Trump vs the 14th Amendment

[danielpalos]

If all persons born here, are not citizens, then all of the immigrant white people's children, would not be citizens as well.

there is no way that those who wrote the amendment would want this to be the case.

It has to include all persons, for the immigrant children of whites born on our soil, to be citizens.

This was part of the supreme court decision in the Wong Kim Ark case.

We arent talking about IMMIGRANTS.

You know better than this

i know that natural rights exist outside of abortion threads.

Explain what you mean?

Are you saying foreigners have a RIGHT to colonize another sovereign nation?

i am saying natural rights apply to those natural born citizens you allege to have a problem aborting.

You're not making any sense

you make even less sense.

 

[danielpalos]

We arent talking about IMMIGRANTS.

You know better than this

i know that natural rights exist outside of abortion threads.

Explain what you mean?

Are you saying foreigners have a RIGHT to colonize another sovereign nation?

i am saying natural rights apply to those natural born citizens you allege to have a problem aborting.

You're not making any sense

You haven't read his screed before? He claims Congress has no authority to regulate immigration. He claims no where in the Constitution is it granted that power. Even though I have shown him multiple times the section where Congress has just that authority.

show me the express, Immigration clause, right winger. don't Imply it.

Naturalization is the actual and express power delegated. We should have no illegals or illegal underclass with a naturalization clause.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

He can look at it all he wants. It's great reading. I hope he is able to comprehend it

Too bad you cant

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

The 14th Amendment birthright citizenship was meant to protect the freed slaves.
It was NEVER meant for the offspring of illegal aliens.
It's being abused.

Regardless of your (worthless) opinion...it is law...Constitutional Law

Yes, and liberals interpret it wrong.

Under the Chosen One, I believe that is about to change

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Move to Iran or China. You need some experience in the real world. They are just "imaginary lines drawn by crusty old men."

Then you'll get to experience real "robbers, murderers and kidnappers."

You are naive. I chalk it up to youth and lack of real world experience. They say a conservative is a liberal who once got mugged. I hope you can still LEARN from those "crusty old men." The kooks you've been following have done you a terrible disservice.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Move to Iran or China. You need some experience in the real world. They are just "imaginary lines drawn by crusty old men."

Then you'll get to experience real "robbers, murderers and kidnappers."

You are naive. I chalk it up to youth and lack of real world experience. They say a conservative is a liberal who once got mugged. I hope you can still LEARN from those "crusty old men." The kooks you've been following have done you a terrible disservice.

China and Iran are both authoritarian. "Open" and "Closed" boarders is a Government policy, I'm arguing that they don't exist, and whether or not people are let "through them" is just arbitrarily determined by the Government. People shouldn't be allowed to determine where you are or are not allowed to travel outside of people who privately own the property, displayed by having put work into it.

The Government is filled with robbers, murderers, and kidnappers. Whether or not they're Government or not doesn't change that, since what determines whether an action is ethical or not isn't the person taking the action, but the action itself, and otherwise is special pleading. So, when the Government throws handcuffs on someone and locks them in a cage, that's kidnapping. When the Government or its agents shoots and kills someone who hasn't infringed on the rights of someone else, that's murder. When the Government collects taxes, that's robbery and extortion. If you disagree, maybe you should provide an argument as to how I'm wrong instead of pretending that the Government is different from people doing the same thing.

"You're young and these regular people are smart, trust me!" isn't an argument, in fact, you did nothing to address my argument, perhaps you'd like to try again?

 

[rightwinger]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Yes, the greatest form of government ever created

You have something better?

 

[rightwinger]

Only about 15% of countries allow birthright citizenship.
We should abolish it because it is an illegal immigration magnet and the illegal aliens are looting billions from the American taxpayers.

Good luck passing that Constitutional Amendment...because that's what it would take

Nope, the birthright citizenship is not for the offspring of illegal aliens. That is already in the constitution. It just has to start being enforced.

Where in the Constitution?
The courts do not agree with you

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Move to Iran or China. You need some experience in the real world. They are just "imaginary lines drawn by crusty old men."

Then you'll get to experience real "robbers, murderers and kidnappers."

You are naive. I chalk it up to youth and lack of real world experience. They say a conservative is a liberal who once got mugged. I hope you can still LEARN from those "crusty old men." The kooks you've been following have done you a terrible disservice.

China and Iran are both authoritarian. "Open" and "Closed" boarders is a Government policy, I'm arguing that they don't exist, and whether or not people are let "through them" is just arbitrarily determined by the Government. People shouldn't be allowed to determine where you are or are not allowed to travel outside of people who privately own the property, displayed by having put work into it.

The Government is filled with robbers, murderers, and kidnappers. Whether or not they're Government or not doesn't change that, since what determines whether an action is ethical or not isn't the person taking the action, but the action itself, and otherwise is special pleading. So, when the Government throws handcuffs on someone and locks them in a cage, that's kidnapping. When the Government or its agents shoots and kills someone who hasn't infringed on the rights of someone else, that's murder. When the Government collects taxes, that's robbery and extortion. If you disagree, maybe you should provide an argument as to how I'm wrong instead of pretending that the Government is different from people doing the same thing.

"You're young and these regular people are smart, trust me!" isn't an argument, in fact, you did nothing to address my argument, perhaps you'd like to try again?

These people long for what you hold in contempt. I hope eventually you'll come to understand. I can see you dont even understand the purpose of the Constitution. You follow fools.

 

[Norman]

Paper American is as much a real American as a paper airplane is a real airplane.

No citizenship or other deals of any kind should be granted. Birthright should apply only in the special circumstance that the person settled to live in the USA. But since we are full - we can forget about that provision for the next five decades or more.

The dual citizens also... WTF? People who have never even walked on American soil voting in our elections? What is this? It's madness of course.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Move to Iran or China. You need some experience in the real world. They are just "imaginary lines drawn by crusty old men."

Then you'll get to experience real "robbers, murderers and kidnappers."

You are naive. I chalk it up to youth and lack of real world experience. They say a conservative is a liberal who once got mugged. I hope you can still LEARN from those "crusty old men." The kooks you've been following have done you a terrible disservice.

China and Iran are both authoritarian. "Open" and "Closed" boarders is a Government policy, I'm arguing that they don't exist, and whether or not people are let "through them" is just arbitrarily determined by the Government. People shouldn't be allowed to determine where you are or are not allowed to travel outside of people who privately own the property, displayed by having put work into it.

The Government is filled with robbers, murderers, and kidnappers. Whether or not they're Government or not doesn't change that, since what determines whether an action is ethical or not isn't the person taking the action, but the action itself, and otherwise is special pleading. So, when the Government throws handcuffs on someone and locks them in a cage, that's kidnapping. When the Government or its agents shoots and kills someone who hasn't infringed on the rights of someone else, that's murder. When the Government collects taxes, that's robbery and extortion. If you disagree, maybe you should provide an argument as to how I'm wrong instead of pretending that the Government is different from people doing the same thing.

"You're young and these regular people are smart, trust me!" isn't an argument, in fact, you did nothing to address my argument, perhaps you'd like to try again?

These people long for what you hold in contempt. I hope eventually you'll come to understand. I can see you dont even understand the purpose of the Constitution. You follow fools.

The Constitution is meant to instill the sense of implicit consent into the people, so they would believe they've consented to the Government beating, robbing, and murdering them.

No, they were holding hands for "Democracy", that's rule by many. I support rule by none, or in other words, freedom.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Our last hope for Red Flag Laws, you mean?

Our last hope for speech restrictions?

Our last hope for economy-destroying tariffs?

Our last hope to fail to stop the torrent of regulations passing daily?

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place, yeah, the Government continues to work on that. He regularly infringes on our rights just like everyone else in Government.

Then again, the Constitution was never legitimate in the first place, those rights are inherent to ourselves, so there are many others they continue to infringe upon. You put far too much faith in a man that has already proven himself not to work in your interests, and if he did, he wouldn't be there.

I know you're an anarchist, but I'd hoped you havent gone this far.

It sounds like you dont believe nations have a right to borders

Oh, no, you meant our last hope to infringe on people's right to travel from place to place

This is exactly why I reject most of libertarianism and anarchy.

In all political matters and the ideal structure of this nation, I always defer to the wisdom of the Founders.

No, foreigners do not have the "right" to freely move into my country any more than some guy from Central America has the right to to walk into your home.

My hope is that Trump will focus attention on this issue until this this nonsense ends.

You mean, you would have hoped that I wouldn't go so far as to reject invisible lines arbitrarily enforced by robbers, murderers, and kidnappers? Yeah, no, I reject that. Whether someone can travel from location to location shouldn't be left up to someone else, we all own ourselves.

You mean the wisdom of crusty old men, most of whom were on the bank of England's payroll. Well, you're in luck, there were no immigration restrictions until 1882 over 100 years since America's founding. Not that this matters, since all people are just people, and whether some tyrants founded a Government nobody consented to or not doesn't make them suddenly the go-to on a subject.

Your country? Well, if this is your country, why haven't you stopped the Red Flag Laws? Oh, it's because it's not your country, and you actually have no say in what happens to it, you're ruled, and the rulers decide.

Yes, the greatest form of government ever created

You have something better?

I don't really care what the "Greatest Form of Government" is, because NO Government is better. You know, actual freedom.

I also want to point out that you addressed zero points made in my post, so I appreciate you showing that you can't refute it.

 

[dudmuck]

Or at least the clearly WRONG liberal interpretation of the 14th.

Sometimes I think Trump is America's modern day Josiah (look it up libs) -- our last hope.

Trump says administration looking 'seriously' at ending birthright citizenship


.

Thank God, it’s destroying our nation.

It was clearly not the intent when it was ratified. Liberals are using our own Constitution to destroy us.

If it was not the intent, then why did the amendment specifically state ALL PERSONS born on our soil and under the jurisdiction of the State??

And why was it Ratified by all?

You could not be any clearer than ALL PERSONS??

The 14th Amendment birthright citizenship was meant to protect the freed slaves.
It was NEVER meant for the offspring of illegal aliens.
It's being abused.
It's an illegal immigration magnet.
Thank You President Trump!

President Andrew Johnson and three Senators, including Trumbull, the author of the Civil Rights Act, asserted that both the Civil Rights Act[56][57] and the Fourteenth Amendment would confer citizenship to children born to foreign nationals in the United States.[58][59]

Supreme court case law US v. Wong Kim Ark found that citizenship does apply to kids of foreign parents with permanent residence in US.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Supreme court case law US v. Wong Kim Ark found that citizenship does apply to kids of foreign parents with permanent residence in US.

Do you even understand this?

How can I get permanent residency in USA?
Apply for a Green Card
If you are eligible, file Form I-485 - Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status with USCIS, including all supporting documents and fees. USCIS will review your application and schedule an interview with you. Once issued, your Green Card will be valid for 10 years.Mar 7, 2019

 

[longknife]

Trump can't end it himself, it has to be done by Congress and the states. They are the only ones who can enact or delete a Constitutional amendment.

Nobody is changing the amendment. It's simply the way it's administered.

 

[longknife]

President Trump challenges birthright citizenship

And the furor starts.


It all hinges on the 14th Amendment to the constitution.


But, it comes down to how it’s interpreted.

In a interview with Fox News’ Tucker Carlson in July, Michael Anton, a former Trump national security adviser, pointed out:

… "there’s a clause in the middle of the amendment that people ignore or they misinterpret -- subject to the jurisdiction thereof…

"What they are saying is, if you are born on U.S. soil subject to the jurisdiction of the United States -- meaning you’re the child of citizens or the child of legal immigrants, then you are entitled to citizenship. “If you are here illegally, if you owe allegiance to a foreign nation, if you’re the citizen of a foreign country, that clause does not apply to you.”

And it’s something that bothers me to no end. How can an illegal suddenly gain constitutional rights? If they’re not here legally or are citizens, how do our most basic rights serve them?

Speaking to reporters outside the White House on Wednesday, President Trump again threatened to end what he called the "ridiculous" policy of birthright citizenship, which awards citizenship automatically to those born in the United States.

"We're looking at that very seriously," Trump told reporters as he left the White House for Kentucky. "Birthright citizenship, where you have a baby on our land -- you walk over the border, have a baby, congratulations, the baby's now a U.S. citizen. We're looking at it very, very seriously ...It’s, frankly, ridiculous."

The question is; what can he realistically do about it?


More @ https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/08/trump_challenges_birthright_citizenship.html

 

[Lesh]

if you are born on U.S. soil subject to the jurisdiction of the United States

Hey dumbass...it has to do with "where" not "who"

 

[Care4all]

Supreme court case law US v. Wong Kim Ark found that citizenship does apply to kids of foreign parents with permanent residence in US.

Do you even understand this?

How can I get permanent residency in USA?
Apply for a Green Card
If you are eligible, file Form I-485 - Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status with USCIS, including all supporting documents and fees. USCIS will review your application and schedule an interview with you. Once issued, your Green Card will be valid for 10 years.Mar 7, 2019

Nope, that is not what the 14th meant....

It was defined as UNDER the jurisdiction of the State.... ANYONE living here...residing here... as their home.

VISAS did not exist.

 

[dudmuck]

Supreme court case law US v. Wong Kim Ark found that citizenship does apply to kids of foreign parents with permanent residence in US.

Do you even understand this?

How can I get permanent residency in USA?
Apply for a Green Card
If you are eligible, file Form I-485 - Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status with USCIS, including all supporting documents and fees. USCIS will review your application and schedule an interview with you. Once issued, your Green Card will be valid for 10 years.Mar 7, 2019

Nope, that is not what the 14th meant....

It was defined as UNDER the jurisdiction of the State.... ANYONE living here...residing here... as their home.

VISAS did not exist.

Most legal scholars say the Supreme Court settled this debate more than a century ago, holding that "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" refers to anyone present in the U.S., except for the children of diplomats and enemy soldiers (and, at the time, Native Americans). Natives were later in 1924.

(If people who enter illegally aren't subject to our jurisdiction, then they're immune to laws and lawsuits.)

fact check

 

[danielpalos]

Supreme court case law US v. Wong Kim Ark found that citizenship does apply to kids of foreign parents with permanent residence in US.

Do you even understand this?

How can I get permanent residency in USA?
Apply for a Green Card
If you are eligible, file Form I-485 - Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status with USCIS, including all supporting documents and fees. USCIS will review your application and schedule an interview with you. Once issued, your Green Card will be valid for 10 years.Mar 7, 2019

we have a naturalization clause. any foreign national should be able to get a federal id. card for civil access to our Republic.

They could be good for ten years.