True story about wait times in U.S.

[American Horse]

...
Now, getting back to your numbers. For where you live, you might be right. The private policy I purchased five years ago when I was healthy cost me about $175 per month with a $1000 deductible. However, I was not 63; I was 41, so your numbers seem to be a bit low. And believe me, I looked for the least expensive policy possible. Now, although that policy cost me $175 five years ago, when I moved last year, I was paying $330 per month. So in five years, my premium went up 89%; it almost doubled.

The trouble with your first figures is that they were imputed. Anecdotal figures come closer to reality. But a word of advice for you. The best way to shop for health insurance is to go to one or more COMMERCIAL insurance agencies, and let them know you are shopping. They will represent a number of company's policies, and will have a specialist to go over all the different company's policies making comparisons that even an auditor could benifit from. They will also, since they aren't wedded to any of those companies, know of problems of service by the company as it affects the insured individual.

My figures fit an individual I happen to know very well, and can verify. The amount of government interference in the insurance business, as well as health-care costs in different states yields different prices for both; Healthcare costs in a state also reflect government interference, so they really are one and the same.

But your example of $50,000 per year for two adults contributing to family income fit our state very well for a lower middle class family, which I would class my own. It's not fair to take an example of low earnings like in our state, and then impute costs more appropriate for a state Like N.Y., N.J. or California.

Again, even if you have already made your deal in health insurance, contact a commercial agency. It's not too late to save money going into the future. I know people paying $1,600a year for a liability policy for a very small business who could easily cut that in half by going to a commercial agency rather than a well known big name company where they get their homeowners policy or their automobile policy. They (those two markets) are competing in totally different realms.

I think every citizen (but I know they mostly never will) should spend some time as an independent contractor, where every penny they spend affects their quality of life, and they can see the benifits of shopping well, and knowing where to go and how to evaluate the offerings available to them. Doing that would make them more aware of the taxes they pay, and how they are spent by the government on all levels, township, city, county, state, and federal. Few people understand the costs of things and how to control them as well as a small business person.

 

[xsited1]

Let's do some math here. A married couple who both work in lower paying jobs earn $50,000 per year. They have two children. During their working years, they will earn $2.25 million. They are not poor and definitely do not qualify for Medicaid. Now, the cost for healthcare for this family, over their entire lifetime will come to $1.25 million based on the total cost of $7900 per year per person. So, this family will need to spend over half of their lifetime earnings on healthcare.

These are the real numbers, and they are scary because there are a great many people out there who fall in this category. Even if you up their annual earnings to $60,000 per year, they will still pay over 46% of their lifetime earnings toward healthcare. Medicaid is great for those who are dirt poor, but that really isn't that many people. Those are the people who are on welfare, not the working poor. And the numbers of the working poor are growing. We are slowly becoming a country of haves and have nots as the middle class is being squeezed more and more.

Where did you get $7900 per year per person? We pay only a fraction of that.

This is the average amount spent per person per year in the US currently. You didn't know that? We are currently spending $2.4 trillion on healthcare per year. Divide that by 305 million people and you get $7900 per person per year. This includes all spending on healthcare, insurance premiums, all government programs, and out of pocket expenses. Not everyone pays that much, but that means some are paying much more. And yes, the wealthy pay more than anyone because they help fund Medicare. Someone earning $1 million per year will pay $28,000 per year just to Medicare if those are wages earned.

The biggest question we should be asking ourselve is whether $7900 per year is too much. Does it make sense? Shouldn't we be able to bring that number down some? And where is that number headed? Under the current system, it is estimated to double in the next ten years. By 2020, that number will double to $16,000 per year. Do you think national income is going to double in that time also? The path we are on is unsustainable, and until everyone wakes up and actually wants to find some solutions, nothing is going to change. None of the current proposals addresses rising costs in an effective manner. And because of this, the system is going to collapse.

You can't just divide $2.4 trillion by 305 million. That's not what the average person pays for health insurance.

 

[American Horse]

These are baseless assumptions.

If you are entitled to your own math I'm entitled to mine: Let me use a real life example. Five years ago a 63 year old man – not a preferred customer for health insurance by any means, because of advanced age – by competitive shopping, could get an excellent health insurance policy with a $1,000 deductible for $120. per month. That’s $1,440 per year plus the 1,000 deductible which together equal $2,440 per year. using that high (63 year old man) figure for example and just multiplying it by 2 adults for 47 years (65 at years at age of Medicare, minus 18 years being their age of maturity) and two children for 18 years (or up to the age of maturity) we come up with $229,360 for the two parents and $87,840 for the two children with a combined total equaling $317,200 for their entire period of needing health care and insurance, during which the "family" would be responsible for those costs up to the age of going on Medicare. This combined amount in my looslely based figures is only 25% of your loosely based figures.

In reality this family like many families will go years without any significant medical costs, or they would likely incur costs that would be less than the deductible I used which was $4,000 per year for the family.

It should also be taken into account that a child can be added to an adult’s insurance policy for much less than doubling that cost which I did, and that in the beginning, if that adult had acquired their insurance at the earliest possible age, at age 18, their rates should be much less than for an adult male, aged 63 in 2004.

BTW your $50,000 for two adults working would fit fairly accurately the state of my 63 year old man's residence and in which he purchased his health insurance policy.

Where in the hell do you get 120 a month for a 63 year old man with a 1000. ded.??

Your figures are bullshit.

Your comment shows that you either don't pay attention, that you buy without shopping, or that you are just rude out of habit; probably all three apply. Please take another look at the age, and the time frame in my post.

 

[auditor0007]

...
Now, getting back to your numbers. For where you live, you might be right. The private policy I purchased five years ago when I was healthy cost me about $175 per month with a $1000 deductible. However, I was not 63; I was 41, so your numbers seem to be a bit low. And believe me, I looked for the least expensive policy possible. Now, although that policy cost me $175 five years ago, when I moved last year, I was paying $330 per month. So in five years, my premium went up 89%; it almost doubled.

The trouble with your first figures is that they were imputed. Anecdotal figures come closer to reality. But a word of advice for you. The best way to shop for health insurance is to go to one or more COMMERCIAL insurance agencies, and let them know you are shopping. They will represent a number of company's policies, and will have a specialist to go over all the different company's policies making comparisons that even an auditor could benifit from. They will also, since they aren't wedded to any of those companies, know of problems of service by the company as it affects the insured individual.

My figures fit an individual I happen to know very well, and can verify. The amount of government interference in the insurance business, as well as health-care costs in different states yields different prices for both; Healthcare costs in a state also reflect government interference, so they really are one and the same.

But your example of $50,000 per year for two adults contributing to family income fit our state very well for a lower middle class family, which I would class my own. It's not fair to take an example of low earnings like in our state, and then impute costs more appropriate for a state Like N.Y., N.J. or California.

Again, even if you have already made your deal in health insurance, contact a commercial agency. It's not too late to save money going into the future. I know people paying $1,600a year for a liability policy for a very small business who could easily cut that in half by going to a commercial agency rather than a well known big name company where they get their homeowners policy or their automobile policy. They (those two markets) are competing in totally different realms.

I think every citizen (but I know they mostly never will) should spend some time as an independent contractor, where every penny they spend affects their quality of life, and they can see the benifits of shopping well, and knowing where to go and how to evaluate the offerings available to them. Doing that would make them more aware of the taxes they pay, and how they are spent by the government on all levels, township, city, county, state, and federal. Few people understand the costs of things and how to control them as well as a small business person.

Personally, I can't shop for insurance. I have a pre=existing condition. In Ohio, the only insurance available is guaranteed issue which is not subsidized in any way. The rates I quoted are the best there are. My total healthcare costs would be over $14,000 per year just for myself. So I am without insurance. I just have to hope that I don't have any major problems for the next 19 years. In the meantime, I'll pay the $3000 to $5000 out of pocket for the care I do need. Or maybe I'll be lucky enough to find a part-time job where I can get insurance at a reasonable price.

 

[Truthmatters]

How much does a Drs degree cost in the US?

How much cost is added when you then specialize in a field of medicine?

The cause of this is the cost of higher education in this country.

One more thing that was completely ignored under an entirely Republican government for YEARS.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

How much does a Drs degree cost in the US?

How much cost is added when you then specialize in a field of medicine?

The cause of this is the cost of higher education in this country.

One more thing that was completely ignored under an entirely Republican government for YEARS.

psst...truth does matter....repubs haven't been in total control except for 2001-2006.

Just saying look at who controlled congress after 2006 and look who controlled the presidency prior to 2000.

 

[wvpeach]

American Horse

I am a business woman with a health and life insurance license in escrow.

No way can a person in their 40's 50's most certainly not in their 60's get a health insurance policy for $120 a month. It's not possible.

So either your man lied to us or your lying to us.

Now that said he might be able to buy one of those discount programs for that amount they advertise on TV . First they came out for dental and vision and now I see them being pushed for health insurance. All those amount to is a network of doctors that agree to give patients a discount for office visits. Normally amounts to about 20% discount.

I noticed they are trying to get hospitals on board too.

Doesn't really matter. For all intents and purposes they are a rip off . Especially in rural communities where they haven't bothered to work on signing up medical providers yet. Those programs will never really amount to anything and if you really get sick watch the hospital laugh at you when you try to present their discount card for payment .

 

[wvpeach]

How much does a Drs degree cost in the US?

How much cost is added when you then specialize in a field of medicine?

The cause of this is the cost of higher education in this country.

One more thing that was completely ignored under an entirely Republican government for YEARS.

psst...truth does matter....repubs haven't been in total control except for 2001-2006.

Just saying look at who controlled congress after 2006 and look who controlled the presidency prior to 2000.

Lets see who has been in control since the 80's ?

Ronald Reagan for 8 years with a Republican congress and senate.
Then George Bush senior for 4 years pretty much a Republican congress and senate
Then Bill Clinton with newt Gingrich and a Republican controlled congress and senate.
Then George Bush Jr. With a completely republican controlled congress and senate for 6 years and after 2006 such a narrow majority for the Democrats Bush vetoed everything they tried to do.

So Pilgrim who has been in control of government for the last 20 years?

With the exception of old blow Job Clinton who was just a figure head the answer would be Republicans.

Geez you right wingers .

Makes me wonder how many of you even finished high school. Either that or you have pretty selective memories.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

From the class and character of your post I'd say you're still in high school. Now that I got the lameness out of the way.......

In the last 20 years...lets see

89-92 republican controlled executive branch and a small republican majority in congress
92-00 Democrat controlled executive branch and a small majority of republicans controlling congress.
00-06 Republican controlled executive branch and a larger majority (still not a veto/filibuster proof one) in congress
06-08 Republican controlled executive branch and democratically controlled congress
08-09 Democrat controlled executive branch and a super majority controlling congress (IE they don't need any republican votes to pass anything now, unlike the republicans in the 18 years prior who needed SOME democrat support to pass bills)


Again just the facts, no need for insults, spin, or partisan hackery.

 

[Truthmatters]

How much does a Drs degree cost in the US?

How much cost is added when you then specialize in a field of medicine?

The cause of this is the cost of higher education in this country.

One more thing that was completely ignored under an entirely Republican government for YEARS.

psst...truth does matter....repubs haven't been in total control except for 2001-2006.

Just saying look at who controlled congress after 2006 and look who controlled the presidency prior to 2000.

Lets see who has been in control since the 80's ?

Ronald Reagan for 8 years with a Republican congress and senate.
Then George Bush senior for 4 years pretty much a Republican congress and senate
Then Bill Clinton with newt Gingrich and a Republican controlled congress and senate.
Then George Bush Jr. With a completely republican controlled congress and senate for 6 years and after 2006 such a narrow majority for the Democrats Bush vetoed everything they tried to do.

So Pilgrim who has been in control of government for the last 20 years?

With the exception of old blow Job Clinton who was just a figure head the answer would be Republicans.

Geez you right wingers .

Makes me wonder how many of you even finished high school. Either that or you have pretty selective memories.

Under Bush the cost of a college education skyrocketed and the Republicans who controled EVERYTHING did nothing to amelirate the situation.

Now go check the facts my friend

 

[Truthmatters]

The New York Times > Education > Image > Soaring College Tuitions

He has kinda avoided this thread since this chart of college costs showed up to prove him wrong anyway.

They skyrocketed under Bush and they did NOTHING to stop it.

 

[KittenKoder]

It shouldn't surprise you veritas. I find that most of the right wing nut cases who vote against all social programs are either on social security disability, VA disability or plain criminals who work construction under the table and never pay any taxes.

Yet they rant and rave against any social program and worse yet vote Republican. Kinda of like biting your nose off to spite your face.

When you ask a few of these people in person. ( which I have gotten to do while working the campaign trail) ask them in person: Sir or madame you just told me your on social security disability yet you plan to vote Republican? You do know that most republicans have said they would like to end social security and medicare and medicaid all together. .................... They will look at you and with a straight face say : oh they don't mean me. They mean the bums that don't deserve it.

LOL.................... These kind of people seem to live in a world where reality and facts touch them very little.

That is why I say to hell with them. After 8 years of that horrific Bush the country should have learned to ignore these people. Onward and upward and we need to keep registering voters every election. Until we finally can call that Republican , conservative , libertarian batch so marginal they are just a faint memory of our past.

Damn what a good post.

I know some of these folks too. Living off the government dole, sitting on their fat ass all day, pounding their fingers on the internet 24/7 -- yet screaming about how people are lazy (read: Dems, not THEM of course! lol) and sucking off the government teet.

And they vote republican. Makes not a whit of sense, except to say they are some of the biggest hypocrites known to man.

Here's the problem, social programs take money away from programs that actually offer a chance to get out of said situation. Money has to come from somewhere, and Republicans tend to put more into education and training programs, while Democrats tend to put more into handouts. Social Security and Vet benefits are not living on the government, one you loan to the government, the other you earn. There are a lot of welfare programs that are though, like TANF and such, where you don't pay into and not everyone qualifies for, those are living on the government. Learn about your programs before you try this again.

 

[Truthmatters]

tell us all about the money Rs give education please?

 

[wvpeach]

It shouldn't surprise you veritas. I find that most of the right wing nut cases who vote against all social programs are either on social security disability, VA disability or plain criminals who work construction under the table and never pay any taxes.

Yet they rant and rave against any social program and worse yet vote Republican. Kinda of like biting your nose off to spite your face.

When you ask a few of these people in person. ( which I have gotten to do while working the campaign trail) ask them in person: Sir or madame you just told me your on social security disability yet you plan to vote Republican? You do know that most republicans have said they would like to end social security and medicare and medicaid all together. .................... They will look at you and with a straight face say : oh they don't mean me. They mean the bums that don't deserve it.

LOL.................... These kind of people seem to live in a world where reality and facts touch them very little.

That is why I say to hell with them. After 8 years of that horrific Bush the country should have learned to ignore these people. Onward and upward and we need to keep registering voters every election. Until we finally can call that Republican , conservative , libertarian batch so marginal they are just a faint memory of our past.

Damn what a good post.

I know some of these folks too. Living off the government dole, sitting on their fat ass all day, pounding their fingers on the internet 24/7 -- yet screaming about how people are lazy (read: Dems, not THEM of course! lol) and sucking off the government teet.

And they vote republican. Makes not a whit of sense, except to say they are some of the biggest hypocrites known to man.

Here's the problem, social programs take money away from programs that actually offer a chance to get out of said situation. Money has to come from somewhere, and Republicans tend to put more into education and training programs, while Democrats tend to put more into handouts. Social Security and Vet benefits are not living on the government, one you loan to the government, the other you earn. There are a lot of welfare programs that are though, like TANF and such, where you don't pay into and not everyone qualifies for, those are living on the government. Learn about your programs before you try this again.

What ?

You've got to be kidding?

You have heard of welfare reform haven't you?

And the Republicans put money into education and training?
That is complete lie , unless you count military training.

I think you need to learn a bit more about programs before you make yourself look silly again because you have it all mixed up.

 

[Truthmatters]

note no answer forthcoming from KK

 

[wvpeach]

From the class and character of your post I'd say you're still in high school. Now that I got the lameness out of the way.......

In the last 20 years...lets see

89-92 republican controlled executive branch and a small republican majority in congress
92-00 Democrat controlled executive branch and a small majority of republicans controlling congress.
00-06 Republican controlled executive branch and a larger majority (still not a veto/filibuster proof one) in congress
06-08 Republican controlled executive branch and democratically controlled congress
08-09 Democrat controlled executive branch and a super majority controlling congress (IE they don't need any republican votes to pass anything now, unlike the republicans in the 18 years prior who needed SOME democrat support to pass bills)


Again just the facts, no need for insults, spin, or partisan hackery.

Nope I am a 52 year old business woman with three grown kids and a husband.
That aside.

yep you got it pilgrim .

Thank you for validating what I said.

Course you tried to put your own right wing spin on the facts.
But still you pretty much stuck to the facts.

The fact is the Republicans have been in control of our government for all but 2 years of the last 20.

Presidents don't write or pass bills you know.

They just sign them or veto them.

 

[KittenKoder]

Unlike those without a life in reality, I have other things I do ... so TruthDoesn'tMatter, perhaps you should find more than just posting on forums if you expect an answer that quickly.

Politicians are not good examples of anything, they lie (like TruthDoesn'tMatter) and simply do not listen to those who voted them in. Republican supporters would rather have training, yes, what their politicians do, just like Democrat ones, is not what they promise.

 

[wvpeach]

KK are you speaking pig latin?

Or was that supposed to be English?

 

[KittenKoder]

KK are you speaking pig latin?

Or was that supposed to be English?

Are you capable of seeing the difference between supporters and politicians? Hint: Politicians lie, like Obama did, like Bush did (he just got caught sooner), to get into office.

 

[Truthmatters]

Unlike those without a life in reality, I have other things I do ... so TruthDoesn'tMatter, perhaps you should find more than just posting on forums if you expect an answer that quickly.

Politicians are not good examples of anything, they lie (like TruthDoesn'tMatter) and simply do not listen to those who voted them in. Republican supporters would rather have training, yes, what their politicians do, just like Democrat ones, is not what they promise.

You never produced the claimed proof of support By Rs for education.

You sure seem to side with Rs all the time for someone who claims they are a democrat.

Why dont you do us all a favor and be honest and switch to the R party.