Trayvon Martin And The Right To Be Left Alone...

[Dick Tuck]

The author is actually addressing the issue in an wider overall sense. It's not just about this specific incident. It's more than that. I really hope people read the entire article.

I did, and it's a good article. But the underlying right to just be able to take a walk without being profiled is what's profound about it. Everyone should have a right to just take a walk or drive their car, without being profiled because of skin color or wearing a hoodie. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin's hoodie could have said Stanford or MIT on it.

 

[paulitician]

The author is actually addressing the issue in an wider overall sense. It's not just about this specific incident. It's more than that. I really hope people read the entire article.

I did, and it's a good article. But the underlying right to just be able to take a walk without being profiled is what's profound about it. Everyone should have a right to just take a walk or drive their car, without being profiled because of skin color or wearing a hoodie. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin's hoodie could have said Stanford or MIT on it.

I hear ya somewhat, but we just don't know if it was about race for Zimmerman. We shouldn't rush to a presumption of guilt before his due process. He deserves his day in Court.

 

[GWV5903]

From what I have read Trayvon attacked Zimmerman before he was killed. If that account is accurate and I believe that it is, I would have also shot the guy.

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

fucking idiot...there is actually more evidence that he did NOT continue to chase him than evidence that he DID continue to chasde him.

Actually, there is NO evidence showing that he continued to chase him.

How is it that you feel you can debate topics you are not well informed on?

His name says it all... "Dick Tuck"

 

[Dick Tuck]

From what I have read Trayvon attacked Zimmerman before he was killed. If that account is accurate and I believe that it is, I would have also shot the guy.

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

Heh, you are reaching there Pal. That isn't how the 911 call nor the eye witness testimony says the incident occurred. That is you're distorted version to make it fit what you want it to.

The witness does not claim to know what caused the altercation. The 9/11 call clearly told Zimmerman he shouldn't be following the person, and Zimmerman's use of the term "fucking coons" was completely voluntary on his part.

No one has claimed that Martin was committing a crime when Zimmerman first profiled him, and called 9/11, stalked him, and then chased him, and subsequently killed him (the jury will decide if it was murder).

 

[Luddly Neddite]

From what I have read Trayvon attacked Zimmerman before he was killed. If that account is accurate and I believe that it is, I would have also shot the guy.

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

fucking idiot...there is actually more evidence that he did NOT continue to chase him than evidence that he DID continue to chasde him.

Actually, there is NO evidence showing that he continued to chase him.

How is it that you feel you can debate topics you are not well informed on?

Well yeah, actually there is very definitive evidence that Zimmerman did continue to stalk and chase Trayvon -

He shot him dead.

If he had not continued to stalk and chase him, he would not have had the opportunity to kill him.

 

[High_Gravity]

Interesting take from Mark Judge.


I’ve never been able to get over the crucial minutes of George Zimmerman’s encounter with Trayvon Martin. I’m not talking about the initial struggle, or even the fatal shooting. That’s where most of the media coverage has been, and for good reason. A life has been lost and it’s important to figure out exactly what happened.

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled. I’m aware that “hassle” is a term straight out of 1973, and maybe that’s deliberate. When I was growing up in Maryland in the 1970s, my mom had a term for people in the neighborhood who made it their job to mind everything that went on there: the sidewalk superintendent.

Sidewalk superintendents were mostly decent people just trying to protect the neighborhood. Bill Bennett once noted that in the old days the neighborhood watch consisted of mothers on their front porches who could spring into action when they saw something amiss. Such people are an important part of creating a safe and thriving community. Indeed, George Zimmerman had foiled at least one robbery in Twin Lakes, the crime-ridden complex in Florida where the shooting took place.

Trayvon Martin was not one of these; he was a teenage kid. But he was exercising his right to take a nocturnal sojourn and enter a quiet space where the world did not intrude. It set my conservative (even libertarian-leaning) alarm off when I heard the 911 tape where Zimmerman tells police that Trayvon Martin looks like he “is up to no good.” It was just too reminiscent of some sidewalk superintendents I knew as a kid. They were the guys who appeared the second you lit some firecrackers or killed a tick with a magnifying glass...

Read more: Trayvon Martin | Trayvon Martin and the right to be left alone | The Daily Caller

Good post.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Just curious - Why is this in "Politics"?

For that matter, why is it still being rehashed?

 

[BlindBoo]

I'm not convicting Zimmerman before due process, and neither is the author of this article. But the article is very interesting.

But the article is assuming he was just "walking"..

Now...I dont know what happened....and I have no presumptions...

But...

Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he was walking from car to car seeing if one was unlocked? That is very suspicious.
Maybe he was not actually walking on the sidewalk but closer to the front doors seeing which one may be ajar?
Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he would slow down near a front door and "look around" as if trying to see if someone sees him
Maybe he was just walking.

That article AGAIN did the wrong thing.

It assumes he did not ACT suspicious.

FYI...people usually dont LOOK suspicious...but many ACT suspicious.

There should be no more artilces on this. Let the facts come out first.

Then why did Zimmerman say he "looks" like he is up to no good instead of saying "he's checking out cars" or "he's checking for unlocked units"

 

[High_Gravity]

I'm not convicting Zimmerman before due process, and neither is the author of this article. But the article is very interesting.

But the article is assuming he was just "walking"..

Now...I dont know what happened....and I have no presumptions...

But...

Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he was walking from car to car seeing if one was unlocked? That is very suspicious.
Maybe he was not actually walking on the sidewalk but closer to the front doors seeing which one may be ajar?
Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he would slow down near a front door and "look around" as if trying to see if someone sees him
Maybe he was just walking.

That article AGAIN did the wrong thing.

It assumes he did not ACT suspicious.

FYI...people usually dont LOOK suspicious...but many ACT suspicious.

There should be no more artilces on this. Let the facts come out first.

The term "suspicious" varies though, what looks suspicious to you might not look suspicious to me and so on.

 

[WorldWatcher]

From what I have read Trayvon attacked Zimmerman before he was killed. If that account is accurate and I believe that it is, I would have also shot the guy.

And what you have "read" is speculation, there has been no evidence released to public that describes who did what were when between the time that Zimmerman left his truck and when the first witness arrived that showed the hostilities had already commenced between the two.l


>>>>

 

[Bigfoot]

The author is actually addressing the issue in an wider overall sense. It's not just about this specific incident. It's more than that. I really hope people read the entire article.

I did, and it's a good article. But the underlying right to just be able to take a walk without being profiled is what's profound about it. Everyone should have a right to just take a walk or drive their car, without being profiled because of skin color or wearing a hoodie. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin's hoodie could have said Stanford or MIT on it.

I hear ya somewhat, but we just don't know if it was about race for Zimmerman. We shouldn't rush to a presumption of guilt before his due process. He deserves his day in Court.

/agree. Now that he has been arrested, for what appears to be a politically motivated arrest (The prosecutor is looking at a judgeship election in the near future) the man will have his day in court. At this point that is likely a good thing for Zimmerman, personally I think he shouldn't have been arrested. However in the firearms classes that I am involved with, it is taught that if you do shoot someone, right or wrong, you will end up in court.

 

[WillowTree]

As bad as some of the media coverage has been with edited tapes and using what I feel are old and prejudicial pictures, I have some of the same questions. Neighborhood Watch folks aren't supposed to carry guns. Neighborhood Watch folks should follow instructions from real law enforcement (like stop following him)
Now a kid is dead. Sounds like manslaughter might have been a more resonable charge, but maybe they know a lot more than I do (God - I hope so).

The only thing you have said that is true is "the kid is dead." Law enforcement did not tell Zimmerman to stop following, a 9-11 dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that" which is not the same as the command "stop following." Now, the tapes have been edited, the racial stirring has been done. the media has had it trial and conviction and Zimmerman will never get a fair trial. And, in Florida as well as in Texas there is a "castle doctrine" from what I've read Zimmerman was on watch because homes in that complex had been burgled at least four times within that month.

 

[Jarhead]

I'm not convicting Zimmerman before due process, and neither is the author of this article. But the article is very interesting.

But the article is assuming he was just "walking"..

Now...I dont know what happened....and I have no presumptions...

But...

Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he was walking from car to car seeing if one was unlocked? That is very suspicious.
Maybe he was not actually walking on the sidewalk but closer to the front doors seeing which one may be ajar?
Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he would slow down near a front door and "look around" as if trying to see if someone sees him
Maybe he was just walking.

That article AGAIN did the wrong thing.

It assumes he did not ACT suspicious.

FYI...people usually dont LOOK suspicious...but many ACT suspicious.

There should be no more artilces on this. Let the facts come out first.

Then why did Zimmerman say he "looks" like he is up to no good instead of saying "he's checking out cars" or "he's checking for unlocked units"

maybe becuase he wasnt checking cars or front doors.
I dont know.
The investigation isnt completed yet.

Thats pretty much my point.

I dont know what happened...and it is presumptuous to assume that Treyvon was simply walking un-suspiciously through the neighboirhood as the article the OP cited implied........just as it is presumptuious to think he was walking suspiciously.

None of us know yet...but so many of us are ready to offer our opinion on how Treyvon was wrong and/or Zimmerman was wrong.

 

[WorldWatcher]

From what I have read Trayvon attacked Zimmerman before he was killed. If that account is accurate and I believe that it is, I would have also shot the guy.

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

fucking idiot...there is actually more evidence that he did NOT continue to chase him than evidence that he DID continue to chasde him.

Actually, there is NO evidence showing that he continued to chase him.

How is it that you feel you can debate topics you are not well informed on?

Actually there is evidence that can be derived from phone records, the location of the truck on Twin Trees Lane and the event occuring around behind the condo complex buildings.

Dispatcher Call ~~ 19:11
Girlfriend Inbound Call ~~ 19:12
Zimmerman Exits Truck ~~ + 2 minutes 10 seconds
Zimmerman Acknowledges Dispatcher Instruction Not To Follow ~~ +2 minutes 28 seconds
Dispatcher Call Ends ~~ 19:15
Girlfriend Call Ends ~~ 19:16

Examining the recording, the time from exiting the truck to acknowledging the dispatcher instructions was 18 seconds.

If Zimmerman was returning to his truck at the point he acknowledges the dispatcher with "OK", that would have occurred at approximately time 19:13:28. The girlfriends call ended at approximately 19:16 based on phone records (call time + duration). The difference is approximately 2 minutes 30 seconds to 3 minutes to return to the truck, when traveling away from the truck for 18 seconds.

Yet Zimmerman is farther from the truck then he would have been after the 18 second travel time.


>>>>

 

[Jarhead]

I'm not convicting Zimmerman before due process, and neither is the author of this article. But the article is very interesting.

But the article is assuming he was just "walking"..

Now...I dont know what happened....and I have no presumptions...

But...

Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he was walking from car to car seeing if one was unlocked? That is very suspicious.
Maybe he was not actually walking on the sidewalk but closer to the front doors seeing which one may be ajar?
Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he would slow down near a front door and "look around" as if trying to see if someone sees him
Maybe he was just walking.

That article AGAIN did the wrong thing.

It assumes he did not ACT suspicious.

FYI...people usually dont LOOK suspicious...but many ACT suspicious.

There should be no more artilces on this. Let the facts come out first.

The term "suspicious" varies though, what looks suspicious to you might not look suspicious to me and so on.

true..

But the point is neither of us can say he was or was not acting suspiciosuly becuase we have absolutely no idea what he was doing yet.
He may have been simply skipping along the sidewalk eatiing his skittles

We have no freaking idea.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Lot to be determined in court and I'm more than happy to let them do my job. And between forensic evidence, recorded phone conversations, etc ... I think the jury will be able to get a decent handle on what happened.

The questions that I am going to be looking for answers to are: Why was Zimmermasn carrying his weapon on Neighborhood Watch when Neighborhood Watch told him not to? Why did he continue to follow Martin after police told him not to? Does Martin's body show any signs or trace evidence that he attacked Zimmerman? Does Zimmerman's body show any signs or trace evidence that Martin attacked him?
But in the end, it doesn't matter two hoots what I think or believe. The justice syatem will handle it and nothing I believe will change a thing.

 

[Jarhead]

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

fucking idiot...there is actually more evidence that he did NOT continue to chase him than evidence that he DID continue to chasde him.

Actually, there is NO evidence showing that he continued to chase him.

How is it that you feel you can debate topics you are not well informed on?

Actually there is evidence that can be derived from phone records, the location of the truck on Twin Trees Lane and the event occuring around behind the condo complex buildings.

Dispatcher Call ~~ 19:11
Girlfriend Inbound Call ~~ 19:12
Zimmerman Exits Truck ~~ + 2 minutes 10 seconds
Zimmerman Acknowledges Dispatcher Instruction Not To Follow ~~ +2 minutes 28 seconds
Dispatcher Call Ends ~~ 19:15
Girlfriend Call Ends ~~ 19:16

Examining the recording, the time from exiting the truck to acknowledging the dispatcher instructions was 18 seconds.

If Zimmerman was returning to his truck at the point he acknowledges the dispatcher with "OK", that would have occurred at approximately time 19:13:28. The girlfriends call ended at approximately 19:16 based on phone records (call time + duration). The difference is approximately 2 minutes 30 seconds to 3 minutes to return to the truck, when traveling away from the truck for 18 seconds.

Yet Zimmerman is farther from the truck then he would have been after the 18 second travel time.


>>>>

he was told by the 911 operator to meet the police by the mailboxes.
Perhaps he was walking toward the mailboxes...the opposite direction of his vehicle?
Maybe? Maybe not.
We just dont know yet.

Which is my point.

We dont know and any article such as the one cioted by the OP is way too presumptuous and only stirring things up.

 

[nodoginnafight]

But the article is assuming he was just "walking"..

Now...I dont know what happened....and I have no presumptions...

But...

Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he was walking from car to car seeing if one was unlocked? That is very suspicious.
Maybe he was not actually walking on the sidewalk but closer to the front doors seeing which one may be ajar?
Maybe he was just walking
Maybe he would slow down near a front door and "look around" as if trying to see if someone sees him
Maybe he was just walking.

That article AGAIN did the wrong thing.

It assumes he did not ACT suspicious.

FYI...people usually dont LOOK suspicious...but many ACT suspicious.

There should be no more artilces on this. Let the facts come out first.

The term "suspicious" varies though, what looks suspicious to you might not look suspicious to me and so on.

true..

But the point is neither of us can say he was or was not acting suspiciosuly becuase we have absolutely no idea what he was doing yet.
He may have been simply skipping along the sidewalk eatiing his skittles

We have no freaking idea.

Doesn't matter - we don't shot people dead for "acting suspicious" in the United States.
and the people who know more charged him with second degree murder. Sounds stiff to me - but if they know enough to make that stick - so be it.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The witness does not claim to know what caused the altercation. The 9/11 call clearly told Zimmerman he shouldn't be following the person, and Zimmerman's use of the term "fucking coons" was completely voluntary on his part.

1. Zimmerman never called 911. He called the non-emergency number, which means there will be no GPS record under E911.

2. Isolation and replay of the tape shows he said "Fucking Punks".


>>>>

 

[Bigfoot]

Would you have profiled him, stalked him, and then chased him without observing him committing a crime? Would you have ignored police advise to not do so?

What if you saw someone stalking you and then chasing you? What would you do if they finally came up to you in a threatening manner? Would you cold cock the person? Would that give them the right to murder you?

fucking idiot...there is actually more evidence that he did NOT continue to chase him than evidence that he DID continue to chasde him.

Actually, there is NO evidence showing that he continued to chase him.

How is it that you feel you can debate topics you are not well informed on?

Well yeah, actually there is very definitive evidence that Zimmerman did continue to stalk and chase Trayvon -

He shot him dead.

If he had not continued to stalk and chase him, he would not have had the opportunity to kill him.

That certainly is not true. How do you know Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman after Zimmerman followed the 911 dispatchers advise as he agreed to do on the recording. You know the one you have supposedly listened to and are now ignoring? Maybe what you wish is correct, so far the 911 recording and eye witness say that your statement is false. Hopefully the truth will come out in court.