CDZ Transgender in the Military Debate

[EvilCat Breath]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

 

[task0778]

Shouldn't be a draft ever again anyway. And what does the chances for a future draft have to do with the topic?

You don't think the draft pertains to a nation's military?

Not any more

Then why are all men forced to register for selective service between 18 and 25? Well, not anymore I guess, if they just claim they think they're a woman.

No good reason IMHO. I think it's a waste of time and money. Which still has nothing to do with Trump's decision not to allow transgenders into the military.

We don't even know if that's his decision, since it was a tweet and he ends up backpedaling on most of the nonsense he says anyways.

I wonder how he'll enforce it. Who's he going to hire to fondle soldiers to check what their gear is? Is he going to ask soldiers to examine each other's crotches before going into battle?

I told you how to enforce it in Post #13.

 

[jon_berzerk]

No its not that simple.

--LOL

yeah it is that simple except for simpletons

 

[BlackFlag]

You don't think the draft pertains to a nation's military?

Not any more

Then why are all men forced to register for selective service between 18 and 25? Well, not anymore I guess, if they just claim they think they're a woman.

No good reason IMHO. I think it's a waste of time and money. Which still has nothing to do with Trump's decision not to allow transgenders into the military.

We don't even know if that's his decision, since it was a tweet and he ends up backpedaling on most of the nonsense he says anyways.

I wonder how he'll enforce it. Who's he going to hire to fondle soldiers to check what their gear is? Is he going to ask soldiers to examine each other's crotches before going into battle?

I told you how to enforce it in Post #13.

15,000 transgender people are estimated to be in the military right now. Possibly a lot more.

Now, who will you put in charge of fondling their crotches?

 

[task0778]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

 

[task0778]

Not any more

Then why are all men forced to register for selective service between 18 and 25? Well, not anymore I guess, if they just claim they think they're a woman.

No good reason IMHO. I think it's a waste of time and money. Which still has nothing to do with Trump's decision not to allow transgenders into the military.

We don't even know if that's his decision, since it was a tweet and he ends up backpedaling on most of the nonsense he says anyways.

I wonder how he'll enforce it. Who's he going to hire to fondle soldiers to check what their gear is? Is he going to ask soldiers to examine each other's crotches before going into battle?

I told you how to enforce it in Post #13.

15,000 transgender people are estimated to be in the military right now. Possibly a lot more.

Now, who will you put in charge of fondling their crotches?

Self identification, don't be a horse's ass. If you think you're in the wrong body you can apply for and get an immediate discharge. Same as it used to be with gays, if you kept your mouth shut then nobody cared.

 

[Tilly]

If a man thinks he's the President of the US (and he isn't), would you (anyone) want him in the military?

 

[skye]

Some want the military to look like this.

Well . It won't

 

[Tilly]

Some want the military to look like this.

Well . It won't

Yes, they want the military to be a laughing stock.

 

[Penelope]

First of all, the military is not the place to conduct social justice or be concerned about political correctness. The ultimate job of those who serve in the military is to fight wars, and war is not the place for anyone who is mentally, emotionally, or physically confused or in turmoil. Which many transgender people are according to several studies.

Why Trump Keeping Trans People From The Military Is A Good Decision

The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Says Otherwise

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

Sex changes are not effective, say researchers

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Meanings and political implications of "psychopathology" in a gender identity clinic: a report of 10 cases. - PubMed - NCBI

Then the military turns vets in people who commit suicide at 20 a day now. Either that or they do a piss poor job of assessing them.

 

[task0778]

First of all, the military is not the place to conduct social justice or be concerned about political correctness. The ultimate job of those who serve in the military is to fight wars, and war is not the place for anyone who is mentally, emotionally, or physically confused or in turmoil. Which many transgender people are according to several studies.

Why Trump Keeping Trans People From The Military Is A Good Decision

The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

Transgender Regret Is Real Even If The Media Says Otherwise

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

Sex changes are not effective, say researchers

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Meanings and political implications of "psychopathology" in a gender identity clinic: a report of 10 cases. - PubMed - NCBI

Then the military turns vets in people who commit suicide at 20 a day now. Either that or they do a piss poor job of assessing them.

Oh, like it's easy to tell when a person walks in the door to recognize him/her as a likely suicide down the road. And BTW suicide is a big problem throughout our society, in and out of the military. I CAN tell you that supervisors in all branches of the military services are trained to look for and identify people who show any signs that might indicate a problem. And it's true that many vets who have left the military do have mental issues including but not limited to suicides. Too bad the VA (a Single Payer System) sucks so bad at helping them. You think that's the military's fault, or is it some other organizations? It ain't like going to war is a walk in the park, never has been.

 

[Coyote]

Israel's IDF allows transgender people to serve: Israel's IDF Allows Transgender Soldiers . . . So Do 18 Other Countries

As do other countries.

Israel has a top notch military.

Why do people think less of our own?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Some want the military to look like this.

Well . It won't

except that guy was trying to get out of the service on a section 8 "crazy town" --LOL

 

[skye]

Some want the military to look like this.

Well . It won't

except that guy was trying to get out of the service on a section 8 "crazy town" --LOL

~~~~

 

[Coyote]

If a person meets all the tests and qualifications necessary to serve...why not?

 

[jwoodie]

If a person meets all the tests and qualifications necessary to serve...why not?

Just who are we talking about?

1. Someone who "identifies" with the opposite sex?

2. Someone who acts like or dresses like the opposite sex?

3. Does this involve desiring sexual relations with the same/opposite sex?

4. Someone who has had or wants a sex change operation and/or hormonal therapy?

5. Are these good candidates for the military?

6.What if they claim to be female but display male genitalia during their medical examination?

7. Do they get to pick whether they are treated as men or women?

8. What if they conceal their gender dysphoria until after they are inducted and then demand reassignment and/or medical procedures?

9. Should the military be obligated to accommodate their desires?

 

[task0778]

If a person meets all the tests and qualifications necessary to serve...why not?

May I respectfully direct you to Post #10, where I put a few reasons out there.

 

[Coyote]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

There is no indication that being transgender "isn't good" for the military or that transgender service members are disproportionately unfit for the job. Do you have any data to show that it is?

Other countries have no prohibitions against transgenders serving and don't seem to be adversely effected.

 

[Coyote]

If a person meets all the tests and qualifications necessary to serve...why not?

Just who are we talking about?

1. Someone who "identifies" with the opposite sex?

2. Someone who acts like or dresses like the opposite sex?

3. Does this involve desiring sexual relations with the same/opposite sex?

4. Someone who has had or wants a sex change operation and/or hormonal therapy?

5. Are these good candidates for the military?

6.What if they claim to be female but display male genitalia during their medical examination?

7. Do they get to pick whether they are treated as men or women?

8. What if they conceal their gender dysphoria until after they are inducted and then demand reassignment and/or medical procedures?

9. Should the military be obligated to accommodate their desires?

5. It's up to the army to make that decision isn't it? Presumably transgenders have been serving for years, just not openly. Before changing policies prior presidents asked the military to study it and how it might effect military readiness and then went by their recommendations.

6. What if? Depends on the policy.

7. Depends on the policy.

9. So? If they served honorably, they should be treated like any other member of the military needing medical services.

 

[task0778]

Not one person has come up with a theory on how transgenderism is good for the military. How does it increase readiness, are transgendered troops any more lethal than non transgendered troops. Where is the benefit. So far, all we've heard is how good it is for the sufferer. Well, giving in to mental illness always feels good to the sick person. A cutter never feels as good as when they are slicing themselves open. An overeater satisfies him or herself by eating. No one would possibly suggest that military readiness is enhanced by members cutting themselves. What makes this illness so special?

It isn't good for the military, but it is good for those who support political correctness no matter what the cost in money or lives. IOW, MFing politicians.

There is no indication that being transgender "isn't good" for the military or that transgender service members are disproportionately unfit for the job. Do you have any data to show that it is?

Other countries have no prohibitions against transgenders serving and don't seem to be adversely effected.

1. I don't care what other countries do, most of 'em are a little more into PC than we are. What works for them doesn't mean it'll work as well for us.

2. There are indeed studies that indicate transgenders might be disproportionately unfit for the job. These are not people you want to give weapons to and send them off to war. Guess you didn't read Post #10, so I'll re-post some of it:


The science is not settled on the effectiveness of gender transitioning, which is a good reason to resist forcing taxpayers to pay for what is quite likely to turn out to harm rather than help gender dysphoric people. Peer-reviewed studies have demonstrated a need for caution. After reassignment surgery, people still have excessive high rates of suicide attempts and unresolved mental disorders, indicating that changing genders is not effective in improving the lives of individuals who suffer with gender dysphoria.

In 2004, an article in The Guardian reported that a review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals found gender reassignment was not effective and in fact, many patients remain traumatized and suicidal afterwards. Chris Hyde, the director of the research facility, said: “There is a huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing. While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatized – often to the point of committing suicide.”

In 2009, researchers found that 90 percent of the last 10 patients at their gender clinic had at least one other significant form of psychopathology, a key factor in a person’s fitness for military service. They said, “This finding seems to be in marked contrast to the public, forensic, and professional rhetoric of many who care for transgendered adults.” The researchers also said that “Such clinical certainty would have to be based on carefully established sophisticated follow-up findings. These are lacking.”

Transgender People Have High Rates of Mental Illness

An endocrinologist in the early days of the sex change movement, Dr. Charles Ihlenfeld, administered cross-gender hormones to some 500 gender changers over six years. Based on his observations, Ihlenfeld sounded a warning in 1979 about hormone therapy and reassignment surgery: “There is too much unhappiness among people who have had the surgery,” he said. “Too many of them end as suicides.” Ihlenfeld retrained as a psychiatrist to be better equipped to treat the transgender population.