Trivia time: are classical and modern liberals similar?

[Liberty]

*Jeopardy theme plays*

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals in the 18th century looked at their society and determined what they could do to make it better
Liberals of today look at society and determine what they can do to make it better

Conservatives resist them

 

[Liberty]

LOL, no one else knows? That's fucking sad.

 

[Oddball]

100% different.

18th century liberals overthrew tyrants.

Today's "liberals" are all good with tyranny, as long as they're the ramrods.

 

[boedicca]

The Poll is improperly worded.

To be truly Jeopardy-ized, it should read:


Answer: 100% Different

- How does rdean differ from other insane moonbats?
- How different are classical vs. modern liberals?
- How similar are Barack Obama and Richard Nixon?

and so on in a similar vein.

 

[Sallow]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

To help..

lib·er·al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA

–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun
14. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in politics or religion.
15. ( often initial capital letter ) a member of a liberal party in politics, especially of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

And Conservative

con·serv·a·tive   /kənˈsɜrvətɪv/ Show Spelled
[kuhn-sur-vuh-tiv] Show IPA

–adjective
1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
2. cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate.
3. traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness: conservative suit.
4. ( often initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to the Conservative party.
5. ( initial capital letter ) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Conservative Jews or Conservative judaism.
6. having the power or tendency to conserve; preservative.
7. Mathematics . (of a vector or vector function) having curl equal to zero; irrotational; lamellar.
–noun
8. a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc.
9. a supporter of conservative political policies.
10. ( initial capital letter ) a member of a conservative political party, especially the Conservative party in Great Britain.
11. a preservative.
Conservative | Define Conservative at Dictionary.com

Conservatives seek to preserve the traditional order. Conservatives love a powerful government dominated by leaders that are chosen by "divinity" or force. These sorts of governments include Monarchy, Aristocracy, Dictatorship, Theocracy and Plutocracy.

Liberals on the other hand favor government that are inclusive of the governed. Like in Democracy or Representative governments like Republics.

 

[Liberty]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

To help..

lib·er·al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA

–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun
14. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in politics or religion.
15. ( often initial capital letter ) a member of a liberal party in politics, especially of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

And Conservative

con·serv·a·tive   /kənˈsɜrvətɪv/ Show Spelled
[kuhn-sur-vuh-tiv] Show IPA

–adjective
1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
2. cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate.
3. traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness: conservative suit.
4. ( often initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to the Conservative party.
5. ( initial capital letter ) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Conservative Jews or Conservative judaism.
6. having the power or tendency to conserve; preservative.
7. Mathematics . (of a vector or vector function) having curl equal to zero; irrotational; lamellar.
–noun
8. a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc.
9. a supporter of conservative political policies.
10. ( initial capital letter ) a member of a conservative political party, especially the Conservative party in Great Britain.
11. a preservative.
Conservative | Define Conservative at Dictionary.com

Conservatives seek to preserve the traditional order. Conservatives love a powerful government dominated by leaders that are chosen by "divinity" or force. These sorts of governments include Monarchy, Aristocracy, Dictatorship, Theocracy and Plutocracy.

Liberals on the other hand favor government that are inclusive of the governed. Like in Democracy or Representative governments like Republics.

liberals = circumvent constitution
conservative = follow constitution

that's the modern definition. Deal with it.

 

[Oddball]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

Total lie...But to be expected from the socialist stooges who've hijacked the term liberal, in order to hide their true authoritarian proclivities.

The term classical liberalism was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier nineteenth-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism.[6] The phrase classical liberalism is also sometimes used to refer to all forms of liberalism before the twentieth century, and some conservatives and libertarians use the term classical liberalism to describe their belief in the primacy of economic freedom and minimal government.

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Liberty]

Sallow...do you want to know the true nature of liberalism written by the man who defined it in the mid 17th century?

Read this, it is free.
Two treatises on government - Google Books

After reading it, explain to me how any of that relates with modern liberalism. I will wait.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

To help..

lib·er·al   /ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/ Show Spelled
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA

–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.
–noun
14. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in politics or religion.
15. ( often initial capital letter ) a member of a liberal party in politics, especially of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

And Conservative



Conservatives seek to preserve the traditional order. Conservatives love a powerful government dominated by leaders that are chosen by "divinity" or force. These sorts of governments include Monarchy, Aristocracy, Dictatorship, Theocracy and Plutocracy.

Liberals on the other hand favor government that are inclusive of the governed. Like in Democracy or Representative governments like Republics.

liberals = circumvent constitution
conservative = follow constitution

that's the modern definition. Deal with it.

LMAO. Whose "modern", you? I suggest another source, modern referenced is a partisan hack.

 

[Sallow]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

Total lie...But to be expected from the socialist stooges who've hijacked the term liberal, in order to hide their true authoritarian proclivities.

The term classical liberalism was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier nineteenth-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism.[6] The phrase classical liberalism is also sometimes used to refer to all forms of liberalism before the twentieth century, and some conservatives and libertarians use the term classical liberalism to describe their belief in the primacy of economic freedom and minimal government.

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And?

There is no such thing as "Classical" Liberalism. It's a made up term by Conservatives. Liberals do not stay in a particular mindset..or advocate for Tradition.

 

[Liberty]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

Total lie...But to be expected from the socialist stooges who've hijacked the term liberal, in order to hide their true authoritarian proclivities.

The term classical liberalism was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier nineteenth-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism.[6] The phrase classical liberalism is also sometimes used to refer to all forms of liberalism before the twentieth century, and some conservatives and libertarians use the term classical liberalism to describe their belief in the primacy of economic freedom and minimal government.

Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And?

There is no such thing as "Classical" Liberalism. It's a made up term by Conservatives. Liberals do not stay in a particular mindset..or advocate for Tradition.

really? John Locke, the man who invented "liberal" in the mid 17th century would like a word with you.
Two treatises on government - Google Books

 

[Sallow]

Sallow...do you want to know the true nature of liberalism written by the man who defined it in the mid 17th century?

Read this, it is free.
Two treatises on government - Google Books

After reading it, explain to me how any of that relates with modern liberalism. I will wait.

We've been through this. Locke advocated for limited wealth accumulation. You balked on that whole notion.

You've got a very short memory.

 

[Oddball]

It had to be "made up" because socialist tools in the Democrat Party like you stole the term "liberal" back in the 1920s.

This is a true historical fact.

Try reading for comprehension some time.

 

[California Girl]

It had to be "made up" because socialist tools in the Democrat Party like you stole the term "liberal" back in the 1920s.

This is a true historical fact.

Try reading for comprehension some time.

Only because their true ideology was a dirty word back then. They've now convinced themselves they're liberal.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberals in the 18th century looked at their society and determined what they could do to make it better
Liberals of today look at society and determine what they can do to make it better

Conservatives resist them

1. Unlike classical liberalism, which saw government as a necessary evil, of simply a benign but voluntary social contract for free men to enter into willingly, today's 'modern liberals' live with the belief that the entire society was one organic whole left no room for those who didn’t want to behave, let alone ‘evolve.’ Thus progressive reformers saw the home as the front line in the war to transform men into compliant social organs.
a. One answer was to get children out of the home as quickly as possible, so that the home could no longer be an island, separate and sovereign from the rest of society.
b. John Dewey helped create kindergartens to help shape children for the new ‘society.’
c. This can be seen in Woodrow Wilson’s speech as president of Princeton: “Our problem is not merely to help students to adjust to themselves to world life…[but] to make them as unlike their fathers as we can.” (Michael McGerr, “A Fierce Discontent: The Rise and Fall of the Progressive Movement in America, 1870-1920,” p. 111

2.Classical liberalism
a. “The American intellectual class from the mid 19th century onward has disliked liberalism (which originally referred to individualism, private property, and limits on power) precisely because the liberal society has no overarching goal.” War Is the Health of the State

b. Wilson and the Progressives tried to make war socialism permanent, but the voters didn’t agree. They (Progressives) began to agree more and more with Bismarckian top-down socialism, and looked to Russia and Italy where ‘men of action’ were creating utopias. Also, John Dewey renamed Progressivism as ‘liberalism,’ which had referred to political and economic liberty, along the lines of John Locke and Adam Smith: maximum individual freedom under a minimalist state.

Dewey changed the meaning to the Prussian meaning: alleviation of material and educational poverty, and the removal of old ideas and faiths. Classical liberals were more like what we call Conservatives.


Now, wingy, you actually know this...is that why you use the name 'Rightwinger'...to make folks think you're more like a conservative?

Come out of the closet!

 

[Sallow]

It had to be "made up" because socialist tools in the Democrat Party like you stole the term "liberal" back in the 1920s.

This is a true historical fact.

Try reading for comprehension some time.

So first you say I am lying and then next you say "It had to be made up".

Oh gosh.

I guess this line of reasoning is fine in your anarchist circles.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Classical" Liberal is a made up Conservative term that Conservatives use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress.

Liberalism is a mindset that is constantly growing and changing.

To help..

Conservatives seek to preserve the traditional order. Conservatives love a powerful government dominated by leaders that are chosen by "divinity" or force. These sorts of governments include Monarchy, Aristocracy, Dictatorship, Theocracy and Plutocracy.

Liberals on the other hand favor government that are inclusive of the governed. Like in Democracy or Representative governments like Republics.

Let me help, Sally-

1) Conservatives believe that there are moral truths, right and wrong, and that these truths are permanent. The result of infracting these truths will be atrocities and social disaster. Liberals believe in a privatization of morality so complete that no code of conduct is generally accepted, practically to the point of ‘do what you can get away with’. These beliefs are aimed at the gratification of appetites and exhibit anarchistic impulses.

2) Conservatives believe that custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace. Law is custom and precedent. Liberals are destroyers of custom and convention. To a conservative, change should be gradual, as the new society is often inferior to the old. We build on the ideas and experience of our ancestors. The species is wiser than the individual (Burke).

3) Liberals are impulsive, and imprudent. They believe in quick changes, and risk new abuses worse than the ‘evils’ that they would sweep away, since remedies are usually not simple. Plato said that prudence is the mark of the statesman. There should be a balance between permanence and change, while liberals see ‘progress’ as some mythical direction for society.

4) Conservatives believe in the principle of variety, while liberal perspectives result in a narrowing uniformity. Conservatives believe in choice of healthcare, education, religion, and various other areas. Under conservative principles, there will be differences in class, material condition and other inequalities. Equality will be of opportunity, not necessarily of result. The only uniformity will be before the law. Society will not be perfect. Consider the results of the rule of ideologues of the last century.

5) Freedom and property are linked. Private property results in a more stable and productive society. Private property and retaining the fruits of one’s labor has been proven successful from the Puritan’s Bradford, to the Stakhanovite Revolution!

6) Conservatives believe in voluntary community and charity, based on duties to each other, with the assumption that each person must do whatever he could to avoid requiring assistance, as opposed to involuntary collectivism, as in “let the government do it..” Burke's understanding that the "little platoon" - family, neighborhood, professional organizations etc - is the "first principle" of society has been consistently identified as providing the necessary inspiration for conservativism. And explains why conservatives give more to charity than liberals.

7) Conservatives view people as both good and bad, and for this reason believe on restraints on power, as in checks and balances, while liberals see power as a force for good, as long as the power is in their hands.

8) Liberals and Conservatives differ in the way to proceed. For Conservatives, data informs policy. (“More Guns, Less Crime” and “Mass murderers apparently can’t read, since they are constantly shooting up ‘gun-free zones.’”- Coulter) We use Conservative principles to the best of our ability, but when confronting new and original venues, we believe in testing, and analysis of the results of the tests. For liberals, feeling passes for knowing; it is based on emotion often to the exclusion of thinking.

9) Conservatives view results differently from Liberals. Liberals respond to success and material wealth with envy and hostility, encourage class warfare and an attempt to obviate any chance that it might happen again. The exception is when it is a Liberal with the wealth. Conservatives see success as the validation and culmination of the application of Conservative principles, most prominently Liberty.

10) Since Liberals see their view as a higher calling that that of Conservatives, they mistakenly believe that it is entirely appropriate for then to use, not logic, facts, nor accepted debating techniques, but ad hominem attacks on the physical appearance, personal history, or imaginary mental defects. Notice how the Liberal replaces intellect with emotion. This is, no doubt, based on a medieval concept of recognizing witches and demons. In fact, Liberals attempt to deal with opponents in similar fashion: recall Clarence Thomas’ “High Tech Lynching.”

 

[editec]

*Jeopardy theme plays*

The question is based on the erroneous assumption that liberal describes a particualr set of beliefs.

It doesn't.

Neither does conservative.

Both are terms RELATIVE to the state of society at the time.

Yeah that's right words ONLY have meaning in CONTEXT

We the floundering fathers liberals?

Sorta... given some of the things they supported like ending the monarchy

They were also conservative given that they choice a REPULICAN form of government with very limited DEMCORATIC franchising in it, too.

 

[Oddball]

It had to be "made up" because socialist tools in the Democrat Party like you stole the term "liberal" back in the 1920s.

This is a true historical fact.

Try reading for comprehension some time.

So first you say I am lying and then next you say "It had to be made up".

Oh gosh.

I guess this line of reasoning is fine in your anarchist circles.

The lie was your bullshit about the term being created for "Conservatives (to) use to make themselves feel good about standing in the way of progress."

It was created because of the Orwellian propensity of socialists/progressives to bastardize the language....They stole and debauched the term, so real liberals had to distance themselves from the poseurs.