Transgender Killing

[JayW]

Thoughts on this case? http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/09/transgender.killing.ap/index.html

Sounds like a couple of guys got blowjobs from someone who turned out to have a penis... so they beat her/him to death.

 

[Johnney]

i see they threw in that hate crime thing there in the last sentence...

 

[dmp]

I'm pretty sure EVERY murder could be a 'hate' crime by definition. :-/

 

[GotZoom]

I remember this from when it first happened.

I'm not so sure I would categorize this as a hate crime. I don't doubt the opinion they the two guys were a bit ... for lack of a better word... "shocked" when they found out that had messed around with another guy while thinking the whole time it was a girl.

When Danny Bonaduce beat up that "cross-dressing" homosexual a few years ago, he wasn't charged with a hate crime. He was just charged with assault.

I will echo our distinguished colleague from Washington State -

Every crime should be a hate crime.

 

[Johnney]

I'm pretty sure EVERY murder could be a 'hate' crime by definition. :-/

yeah but they seem to stick it on anything to do with a gay or minority though. to make it seem that much worse

 

[Mr. P]

I'm pretty sure EVERY murder could be a 'hate' crime by definition. :-/

How about a "rage" crime? There would be no end to titles we can create in order to impose the punishment we want...I say leave er alone..get rid of the hate crime BS laws and get back to common sense right/wrong. Georgia did..

 

[Johnney]

How about a "rage" crime? There would be no end to titles we can create in order to impose the punishment we want...I say leave er alone..get rid of the hate crime BS laws and get back to common sense right/wrong. Georgia did..

well theres your problem right there. common sense is another dying art

 

[Mr. P]

well theres your problem right there. common sense is another dying art

In the blue states..

 

[JayW]

How about a "rage" crime? There would be no end to titles we can create in order to impose the punishment we want...I say leave er alone..get rid of the hate crime BS laws and get back to common sense right/wrong. Georgia did..

The "rage" involved is what prevents them from being charged wth murder 1, way I understand it.

 

[Mr. P]

The "rage" involved is what prevents them from being charged wth murder 1, way I understand it.

It's sometimes called a crime of passion. Do we have additional punishment for passion? Nope.

My point was "hate" crime can be extended to anything if we stand by and allow it.

 

[JayW]

It's sometimes called a crime of passion. Do we have additional punishment for passion? Nope.

In fact, we have less.

 

[Mr. P]

In fact, we have less.

And valid reasons for that...not that I agree, but I understand it.

 

[JayW]

And valid reasons for that...not that I agree, but I understand it.

Yeah. On the one hand, planning a killing shows a greater degree of evil than killing in the heat of the moment, perhaps. But at the same time, doesn't it seem kind of like an excuse? The person killed is no less dead! That's why I asked for some thoughts on this case. I would be pretty grossed out if I found out the girl that gave me a blowjob was really a guy/had a penis. I would also be pissed that I had been deceived. But there is no way I would beat the person to death.

So it's hard for me to fully accept the "heat of the moment" thing. People with hairtrigger tempers are no less dangerous, IMO, than our more calculting killers.

Thoguhts?

 

[JayW]

Yeah. On the one hand, planning a killing shows a greater degree of evil than killing in the heat of the moment, perhaps. But at the same time, doesn't it seem kind of like an excuse? The person killed is no less dead! That's why I asked for some thoughts on this case. I would be pretty grossed out if I found out the girl that gave me a blowjob was really a guy/had a penis. I would also be pissed that I had been deceived. But there is no way I would beat the person to death.

So it's hard for me to fully accept the "heat of the moment" thing. People with hairtrigger tempers are no less dangerous, IMO, than our more calculting killers.

Thoughts?

Then again, if someone raped and killed my daughter I might beat them to death if I got to 'em before the po-po.

Would I deserve a bit of mercy?

 

[Mr. P]

Yeah. On the one hand, planning a killing shows a greater degree of evil than killing in the heat of the moment, perhaps. But at the same time, doesn't it seem kind of like an excuse? The person killed is no less dead! That's why I asked for some thoughts on this case. I would be pretty grossed out if I found out the girl that gave me a blowjob was really a guy/had a penis. I would also be pissed that I had been deceived. But there is no way I would beat the person to death.

So it's hard for me to fully accept the "heat of the moment" thing. People with hairtrigger tempers are no less dangerous, IMO, than our more calculting killers.

Thoguhts?

That's pretty much what I'm saying when I say "hate" crime is BS...dead is dead..
Circumstances...Motive....Intent all factor in...grossed out, doesn't.

 

[JayW]

That's pretty much what I'm saying when I say "hate" crime is BS...dead is dead..
Circumstances...Motive....Intent all factor in...grossed out, doesn't.

Well, IMO beatign and hanging someone on a fence because they are gay or dragging them behind your truck because they're black is worse than killing someone because they spun their tires on your front lawn. However, as I said, killing is killing. The victim is no more and no less dead so perhaps the punishment should be the same. On the otherhand, if someone is killed in the midst of a robbery the perpetrator can be charged with capital murder, no? So if someone kills someone because of their race or sexual orientation, is that worse than killing them because they chew gum?

 

[Mr. P]

Well, IMO beatign and hanging someone on a fence because they are gay or dragging them behind your truck because they're black is worse than killing someone because they spun their tires on your front lawn. However, as I said, killing is killing. The victim is no more and no less dead so perhaps the punishment should be the same. On the otherhand, if someone is killed in the midst of a robbery the perpetrator can be charged with capital murder, no? So if someone kills someone because of their race or sexual orientation, is that worse than killing them because they chew gum?

How old are you?

 

[JayW]

How old are you?

29. Why do you ask?

 

[Mr. P]

29. Why do you ask?

Because you don't seem to understand what I have been saying...dead is dead...hate crime is BS...simple.

 

[GotZoom]

Well, IMO beatign and hanging someone on a fence because they are gay or dragging them behind your truck because they're black is worse than killing someone because they spun their tires on your front lawn. However, as I said, killing is killing. The victim is no more and no less dead so perhaps the punishment should be the same. On the otherhand, if someone is killed in the midst of a robbery the perpetrator can be charged with capital murder, no? So if someone kills someone because of their race or sexual orientation, is that worse than killing them because they chew gum?

How about charging anybody who kills someone (killing is killing) with capital murder?

How is killing someone because they are gay or black worse than killing someone during a robbery.

If the people doing the killing receive the most extreme of punishment, because they killed someone it doesn't matter why they killed.

Killing is killing.

Dead is dead.