Troops Deserve More Than Bumper Sticker Support

[82Marine89]

For this Veterans Day weekend I decided to read “Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10.” The story is about four U.S. Navy SEALs whose June 2005 mission in northern Afghanistan “was to capture or kill a notorious al Qaeda leader known to be ensconced in a Taliban stronghold surrounded by a small but heavily armed force. Less than 24 hours later, only one of those Navy SEALs remained alive,” Marcus Luttrell.

This book is Luttrell’s first-person account of that tragic day, “the largest loss of life in Navy SEAL history.” All thanks to asinine rules of engagement our military personnel are forced to fight under. I couldn’t possibly explain this intolerable situation better or with more moral authority than Leading Petty Officer Marcus Luttrell himself, so consider the following taken directly from the first chapter of his book:

“Looking back, during our long journey in the C-130 to Afghanistan, I was more acutely aware of a growing program which faces U.S. forces on active duty in theaters of war all over the world. For me, it began in Iraq, the first murmurings from the liberal part of the U.S.A. that we were somehow in the wrong; brutal killers, bullying other countries; that we who put our lives on the line for our nation at the behest of our government should somehow be charged with murder for shooting our enemy.

“It’s been an insidious progression, the criticisms of the U.S. Armed Forces from politicians and from the liberal media, which knows nothing of combat, nothing of our training, and nothing of the mortal dangers we face out there on the front line. Each of the six of us in that aircraft en route to Afghanistan had constantly in the back of our minds the ever-intrusive rules of engagement.

“These are drawn up for us to follow by some politician sitting in some distant committee room in Washington, D.C. And that’s a very long way from the battlefield where a sniper’s bullet can blast your head, where the slightest mistake can cost your life, where you need to kill your enemy before he kills you.

“And those ROE are very specific: we may not open fire until we are fired upon or have positively identified our enemy and have proof of his intentions. Now, that’s all very gallant. But how about…when a bunch of guys wearing colored towels around their heads and brandishing AK-47s come charging over the horizon straight toward you? Do you wait for them to start killing your team, or do you mow the bastards down before they get a chance to do so?

“That situation might look simple in Washington, where the human rights of terrorists are often given high priority. And I am certain liberal politicians would defend their position to the death. Because everybody knows liberals have never been wrong about anything. You can ask them. Anytime.

“However, from the standpoint of the U.S. soldier, Ranger, SEAL, Green Beret, or whatever, those ROE represent a very serious conundrum. We understand we must obey them because they happen to come under the laws of the country we are sworn to serve. But they represent a danger to us; they undermine our confidence on the battlefield in the fight against world terror. Worse yet, they make us concerned, disheartened, and sometimes hesitant.

“I can say from first-hand experience that those rules of engagement cost the lives of three of the finest U.S. Navy SEALs who have ever served. I’m not saying that given the serious situation, those elite American warriors might not have died a little later; but they would not have died right then, and in my view would almost certainly have been alive today.

“I am hopeful that one day soon, the U.S. government will learn that we can be trusted. We know about bad guys, what they do, and, often, who they are. The politicians have chosen to send us into battle, and that’s our trade. We do what’s necessary. And in my view, once those politicians have elected to send us out to do what 99.9 percent of the country would be terrified to undertake, they should get the hell out of the way and stay there.

“…I realize I am not being specific, and I have no intention of being so. But these broad brushstrokes are designed to show that the rules of engagement are a clear and present danger, frightening young soldiers, who have been placed in harm’s way by their government, into believing they may be charged with murder if they defend themselves too vigorously. . . . I simply do not want to see some of the best young men in the country hesitating to join the elite branches of the U.S. Armed Services because they’re afraid they might be accused of war crimes by their own side, just for attacking the enemy.

“And I know one thing for certain. If I ever rounded a mountainside in Afghanistan and came face to face with Osama bin Laden, the man who masterminded the vicious, unprovoked attack on my country, killing 2,572 innocent American civilians in New York on 9/11, I’d shoot him dead, in cold blood. At which point, urged on by an outraged American media, the military would probably incarcerate me UNDER the jail, never mind IN it. And then I’d be charged with murder.

“Tell you what. I’d still shoot the sonofabitch.”

This Veterans Day, let’s commit to doing more than just slapping an “I Support the Troops” bumper sticker on our car or tying a yellow ribbon ‘round the old oak tree. Let’s commit to fighting to give men like Marcus Luttrell the freedom, authority and confidence they need to do the job they’ve been trained to do and we’ve asked them to do. Supporting the troops doesn’t mean bringing them home while the threat to our nation and our citizens still exists. It means letting them win. It means letting them kick (expletive) and take names. It means pinning a medal on their chest for killing a bad guy, not pinning a murder rap on them.

And it means extending a heartfelt “Thank You!” to each and every veteran you come across this Veterans Day. They’ve earned it. And then some.


click the link for Muth's Truth's

 

[Diuretic]

From the extract of the book it appears to be a load of self-serving tosh. If someone in the military doesn't like following orders then either don't join or get out. The permanent truth is that the military is there to follow the instructions of its political masters. Any civilian government that doesn't keep its military under the tightest of controls and fail to deal firmly and expeditiously with any rejection of those controls is a government that is riding the tiget's back.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

From the extract of the book it appears to be a load of self-serving tosh. If someone in the military doesn't like following orders then either don't join or get out. The permanent truth is that the military is there to follow the instructions of its political masters. Any civilian government that doesn't keep its military under the tightest of controls and fail to deal firmly and expeditiously with any rejection of those controls is a government that is riding the tiget's back.

Yes of course, rules that require you to be fired on before firing are of course just peachy keen when some lawyer draws them up for some politician that has only the risk of the car ride to and from the meeting. Ignorant pap from you not withstanding.

 

[CSM]

From the extract of the book it appears to be a load of self-serving tosh. If someone in the military doesn't like following orders then either don't join or get out. The permanent truth is that the military is there to follow the instructions of its political masters. Any civilian government that doesn't keep its military under the tightest of controls and fail to deal firmly and expeditiously with any rejection of those controls is a government that is riding the tiget's back.

Seems to me that it is not quite that cut and dried. If it were, then "I was only following orders!" would be a valid defense in any war crimes trial. We alll know how that flies!

 

[actsnoblemartin]

they deserve everything possible, to have an easy life after service.

For this Veterans Day weekend I decided to read “Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10.” The story is about four U.S. Navy SEALs whose June 2005 mission in northern Afghanistan “was to capture or kill a notorious al Qaeda leader known to be ensconced in a Taliban stronghold surrounded by a small but heavily armed force. Less than 24 hours later, only one of those Navy SEALs remained alive,” Marcus Luttrell.

This book is Luttrell’s first-person account of that tragic day, “the largest loss of life in Navy SEAL history.” All thanks to asinine rules of engagement our military personnel are forced to fight under. I couldn’t possibly explain this intolerable situation better or with more moral authority than Leading Petty Officer Marcus Luttrell himself, so consider the following taken directly from the first chapter of his book:



This Veterans Day, let’s commit to doing more than just slapping an “I Support the Troops” bumper sticker on our car or tying a yellow ribbon ‘round the old oak tree. Let’s commit to fighting to give men like Marcus Luttrell the freedom, authority and confidence they need to do the job they’ve been trained to do and we’ve asked them to do. Supporting the troops doesn’t mean bringing them home while the threat to our nation and our citizens still exists. It means letting them win. It means letting them kick (expletive) and take names. It means pinning a medal on their chest for killing a bad guy, not pinning a murder rap on them.

And it means extending a heartfelt “Thank You!” to each and every veteran you come across this Veterans Day. They’ve earned it. And then some.


click the link for Muth's Truth's

 

[DanChisholm]

My roommates and I were talking about this yesterday. I think it's horrible that people always want to give a parade and then forget about the veterans. We should be doing everything we can to make sure veterans can get jobs. In this country, 25% of ALL homeless people are veterans. This atrocity should never occur in a country supposedly as great as the United States of America.

 

[Alpha1]

Even worse...some little pricks like Diuretic, wouldn't even bother with the parade...

 

[Diuretic]

Yes of course, rules that require you to be fired on before firing are of course just peachy keen when some lawyer draws them up for some politician that has only the risk of the car ride to and from the meeting. Ignorant pap from you not withstanding.

If you don't like the rules you can do one of two things.

1. Get them changed.
2. Quit.

As far as I know there's no option that says you can disobey them because you don't like them. Any rules that didn't allow for self-defence would be deficient in any case.

 

[Diuretic]

Seems to me that it is not quite that cut and dried. If it were, then "I was only following orders!" would be a valid defense in any war crimes trial. We alll know how that flies!

True enough, superior orders always fails as a defence in criminal trials.

 

[Diuretic]

they deserve everything possible, to have an easy life after service.

They deserve that and more.

 

[Diuretic]

Even worse...some little pricks like Diuretic, wouldn't even bother with the parade...

Ready when you are chief, if you want to go a couple of rounds just ask.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

good man diuretic. you are exactly right.

they shouldnt even have to ask, they should be sought and helped.

They deserve that and more.

 

[Foxfyre]

This Veterans Day, let’s commit to doing more than just slapping an “I Support the Troops” bumper sticker on our car or tying a yellow ribbon ‘round the old oak tree. Let’s commit to fighting to give men like Marcus Luttrell the freedom, authority and confidence they need to do the job they’ve been trained to do and we’ve asked them to do. Supporting the troops doesn’t mean bringing them home while the threat to our nation and our citizens still exists. It means letting them win. It means letting them kick (expletive) and take names. It means pinning a medal on their chest for killing a bad guy, not pinning a murder rap on them.

And it means extending a heartfelt “Thank You!” to each and every veteran you come across this Veterans Day. They’ve earned it. And then some.

I can only say kudos for this post. Those who trot out the rare and excessively publicized incidents of genuine military misconduct as evidence of U.S. savagery, aggression, or worse are far more likely to be fostering their own anti-American agenda than is Marcus Luttrell pushing a personal agenda.

War is a hideous, unconscionable, savage but sometimes necessary undertaking in which many unintended, even unnecessary tragedies will occur. The purpose of war is always to kill the enemy and destroy his means to conduct war. Invariably the innocent will at times be caught in the crossfire. And once the enemy is crushed and rendered incapable of making war, we have invariably helped rebuild the nation it was necessary to decimate to accomplish the goal.

We will only prolong war and give aid, comfort, and encouragement to the enemy, however, when we force our military to second guess every decision, when we require them to put their own lives at risk more than they put the lives of the enemy at risk, when we accuse them of bad judgment in a situation in which a scant split second is available to make a decision.

So yes, encouragement, heartfelt thanks, appreciation, and a helping hand as needed are all appropriate where our troops are concerned. They put their lives on the line for a worthy purpose. The very least they are entitled to is permission to do their jobs and benefit of the doubt in how it may be necessary to do them.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

the o.p. is one of the finest on this board, even though he is a newbie. I know his work from other boards.

 

[maineman]

I think that any parent, spouse or child of any serviceman killed in the line of duty should be exempt from paying income tax for the rest of their lives.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I would support that.

I think that any parent, spouse or child of any serviceman killed in the line of duty should be exempt from paying income tax for the rest of their lives.

 

[Annie]

Here's a very good cause:

http://soldiersangels.org/index.php?page=about-project-valour-it

 

[Psychoblues]

You kittens can fool each other but you're not going to fool me. I am a life member of the VFW and the DAV.

When did you last drive a vet to a VA hospital or any where else? When did you last encourage a vet to register to vote? When did you last take a fallen veterans child in your arms and promise that you would always be there for them?

I'm not about to recognise the ambitions of one that has never as much nominally admitted that the WAR IN IRAQ is militarilly ill conceived and entirely a political failure.

Yes, our Veterans and Troops deserve much more than bumper stickers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You kittens can fool each other but you're not going to fool me. I am a life member of the VFW and the DAV.

When did you last drive a vet to a VA hospital or any where else? When did you last encourage a vet to register to vote? When did you last take a fallen veterans child in your arms and promise that you would always be there for them?

I'm not about to recognise the ambitions of one that has never as much nominally admitted that the WAR IN IRAQ is militarilly ill conceived and entirely a political failure.

Yes, our Veterans and Troops deserve much more than bumper stickers.

So after serving in ww2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm and Somalia you find time in your ancient life to do all these things? I am a Life member of DAV. If I were not sick I would drive for them, nearest VA Hospital is little over 90 miles away.

As for taking the children of fallen service members in my arms, exactly how do you know who they are? Do you run an outreach program for them? What military Installation are you near? How do you get these widows and their children to come see you? Further since most widows leave the base and return to families elsewhere in the country how do you make good on your personal pledge to always be there for them?

Just curious.

 

[Foxfyre]

So after serving in ww2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm and Somalia you find time in your ancient life to do all these things? I am a Life member of DAV. If I were not sick I would drive for them, nearest VA Hospital is little over 90 miles away.

As for taking the children of fallen service members in my arms, exactly how do you know who they are? Do you run an outreach program for them? What military Installation are you near? How do you get these widows and their children to come see you? Further since most widows leave the base and return to families elsewhere in the country how do you make good on your personal pledge to always be there for them?

Just curious.

A reasonable point of view. Coming from a military family, having family in the military and at least one loved one in every conflict at least going back to the Civil War, as well as friends and family serving now, I maybe have more interest than those not so intimately involved. But in matters of charity and support, all of us can only do what we are in a position to do. Some may indeed have time, resources, and opportunity to drive a Vet to the hospital or do hands on work with orphaned children or other worthy endeavors. Others serve by writing cards and letters, sending contributions, and speaking out. That bumper sticker may be something that costs us little to do and of course by itself is grossly insufficient. But but it is not nothing either.

Also the world is full of needs, and it is not realistic to think that it is possible or wise that everybody devote all their available time and resources to one worthy cause, even if that cause is supporting our brave men and women who have and are serving in the military.

I do think we owe our military much more respect, appreciation, and help than what they get from many Americans.