CDZ Trump and dissent

[Mac1958]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

 

[Disir]

A question for Trump supporters really but I am happy for non supporters to chime in.

What level of dissent is acceptable and what form should it take ?

This to include press,government agencies and the wider public.

I didn't support Trump. That said, it isn't a question of what level of dissent as much as it is what one is dissenting, why one is dissenting and who is funding it.

Don't get me wrong. If you take great issue with the wrappers on Starburst being permanently stuck on the candy and want to make a great change....whatever. We can do that here in 'Merica with the First amendment and all of that.

I have the right to call people out on it, dismiss it and ridicule it.

There is no free press in the US. NPR (National Propaganda Radio) is not free press. NYT and WaPo are not "free press". CNN, Fox, NBC, ABC are not free press. Mother Jones, Salon etc. are still not "free press". The rules didn't change simply because one side is ticked off. It's propaganda not dissent. If you want to pretend it's dissent have at it.

They can just be ignored, dismissed and ridiculed.

Burn property and throw down? Prosecute that to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Correll]

A question for Trump supporters really but I am happy for non supporters to chime in.

What level of dissent is acceptable and what form should it take ?

This to include press,government agencies and the wider public.

Effectively yes. BUT, if my boss at the furniture store, AG Edwards or wherever does something which really gets me, I have to man up and risk my job.


Government agencies and officials are NOT to take sides against the President. NO dissent is allowable there. All of those people should be fired, and possibly charged.

The Press should NOT take sides and constantly lie and smear half the nation.

Its very difficult to do that. In the UK we had to pass the whistleblowers act to protect those who speak out. I dont think that its entirely effective but it is a step in the right direction.

Here are two different scenarios that are exactly the same.

President is a secret muslim who is financing ISIS in order to grow dissent in the Arab world. - Should someone speak out ?

President is in hock to the Russians and is compromising our allies by passing them secret info -Should someone speak out ?

This isnt a partisan issue, there are limits to the powers of politicians and the limits are those we allow them to get away with.

The cia leaks started MONTHS before the "passing secret info" accusation. YOu are purposefully dodging the truth of the matter.

That the CIA is trying to wrest control of government policy away from the People's elective representative.

FOR ONE EXAMPLE.

 

[Correll]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

Not sure what you mean. We were well aware of the fact that the lefty media and lefties in general felt entitled to dominance and control and would be vicious little fucks if/when challenged.


This is merely a matter of degree to their normal behavior.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Your post is not appropriate for the CDZ.

Telling the truth is inappropriate?

Is there a rule here prohibiting a poster from mentioning the stances another poster takes?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I did not vote for Trump, but I find many of the arguments about dissent to be driven by hysterical partisanship. The same people who viewed dissent as racist for 8 years are now calling it justified and patriotic.

In general, though, the expression of a dissenting opinion is healthy for a democracy. Trying to prevent others from expressing their opinion isn't, even if the bullying is mischaracterized as mere dissent.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Your post is not appropriate for the CDZ.

Telling the truth is inappropriate?

Is there a rule here prohibiting a poster from mentioning the stances another poster takes?

When it is made up yes.

 

[Mac1958]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

Not sure what you mean. We were well aware of the fact that the lefty media and lefties in general felt entitled to dominance and control and would be vicious little fucks if/when challenged.


This is merely a matter of degree to their normal behavior.

If he anticipated this, that's fine - but if they play a role in bringing him down, he will have brought much of it on himself.

The insults, the name-calling, the "the media is the enemy of the people" thing - that may have thrilled his base, but it took their response up at LEAST a notch.

So enjoy the attacks, just understand that he has made them even worse.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

[
When it is made up yes.

It most obviously was not made up at all.

The only reason you think it is inappropriate is because this is a case of truth exposing hypocrisy.

 

[Correll]

Your post is not appropriate for the CDZ.

Telling the truth is inappropriate?

Is there a rule here prohibiting a poster from mentioning the stances another poster takes?

When it is made up yes.

Your dismissal of the Muslim Rape Rings is not something I made up, but something you have done over and over and over again.

THUS your pretense of concern for children is not credible.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A question for Trump supporters really but I am happy for non supporters to chime in.

What level of dissent is acceptable and what form should it take ?

This to include press,government agencies and the wider public.

Effectively yes. BUT, if my boss at the furniture store, AG Edwards or wherever does something which really gets me, I have to man up and risk my job.


Government agencies and officials are NOT to take sides against the President. NO dissent is allowable there. All of those people should be fired, and possibly charged.

The Press should NOT take sides and constantly lie and smear half the nation.

Its very difficult to do that. In the UK we had to pass the whistleblowers act to protect those who speak out. I dont think that its entirely effective but it is a step in the right direction.

Here are two different scenarios that are exactly the same.

President is a secret muslim who is financing ISIS in order to grow dissent in the Arab world. - Should someone speak out ?

President is in hock to the Russians and is compromising our allies by passing them secret info -Should someone speak out ?

This isnt a partisan issue, there are limits to the powers of politicians and the limits are those we allow them to get away with.

The cia leaks started MONTHS before the "passing secret info" accusation. YOu are purposefully dodging the truth of the matter.

That the CIA is trying to wrest control of government policy away from the People's elective representative.

FOR ONE EXAMPLE.

The "secret information" looks to be a part of the Russian thing which has been going on for a while. You seem to be arguing that the CIA is trying to control things by telling u what the government is doing.
Fair enough if you think that is wrong. But you cant have it both ways.It is not a partisan issue and politicians from all sides would get the protection you want for Trump.

That cant be good for democracy.

 

[Correll]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

Not sure what you mean. We were well aware of the fact that the lefty media and lefties in general felt entitled to dominance and control and would be vicious little fucks if/when challenged.


This is merely a matter of degree to their normal behavior.

If he anticipated this, that's fine - but if they play a role in bringing him down, he will have brought much of it on himself.

The insults, the name-calling, the "the media is the enemy of the people" thing - that may have thrilled his base, but it took their response up at LEAST a notch.

So enjoy the attacks, just understand that he has made them even worse.

Allowing your enemy to attack you without any response or attempt at fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

That you want to blame the victim(s) of an attack, for fighting back, is your liberalism warping your perceptions.

This should be noted, though, by all those lefties who insist that you are not a real liberal.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

[
When it is made up yes.

It most obviously was not made up at all.

The only reason you think it is inappropriate is because this is a case of truth exposing hypocrisy.

Well it is made up. I have never excused rape rings of any sort. Please provide the evidence or withdraw your remarks.

 

[Correll]

A question for Trump supporters really but I am happy for non supporters to chime in.

What level of dissent is acceptable and what form should it take ?

This to include press,government agencies and the wider public.

Effectively yes. BUT, if my boss at the furniture store, AG Edwards or wherever does something which really gets me, I have to man up and risk my job.


Government agencies and officials are NOT to take sides against the President. NO dissent is allowable there. All of those people should be fired, and possibly charged.

The Press should NOT take sides and constantly lie and smear half the nation.

Its very difficult to do that. In the UK we had to pass the whistleblowers act to protect those who speak out. I dont think that its entirely effective but it is a step in the right direction.

Here are two different scenarios that are exactly the same.

President is a secret muslim who is financing ISIS in order to grow dissent in the Arab world. - Should someone speak out ?

President is in hock to the Russians and is compromising our allies by passing them secret info -Should someone speak out ?

This isnt a partisan issue, there are limits to the powers of politicians and the limits are those we allow them to get away with.

The cia leaks started MONTHS before the "passing secret info" accusation. YOu are purposefully dodging the truth of the matter.

That the CIA is trying to wrest control of government policy away from the People's elective representative.

FOR ONE EXAMPLE.

The "secret information" looks to be a part of the Russian thing which has been going on for a while. You seem to be arguing that the CIA is trying to control things by telling u what the government is doing.
Fair enough if you think that is wrong. But you cant have it both ways.It is not a partisan issue and politicians from all sides would get the protection you want for Trump.

That cant be good for democracy.

1 Nope. That was not what motivated the leaks, which were well before that.

2. Nope. The Deep State assholes of the CIA think they are smarter and better and thus know what policy should be, even though making policy is NOT their job.

3. I have never supported cia leaks to undermine Obama's policy, nor other Deep State types working against him. I wanted him destroyed by the Truth about himself and his policies. Not sabotage.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

This should be noted, though, by all those lefties who insist that you are not a real liberal.

Mac is not a leftist. He is one of the precious few posters here who IS liberal. The goose stepping leftists here call him names like "RWNJ" and other childish names.

As far as I'm concerned, Trump WAS pointing out the obvious. The press WAS a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC in the last election. I think what Mac was pointing out is that the bellicose way he went about challenging them only increased their determination.

 

[Correll]

This should be noted, though, by all those lefties who insist that you are not a real liberal.

Mac is not a leftist. He is one of the precious few posters here who IS liberal. The goose stepping leftists here call him names like "RWNJ" and other childish names.

As far as I'm concerned, Trump WAS pointing out the obvious. The press WAS a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC in the last election. I think what Mac was pointing out is that the bellicose way he went about challenging them only increased their determination.

Agree, but my point stands.

Letting your enemy attack you constantly without fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

NOw at least, instead of a one sided gauntlet that republicans just try to endure, it is at least a fight.


Probably too little too late, but hey....

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Agree, but my point stands.

Letting your enemy attack you constantly without fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

NOw at least, instead of a one sided gauntlet that republicans just try to endure, it is at least a fight.


Probably too little too late, but hey....

I agree that there is a need to illuminate the role of the press in manufacturing opinion rather than reporting objectively, but challenging this press as directly as he did only resulted in further entrenchment.

 

[Correll]

Agree, but my point stands.

Letting your enemy attack you constantly without fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

NOw at least, instead of a one sided gauntlet that republicans just try to endure, it is at least a fight.


Probably too little too late, but hey....

I agree that there is a need to illuminate the role of the press in manufacturing opinion rather than reporting objectively, but challenging this press as directly as he did only resulted in further entrenchment.

Exactly what do you imagine would do that, without provoking a similar response?

 

[Mac1958]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

Not sure what you mean. We were well aware of the fact that the lefty media and lefties in general felt entitled to dominance and control and would be vicious little fucks if/when challenged.


This is merely a matter of degree to their normal behavior.

If he anticipated this, that's fine - but if they play a role in bringing him down, he will have brought much of it on himself.

The insults, the name-calling, the "the media is the enemy of the people" thing - that may have thrilled his base, but it took their response up at LEAST a notch.

So enjoy the attacks, just understand that he has made them even worse.

Allowing your enemy to attack you without any response or attempt at fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

That you want to blame the victim(s) of an attack, for fighting back, is your liberalism warping your perceptions.

This should be noted, though, by all those lefties who insist that you are not a real liberal.

It's not just the fact that he's attacking them, which is a questionable strategy, it's the intensity and the sheer volume.

Calling them the enemy of the people? I never know when the guy is serious, but that's not a small attack.
.

 

[Correll]

Anything under violence, I reckon, and that won't be needed.

The press is doing their work for them, it's on a mission, and it will only get more intense now.

Trump perpetrated the one sin with the press that is worse than being a Republican: He not only questioned their professionalism and "objectivity", he attacked it. That's the one thing that overrides politics with them. The press has always been convinced that it is the one thing that is above politics, all evidence to the contrary.

Trump and his fans weren't aware of that rule, and it's too late now.
.

Not sure what you mean. We were well aware of the fact that the lefty media and lefties in general felt entitled to dominance and control and would be vicious little fucks if/when challenged.


This is merely a matter of degree to their normal behavior.

If he anticipated this, that's fine - but if they play a role in bringing him down, he will have brought much of it on himself.

The insults, the name-calling, the "the media is the enemy of the people" thing - that may have thrilled his base, but it took their response up at LEAST a notch.

So enjoy the attacks, just understand that he has made them even worse.

Allowing your enemy to attack you without any response or attempt at fighting back, is a sure fire way to lose.

That you want to blame the victim(s) of an attack, for fighting back, is your liberalism warping your perceptions.

This should be noted, though, by all those lefties who insist that you are not a real liberal.

It's not just the fact that he's attacking them, which is a questionable strategy, it's the intensity and the sheer volume.

Calling them the enemy of the people? I never know when the guy is serious, but that's not a small attack.
.

High intensity and high volume is the only possible way to be heard though the filter.

What do you think he should do? Calm rational debate? We've been doing that for generations, while our enemies have been drowning the nation in propaganda.

And we have lost, perhaps irretrievably.