Triumph Of Evil

[White knight]

How many troops do you think it will take to stop the Janjaweed?
There’s no organization that would back a humanitarian/mercy operation? Not even Christian organizations that would lobby for an intervention?
What is Washington’s official position on this? I would think someone is working on a plan.
I can see 2 reasons behind not intervening just yet.
1. Too close to election time.
2. The oil industry is already volatile, if the prices get too high, we would have some economic woes.
The thing that propelled our intervention in Somalia was the news media. It was in the publics face so much that they just could not take it any more, they forced the administration to act.

 

[NATO AIR]

the strategy from operation provide comfort (where we defended and saved the kurds from extermination after the gulf war) would be our playbook... no fly zone especially along with tight borders.

force would only need to be 5-8,000 strong with the right equipment, along with three to four naval or air force squadrons for the no-fly zone.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think this has been one of the most substantial threads i have read so far. ill have to write more when i have more time.

 

[White knight]

the strategy from operation provide comfort (where we defended and saved the kurds from extermination after the gulf war) would be our playbook... no fly zone especially along with tight borders.

force would only need to be 5-8,000 strong with the right equipment, along with three to four naval or air force squadrons for the no-fly zone.

Thats too big of a profile for this sensative anti-crusader climate.
If the U.S. is going to get involved we need a smaller foot print.

 

[NATO AIR]

Thats too big of a profile for this sensative anti-crusader climate.
If the U.S. is going to get involved we need a smaller foot print.

maybe not, the force could be composed of canadians, brazillians (they've offered to join a US force in Darfur, as they have (and now lead that force) in haiti), brits, australians, japanese, south koreans, south africans, nigerians and rwandans... fuck it throw in the israelis, i'm sure the jews of israel would be glad to stick it to the arab hate mongers in sudan in the name of stopping genocide and averting another holocaust.

that kind of force could be mustered in less than a week and transported by the US to darfur in less than a week. no need for heavy tanks, light equipment with helicopters, survelliance and fighter aircraft coming from US bases in Europe. Marines could come from Djibouti. there is also a marine expeditionary force (marine aircraft/amphibious assault ships/devil dawgs riding aboard waiting to kick ass) on standby in spain at all times that could go through the persian gulf and into that corner of the world in ten days or less... i know, i've talked to a few of these guys and other navy folks in europe and agonized with them over this.

fuck the anti-crusader climate... those are the kinds of people who hate america, hate the military, hate standing up for the right thing and would stand around doing nothing while hitler or his 21st century soul mates slaughtered countless innocents.

trust me, if pres. bush and john kerry both issued concurring statements on the need for US deployment of forces to darfur (and in my heart, i know they would if it came down to it), the american people would listen and support wholeheartedly. the american people have not been educated or even been given a morsel of truth and reality about what's been going in darfur by the media. if that changed, so would public opinion, and so would public outrage.

 

[White knight]

It just seems to be to close to election time. I think both canadates don't even want to open this can of worms.
I know it is not right. Hang in there.
Just from you post I have talked with other Americans about this topic. Even though it on the news most people know nothing about this issue. You tell them about Darfur, What is that? after you explain it, they say yeah thats not right.
More people have to be waken up.

 

[NATO AIR]

It just seems to be to close to election time. I think both canadates don't even want to open this can of worms.
I know it is not right. Hang in there.
Just from you post I have talked with other Americans about this topic. Even though it on the news most people know nothing about this issue. You tell them about Darfur, What is that? after you explain it, they say yeah thats not right.
More people have to be waken up.

alma powell (colin powell's wife)- "If you're not outraged, you're not aware."

 

[NATO AIR]

i thought i'd add the ending part of nick kristof's newest column in the NYT (He's been one of the few to be raising hell about Darfur from the beginning, as well as being a fair judge of world actions and American response to all this)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/20/opinion/20kris.html?oref=login&hp

I can't fathom is our own moral choice, our decision to acquiesce in genocide.

We in America could save kids like Abdelrahim and Muhammad. This wouldn't require troops, just a bit of gumption to declare a no-fly zone, to press our Western allies and nearby Arab and African states, to impose an arms embargo and other targeted sanctions, to push a meaningful U.N. resolution even at the risk of a Chinese veto, and to insist upon the deployment of a larger African force.

Instead, President Bush's policy is to chide Sudan and send aid. That's much better than nothing and has led Sudan to kill fewer children and to kill more humanely: Sudan now mostly allows kids in Darfur like Abdelrahim to die of starvation, instead of heaving them onto bonfires. But fundamentally, U.S. policy seems to be to "manage" the genocide rather than to act decisively to stop it.

The lackadaisical international response has already permitted the deaths of about 100,000 people in Darfur, and up to 10,000 more are dying each month. We should look Abdelrahim and Muhammad in the eye and feel deeply ashamed.

 

[CSM]

i thought i'd add the ending part of nick kristof's newest column in the NYT (He's been one of the few to be raising hell about Darfur from the beginning, as well as being a fair judge of world actions and American response to all this)

I still say, where the hell is the rest of the world? Granted, genocide in any form is unacceptable and the US has the capability to do something. So do a whole lot of other nations. Even the UN has the capability; where the hell are they? Where are the French, the Germans, the Russians, the Chinese and all those other countries who take every opportunity to bash the US?

 

[NATO AIR]

I still say, where the hell is the rest of the world? Granted, genocide in any form is unacceptable and the US has the capability to do something. So do a whole lot of other nations. Even the UN has the capability; where the hell are they? Where are the French, the Germans, the Russians, the Chinese and all those other countries who take every opportunity to bash the US?

China is profiting from the genocide, all they care about is Sudan's oil

France is waiting for the US to do something, as usual

Russia is selling jet fighters and weapons to Sudan, all they care about is money.

Germany is skeptical it is a genocide and is waiting for the US.

Britain is skeptical to a fault but they would stand with us if we acted. As would many other nations. The key is the US taking the leadership role. The African Union is trying but does not yet have the capability to handle this at all. We need to start working on that NOW so we don't have a repeat of this nightmare a few years down the road.

CSM, we're the only SUPERpower in the world. We liberate the oppressed, rescue the endangered and overthrow tyrants. No one else. No one else in the near future.

 

[CSM]

China is profiting from the genocide, all they care about is Sudan's oil

France is waiting for the US to do something, as usual

Russia is selling jet fighters and weapons to Sudan, all they care about is money.

Germany is skeptical it is a genocide and is waiting for the US.

Britain is skeptical to a fault but they would stand with us if we acted. As would many other nations. The key is the US taking the leadership role. The African Union is trying but does not yet have the capability to handle this at all. We need to start working on that NOW so we don't have a repeat of this nightmare a few years down the road.

CSM, we're the only SUPERpower in the world. We liberate the oppressed, rescue the endangered and overthrow tyrants. No one else. No one else in the near future.

I am not opposed to the US stepping in over there. I am opposed to listening to the rest of the world condemn the US (again) for not going to the UN, for not forming a coalition, blah, blah, blah, all fostered by the aforementioned countries. The thought has crossed my mind more than once that those countries listed need a good nuclear spanking.

 

[NATO AIR]

I am not opposed to the US stepping in over there. I am opposed to listening to the rest of the world condemn the US (again) for not going to the UN, for not forming a coalition, blah, blah, blah, all fostered by the aforementioned countries. The thought has crossed my mind more than once that those countries listed need a good nuclear spanking.

Well the UN will not let us go in... China and Russia will veto any UNSC resolution we try to get past.

we have to do this with another coalition of the willing and the African Union

 

[CSM]

Well the UN will not let us go in... China and Russia will veto any UNSC resolution we try to get past.

we have to do this with another coalition of the willing and the African Union

You are correct. It is interesting that neither candidate is even mentioning the whole thing.

 

[NATO AIR]

well they've both said, use the african union, no us troops, etc etc

we need to set up a no-fly zone and teach the sudanese a lesson with our air force/navy squadrons in case they want to play around.

among several things we need to do.....

 

[CSM]

It's a start:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=8&u=/cpress/20041019/ca_pr_on_wo/bush_sudan

Bush asks Pentagon to make 2 military cargo planes available for Sudan duty
Of course there are other complexities involved:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...press/20041019/ca_pr_on_wo/libya_sudan_darfur

African leaders reject foreign intervention in Darfur conflict

Nothing is easy in international politics, eh?

 

[NATO AIR]

it never is easy or simple, or even understandable at times

 

[White knight]

The Best thing you can do is keep talking, keep telling other people about this. It's said that we are all connected by a 5th association.