Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity

[Toro]

Yer kidding, right?
If not....Please explain. This ought to be good.

The explanation is obvious -- Greece or Spain can't print euros, just as a country that is on gold standard cannot print gold.

If those countries were borrowing in their currency, they would be able to do do at low rates, just as the US, or Japan, or any other developed country is.

They are borrowing EUROS...Jesus Christ!!!!
Essentially Germany IS the EU. Theirs is the strongest and the biggest donor economy in the EU. And they have just about had enough.

And?

Those countries use a currency they don't control. And just like a gold standard, when cash leaves the country, they experience a deflationary depression. Thats what's supposed to happen in a gold standard.

 

[ilia25]

The only difference would be that Congress doesn't have to vote. considering the debt on our grandchildren is is pert near infinity now.


Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity


(CNSNews.com) - Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Friday that Congress should stop placing legal limits on the amount of money the government can borrow and effectively lift the debt limit to infinity.

On Bloomberg TV, “Political Capital” host Al Hunt asked Geithner if he believes “we ought to just eliminate the debt ceiling.”

“Oh, absolutely,” Geithner said.

“You do? Will you propose that?” Hunt asked.

Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity | CNS News

Debt limit is a stupid idea.

When the Congress votes for a budget, it instructs the government to borrow some amount. Why then the Congress has to vote on whether the government can follow those instructions?

There should be NO BORROWING. The federal government should spend within it's means.

Why?

Also, if everyone pays off its debt, then there will be no more money. Money by definition are someone's debt obligations.

This of course excludes disasters, national emergencies and national security.

What about problem with the economy? Millions of able and willing workers can't find jobs, you think helping them could be a reason enough for borrowing?

The nations that do not borrow have very strong economies. Canada's government has gone conservative with spending and fiscal issues. Their housing market for example is very strong. Why? Because the Canadian federal government never meddled in the real estate marketplace. Also Canada never monetized their debt( Printed currency) to pay for over budget spending.

What are you talking about? Canada borrows and prints its money like the US do. It did not have a financial crisis because its banks are more tightly regulated.

 

[ilia25]

The only difference would be that Congress doesn't have to vote.

Congress already votes for all expenditures of the U.S. Government. The debt ceiling is redundant. Spending past the debt ceiling is spending that Congress has already authorized

Exactly. Why make Congress voting twice for the same thing?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why do we need a budget?

What's the point?

 

[ilia25]

Why do we need a budget?

What's the point?

Stop playing fool. No one questioning whether the government needs a budget approved by Congress. The question is why approving once is not enough?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why do we need a budget?

What's the point?

Stop playing fool. No one questioning whether the government needs a budget approved by Congress. The question is why Congress has to approve a part of already approved budget?

We haven't had a budget in 4 fucking years, why start now?

 

[ilia25]

Why do we need a budget?

What's the point?

Stop playing fool. No one questioning whether the government needs a budget approved by Congress. The question is why Congress has to approve a part of already approved budget?

We haven't had a budget in 4 fucking years, why start now?

Really? Then where are these numbers came form:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[thereisnospoon]

The explanation is obvious -- Greece or Spain can't print euros, just as a country that is on gold standard cannot print gold.

If those countries were borrowing in their currency, they would be able to do do at low rates, just as the US, or Japan, or any other developed country is.

They are borrowing EUROS...Jesus Christ!!!!
Essentially Germany IS the EU. Theirs is the strongest and the biggest donor economy in the EU. And they have just about had enough.

And?

Those countries use a currency they don't control. And just like a gold standard, when cash leaves the country, they experience a deflationary depression. Thats what's supposed to happen in a gold standard.

Aww come on. First it was a gold standard. Now it's "like" a gold standard.
And please....Stop with "supposed to"...
Supposed to = Theory
Does = reality.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Debt limit is a stupid idea.

When the Congress votes for a budget, it instructs the government to borrow some amount. Why then the Congress has to vote on whether the government can follow those instructions?

There should be NO BORROWING. The federal government should spend within it's means.

Why?

Also, if everyone pays off its debt, then there will be no more money. Money by definition are someone's debt obligations.

This of course excludes disasters, national emergencies and national security.

What about problem with the economy? Millions of able and willing workers can't find jobs, you think helping them could be a reason enough for borrowing?

The nations that do not borrow have very strong economies. Canada's government has gone conservative with spending and fiscal issues. Their housing market for example is very strong. Why? Because the Canadian federal government never meddled in the real estate marketplace. Also Canada never monetized their debt( Printed currency) to pay for over budget spending.

What are you talking about? Canada borrows and prints its money like the US do. It did not have a financial crisis because its banks are more tightly regulated.

I provided a link backing up my comments. Where's yours?
Canada's federal government wisely kept it's nose out of the domestic economy. That is THE reason why Canada is more prosperous than we are here in the US.

 

[ilia25]

..
Supposed to = Theory
Does = reality.

That is not a theory. The countries that hold onto gold standard during Great Depression went trough similar troubles (deflationary depression) that the eurozone periphery is going through now.

 

[ilia25]

Canada's federal government wisely kept it's nose out of the domestic economy. That is THE reason why Canada is more prosperous than we are here in the US.

You have no idea what are you talking about. Canada collects more taxes and has bigger welfare state than the US. It has free government healthcare modelled on that of the Soviet Union since 50s -- Canada remains the only developed country where you cannot buy a better private insurance or even pay out-of pocket to jump the queue (that is why many people go to the States to get an elective surgery or MRI).

As for banking regulations, it is true that the the Canadian government did not encourage its banks to relax its lending standards in order to promote the home ownership. But it was not a hands off approach either -- the bank regulators were obsessed with risk management.

As for the links, can't you google? Here is just one, that's Canadian prime-minister talking:
Harper credits regulations for preventing bank bailouts - Canada - CBC News

 

[Toro]

Canada's federal government wisely kept it's nose out of the domestic economy. That is THE reason why Canada is more prosperous than we are here in the US.

You have no idea what are you talking about. Canada collects more taxes and has bigger welfare state than the US. It has free government healthcare modelled on that of the Soviet Union since 50s -- Canada remains the only developed country where you cannot buy a better private insurance or even pay out-of pocket to jump the queue (that is why many people go to the States to get an elective surgery or MRI).

As for banking regulations, it is true that the the Canadian government did not encourage its banks to relax its lending standards in order to promote the home ownership. But it was not a hands off approach either -- the bank regulators were obsessed with risk management.

As for the links, can't you google? Here is just one, that's Canadian prime-minister talking:
Harper credits regulations for preventing bank bailouts - Canada - CBC News

Canadian healthcare isn't modeled after the 1950s USSR.

 

[Toro]

They are borrowing EUROS...Jesus Christ!!!!
Essentially Germany IS the EU. Theirs is the strongest and the biggest donor economy in the EU. And they have just about had enough.

And?

Those countries use a currency they don't control. And just like a gold standard, when cash leaves the country, they experience a deflationary depression. Thats what's supposed to happen in a gold standard.

Aww come on. First it was a gold standard. Now it's "like" a gold standard.
And please....Stop with "supposed to"...
Supposed to = Theory
Does = reality.

"As if they are on a gold standard" = "like a gold standard."

If you don't understand what happens when money leaves an economy, you don't understand the gold standard.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Stop playing fool. No one questioning whether the government needs a budget approved by Congress. The question is why Congress has to approve a part of already approved budget?

We haven't had a budget in 4 fucking years, why start now?

Really? Then where are these numbers came form:
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those are continued resolutions and they aren't balanced. A balanced budget consists of revenues = expenditures.

 

[thereisnospoon]

..
Supposed to = Theory
Does = reality.

That is not a theory. The countries that hold onto gold standard during Great Depression went trough similar troubles (deflationary depression) that the eurozone periphery is going through now.

You're going to go with that? Ok...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Canada's federal government wisely kept it's nose out of the domestic economy. That is THE reason why Canada is more prosperous than we are here in the US.

You have no idea what are you talking about. Canada collects more taxes and has bigger welfare state than the US. It has free government healthcare modelled on that of the Soviet Union since 50s -- Canada remains the only developed country where you cannot buy a better private insurance or even pay out-of pocket to jump the queue (that is why many people go to the States to get an elective surgery or MRI).

As for banking regulations, it is true that the the Canadian government did not encourage its banks to relax its lending standards in order to promote the home ownership. But it was not a hands off approach either -- the bank regulators were obsessed with risk management.

As for the links, can't you google? Here is just one, that's Canadian prime-minister talking:
Harper credits regulations for preventing bank bailouts - Canada - CBC News

Ok, I read the story in the link. And your point is?
Or are you going to post a non sequitur regarding banking regulations being different from those in the US? Hardly significant in the grand scheme.
In fact this link helps make my point more salient.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh So now Canada's socialized medicine system sucks. But it's ok for the US?
Hey dummy..ALL financial institutions are risk averse. That is what keeps them in business and their customers/shareholders happy.
The bottom line is the Canadian federal government never monetized their debt. It stated OUT of the domestic real estate marketplace.
Don't try it. You've brought bows and arrows to battle with laser guided missiles. Stand down. You are out gunned here.
Links? When one makes a claim it is THEY who are responsible for posting links to prove their claims.
You don't get to post whatever you want and them demand others do your research for you.
Or is this another aspect of life as liberal. You think you are entitled to have others do your work for you. No dice. Get it yourself.

 

[ilia25]

The bottom line is the Canadian federal government never monetized their debt.

What do you mean by "monetizing the debt"? Canada monetary and fiscal policy is no different than that of the US. Canadian government runs deficits when the economy is slow just as the US or any other developed country.

It stated OUT of the domestic real estate marketplace.

It didn't -- it made sure the banks are regulated as they should be.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The bottom line is the Canadian federal government never monetized their debt.

What do you mean by "monetizing the debt"? Canada monetary and fiscal policy is no different than that of the US. Canadian government runs deficits when the economy is slow just as the US or any other developed country.

It stated OUT of the domestic real estate marketplace.

It didn't -- it made sure the banks are regulated as they should be.

oy vay!.. You must be from Rio Linda.....
The difference. The US federal government passed legislation mandating banks make mortgage loans to those who in the past would not have qualified for said loan. This was the idea that do-gooders came up with. With the lack of home ownership by those in the lower levels of middle income, liberal politicians saw a CRISIS. They in their infinite wisdom ignored the poor credit scores and shaky job histories of these people and decided the problem( BTW they said it was a problem. Banks thought it was good and solid lending practices) was not poor credit or questionable job history. It HAD to be racial. That Americans had a RIGHT to home ownership. So they dreamed up this concept of "red lining". Yes, the banks were excluding people and certain neighborhoods because of race or culture. It had to be that! Meanwhile banks were doing everything within reason to increase the diversity of their customers. It made sense. As banks grew in size, they HAD to increase their available consumer base. To the do-gooders, this was not good enough. So they made threats to banks that if they didn't stop the alleged red lining, the banks could expect a visit from federal auditors for a bend over and grab your ankles session.
The federal government even gave the banks something in return.. Those included, Fannie/Freddie which essentially guaranteed the loans in case of default. And the federal government in close cooperation with the SEC, gave the banks the ability to sell their loans to others. Mainly brokerage houses that packaged the loans into "mortgage backed securities" which were bought and sold many times.
None of which was ever predicted to meet the perfect fiscal storm. Which was, a fall in the demand for housing, a sagging economy, rising unemployment, bad loans which were poorly written, various types of loans which required little or no money down. Variable rate loans. Interest only loans... The whole truck load or shit. Also it was assumed none of these or very few of these buyers would dare walk away from their home. After all it would adversely affect their credit. Well, that was it. People lost jobs, etc. Homes fell into foreclosure. Some starter neighborhoods saw up to 50% of the homes either vacant or in foreclosure. This killed the value of the other homes in the area....All of this was the fiscal perfect storm.....
Now, guess what?...Canada did NONE of this. They were wise enough to realize that no home ownership was not for everyone. That certain people no matter what their path, were simply not financially qualified to borrow large sums of money.