conditions, however no US government in recent times has identified any means to influence the value.

The only way to influence the value of the US$ is to tax investments by foreign entities that require foreign currency conversions so as to reduce the demand. This serves two purposes, it causes the US$ to fall, and adds to government revenue hich reduces debt.

That sounds difficult. And we do not have the ability to tax such investments overseas.


It seems to me, that the very idea of a level playing field, is flawed. OUr goal should be to use trade policy to balance out the factors that are out of our control.

Trade doesn't work if the price of your goods is not competitive.

True. And we can't compete with slave wages, or actual slavery. NOt to mention all the other cheats our trading "partners" play.


So, it doesn't work. So, why are we doing so much of it if it doesn't work?

Because US still has some goods that are demanded by other countries. International trade benefits the USA and the rest of the world.

Imported manufactured goods are cheaper than US manufactured goods because the US$ is chronically too high and doesn't respond to market forces to lower its value because foreigners are investing their money in the USA, hence an excessive demand for US$ which makes its price too high.

Chinese manufactured goods are cheaper because workers there are treated like slaves.

It is worth noting that we also have a sizable trade deficit with GERMANY, which does NOT treat their workers like slaves.



It is almost like, no matter the trading partner, we are the ones getting fucked.