Travelers........wondering what

[CSM]

I am not against profiling, but we if we are to do it then we should target the right people. In my lifetime I have witnessed three major terrorist attacks in this country. World Trade Center 1, Oklahoma, and World Trade Center 2. So if we are going to examine Arabs more closely than the rest of the bunch then we should also examine white males, aged 18-55, from middle America with strong Christian beliefs. This group is after all responsible for the second most deadly terror attack on American Soil. The problem with profiling is that everyone, with the exceptions of little old women, fit the profile. Maybe not the profile of the terrorists that attacked us, but certainly of some terrorist group somewhere I.e. Chechnya, Spain, Cashmere, Japan, and Indonesia. If we are going to profile for potential terrorists then we should do so on a global level because our war against is (and rightly so) a global one. We see beheadings by Islamic extremists on TV because that is where Americans are. I will point out though that the actions of terrorists everywhere are pretty brutal. Chechen rebels blew up a school, Japanese terrorists tried to poison a subway, and Christian fundamentalists blew up a building filled with children’s programs. We should be profiling and to that end airport security should be improved because unless you are little old women, you probably fit the bill, I sure as shit do.
Huck

While it is true that almost anyone could be a terrorist (ala Timothy McVeigh), the vast majority of terrorist acts these days are committed by Muslims. Anyone trying to make it look any different is putting political issues ahead of security issues. Remember we were talking about airport security and the TSA here and not home grown terrorists like Timmy-boy.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

I travel more than average....probably close to 100K miles this year...and more next year, I am certain.

I think that the security is good, but can always be improved. There are semantics involved that drive me crazy....TSA says they "suggest" you remove your shoes.....when they should say they require you to remove your shoes (unless you want a secondary security check).

Once in a terminal area(past security) there are no additional checks, so fliers coming from domestic flights do not have to be re-checked or ID'd again....seems there should be more checks, in my opinion. If you are not getting on another flight, you should not be allowed to loiter at a store or resturant in the airport terminal area.

NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!!!!!

ALL THE ATTACKS ON 9/11 WERE PERPETRATED BY MUSLIMS!!!! (I would suggest to all of you, that all Muslims do not come from the Middle East, or even look like Arabs. Religion does not not look one way or another.... you cannot put a color on it, or even an ethnicity.... although very rarely will you find a 70 year old grandmother in IA with a Koran....but we had better keep an eye out for that one instance!)

 

[Doc Holiday]

I am not against profiling, but we if we are to do it then we should target the right people. In my lifetime I have witnessed three major terrorist attacks in this country. World Trade Center 1, Oklahoma, and World Trade Center 2. So if we are going to examine Arabs more closely than the rest of the bunch then we should also examine white males, aged 18-55, from middle America with strong Christian beliefs. This group is after all responsible for the second most deadly terror attack on American Soil. The problem with profiling is that everyone, with the exceptions of little old women, fit the profile. Maybe not the profile of the terrorists that attacked us, but certainly of some terrorist group somewhere I.e. Chechnya, Spain, Cashmere, Japan, and Indonesia. If we are going to profile for potential terrorists then we should do so on a global level because our war against is (and rightly so) a global one. We see beheadings by Islamic extremists on TV because that is where Americans are. I will point out though that the actions of terrorists everywhere are pretty brutal. Chechen rebels blew up a school, Japanese terrorists tried to poison a subway, and Christian fundamentalists blew up a building filled with children’s programs. We should be profiling and to that end airport security should be improved because unless you are little old women, you probably fit the bill, I sure as shit do.
Huck

Huck,
They already conduct mjor surveillance on militia groups and other types. Nobody seemed to mind when that was going on. But if the FBI even dares to question someone in the area of a mosque, the Muslims are up in arms about harassment and calling the ALCU and the news media, who can't wait to splash it all over the headlines.

 

[Huckleburry]

Doc,
We have a pretty long history of racial tension. As such groups like the ACLU and the Urban League are especially sensitive about such subjects. Also, racial profiling of minorities makes a much better headline than surveillance of weekend warriors in the mid west. I am not saying that this makes it right only that it we hear about it more. I do think that the TSA does a damn good job and it one that I do not particularly want to undertake. The war on terror requires soft power as well as hard power to that end I think that racial profiling sends a message that is contrary to what America stands for. I really think that most Americans have no problem with peaceful Arabs working, studying, or immigrating to the United States. This is the American dream and it is what has made us incredibly strong. Racial profiling sends a message of hostility to off colored people every where, and makes us appear to be far more belligerent than we are. I have no problem with surveillance (as long as they adhere to the constitution) and think it is necessary to our national security. Background checks, Visas authentication all of it is a great idea. But I do think that once someone gets here they should be treated like everyone else, and allowed to pursue the American dream free from harassment. After all, a strong base of Muslim Arabs who consider themselves Americans above all things could be our most potent weapon against the war on terror

 

[Doc Holiday]

Huck,
So what you're saying is that because of past racial tensions, the ALCU gets to run amok? What you're saying is that its okay for the ALCU to put millions of Americans at risk in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of a few thousand?
The only racial tensions I have seen lately are the ones caused by Louis Farakkan and Al Sharpton and CAIR when they scream discrimination at the drop of a hat.

 

[Huckleburry]

Blaming the failure of airport security on the ACLU is pretty unfair. Ultimately they are an interest group swimming in a sea of interest groups and for every leftist cause they pursue there are opposed interest groups pushing rightist policy. The ACLU like all interest groups performs a necessary function in our society. In challenging legislation and social norms they actually strengthen the legal code of the country. In many ways it is unfortunate that the media only covers the cases the ACLU wins. Often the cases they loose are equally important in defining a range of important legal issues. However, this is not a discussion of interest groups and there role in American Politics.
I am not suggesting that we should jeopardize our security because it might make a few folks feel uncomfortable. What I am saying is that we must balance the needs of our security personnel against our greater geopolitical strategy in regards to the war on terror. The questions we must ask are.
1. How effective is racial profiling in preventing terror?
2. How important is soft power to the long run war on terror?
3. To what extent are the first two mutually exclusive?
My argument is that racial profiling is no particularly effective, especially when compared to normal modes of police surveillance, and that the message it sends to the rest of the world is very detrimental to our image abroad. While the war on terror may be fought with hard power it will be won with soft power. A fundamental shift must take place in the Muslim world; moderates who are actually faithful to their religion must reclaim power. Because it is the interest of the United States to see such a shift transpire we must develop a strategy to assist in the transition. The United States has had huge success in shaping the policy of foreign countries when we allow their citizens to live, study, and do business in the United States. This establishes personal relationships and allows foreigners to see the American dream in action. Racial profiling is an impediment to that goal. It portrays us as belligerent bigots rather than as citizens concerned for our safety. Like I said earlier a solid core of moderate, western educated and loyal Muslim Arabs could be a most potent weapon in the war on terror.
Huck

 

[Doc Holiday]

1. How effective is racial profiling in preventing terror?
2. How important is soft power to the long run war on terror?
3. To what extent are the first two mutually exclusive?
Huck

You do not racially profile, you target profile. For example, as a cop you see someone that does not fit, like a broken down 1986 Toyota Corolla with a taped up window driving slowly through a neighborhood with $500,000 homes. You should pay more attention to that because they don't fit into the area. The next question is, who is targeting America, the answer to that would be Middle Eastern males between 20 and 45 years of age. Logic would dictate that you pay a little more attention to them then to the 80 year old Grandma.
The ACLU is no longer serving a useful function, they are furthering an anti-American, anti-Christian agenda that has become their mantra. You don't see the ACLU sticking up for the white male who was laid off because his company had to hire a minority who was less qualified in order to meet a quota. The days of forcing equality are past.

 

[Johnney]

And finally - "we create terrorists". Un-f'ing-believable. It really is a shame that there is no draft. I would love to see folks like you in a uniform. You need to get a dose of reality therapy because your view of the world simply does not reflect the facts.

Come on Merlin, you know they would cry conscientious objector or im gay or amish or whatever they cry so they dont have to go.