Tragedy At Virginia Tech Campus

[Dr Grump]

I view it as both.

Your BOR makes it a right...

 

[Vintij]

Have you people all gone mad? This gunman WAS a student!!! It was a student carrying a concealed weapon with no criminal background on campus!!! And you want to pass a bill that would allow this to be ok?? Your telling me that allowing this student and others to carry weapons legally, would have caused less deaths? As if students carry guns to classrooms right?

Let me answer the question for you, 33 people would have died if that bill was passed. You guys are completely ignorant to the fact that he chained the entrances to the engineering building. Meaning, that if you are correct, someone would have had to brought a gun into a classroom/lecture room at norrs hall that day? I thought you people had more common sense. I guess not, becuase trust me, the same amount of people would have died even if you allowed students to carry weapons and allow them to be heros. Do you know why? Because once again, the doors where chained, nobody could get in unless you where already in, and that means that a gun would literally be concealed in a backpack during class!!?!?!? Do you know how insane that is? I wonder how many people would vote to allow guns inside a classroom, not many sept you ofcourse.

 

[maineman]

I made my 'qualms' clear, also the exceptions that I noted. Problem with that is, that laws aren't specific like that. So it's a quandry.

so...if ten students at V Tech were armed with concealed weapons, we think that might have made the campus safer? What about if there were five thousand students armed with concealed weapons..... do we really think that would be even better? Friday night keggers at the frat house....everybody half in the bag and everyone packing. that sounds like no place I would want to send MY daughter. You cannot just arm ten or twenty of them.... who gets to chose? and if you allow any "law abiding student" to carry a concealed weapon, at some point, you will have a shitload of concealed weapons in the hands of college kids..... would you send YOUR child to such a school? Do you think they would be safer than at a campus where student possession of firearms on campus was NOT allowed?

 

[Annie]

so...if ten students at V Tech were armed with concealed weapons, we think that might have made the campus safer? What about if there were five thousand students armed with concealed weapons..... do we really think that would be even better? Friday night keggers at the frat house....everybody half in the bag and everyone packing. that sounds like no place I would want to send MY daughter. You cannot just arm ten or twenty of them.... who gets to chose? and if you allow any "law abiding student" to carry a concealed weapon, at some point, you will have a shitload of concealed weapons in the hands of college kids..... would you send YOUR child to such a school? Do you think they would be safer than at a campus where student possession of firearms on campus was NOT allowed?

My guess is at campuses in TX, MT, etc., there are plenty of concealed weapons, yet I haven't read of this type of incident. If there was one, odds are the perp would be taken down, before 30 some were killed.

Now, would I want my sons carrying weapons? No, well if the one goes into law enforcement or military, guess he will. Do I own a weapon, no.

Meanwhile, I've a bit of a headache, my son just brought home dinner. 24 is on in 1/2 hour. Maybe I'll catch you later.

 

[maineman]

bon appetit

 

[William Joyce]

There's a very small ratio of political-policy significance to this incredible tragedy. It's a horrible thing and not much you can say about it. Special legislation aimed at multiple-clip carrying lovelorn Asian men? Sorry, folks: big tragedies make bad policy.

Just say prayers for all those involved.

 

[hjmick]

This is interesting...

Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.article

April 16, 2007

BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus' security response, the source said.

The exits to the buildings where the shootings occurred were chained by the shooter, the source said.

Students complained that there were no public address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage - around the time the gunman struck again.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

"We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur," he said.

He defended the university’s handling of the tragedy: "We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it."

Steger said the university decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means of notifying members of the university, but with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out to everyone.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum would not say how many weapons the gunman carried. But a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was incomplete, said that the gunman had two pistols and multiple clips of ammunition.

The authorities have said they are pretty sure they know who the killer is, I guess they're waiting to make absolutely sure before announcing it. Now, if the above story is true, you have to wonder how the hell he got the guns. WTF? Can a person who is not a citizen just go out and buy a gun? I'd like to think not.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is interesting...

The authorities have said they are pretty sure they know who the killer is, I guess they're waiting to make absolutely sure before announcing it. Now, if the above story is true, you have to wonder how the hell he got the guns. WTF? Can a person who is not a citizen just go out and buy a gun? I'd like to think not.

So it appears the shooter is a commie from Shanghai. Isn't it just so cool that our Homeland Security allows visas to people from Red China, North Korea, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and other assorted countries that are known enemies of America?

Our international security is so great, wouldn't be surprised if the guy just packed his guns in via his student visa…. however, I'm sure the ACLU would have approved a foreign student's "right" to go out and buy a gun...after all, even illegals have "rights" in America...

 

[Emmett]

so...if ten students at V Tech were armed with concealed weapons, we think that might have made the campus safer? What about if there were five thousand students armed with concealed weapons..... do we really think that would be even better? Friday night keggers at the frat house....everybody half in the bag and everyone packing. that sounds like no place I would want to send MY daughter. You cannot just arm ten or twenty of them.... who gets to chose? and if you allow any "law abiding student" to carry a concealed weapon, at some point, you will have a shitload of concealed weapons in the hands of college kids..... would you send YOUR child to such a school? Do you think they would be safer than at a campus where student possession of firearms on campus was NOT allowed?

I would say there are 33 families who think so tonight.

 

[boedicca]

2) "what are we going to do about it." If you're of the #2 mindset, then this is will become a poltical issue, like it or not.

Color me cold - but there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent random individuals who are intent on commiting violent acts. There is no such thing as perfect security - even if one makes every concession to liberty in order to live in a police state.

All we can do is to mourn and offer condolences to the victims and their families.

EDIT: On second thought, we could actually make conceal carry permits more readily available. One person with a weapon could have taken the shooter out before he killed many of the victims.

 

[Emmett]

Had ONE person who was killed by this idiot had a gun, MAYBE 33 would not have died. Since noone did, 33 died.

We can beat this to death and I'm sure we will, guns are not the problem. Violent video games are. Kids didn't do this in the fifties. Oh I know, some lefty with a superior vocabulary to mine will get on here and spin it up to declare me to be wrong, BUT I'm NOT!

This shit is happening because of several factors, the moral decay of our society for one. Constant compromise of our standars which were so dear in America at one time. The divorce rate, video games and irresponsible parenting also go on the list. Anything goes nowadays. Homosexuality is accepted. Don't say "Merry Christmas", spank your kid and see how quick Family and Childrens services show up at your house, DON"T use an object if you do spank them, they will fear you and that may cause their personalities to be influenced (like minding their damn manners).

We are in an awful state people. Here is one for ya, this is NOT the worst massacre that will occur. It will happen again, again and again. Watch and see. The higher the divorce rate, the higher the rate of senseless acts committed by children, watch and see. Call me a simpleton if you wish but I'm right.

Lefties constantly compromising our conservative origins are hurting too. Sure, remove the guns, so this shit can happen all the time. Make it easier for perps to sue folks who hurt them while preventing a crime.

There are so many factors, it happened over time and it is now festering like a zit. Better take a closer look people. You lefties need to get a grip. Think about the results (long term) of your actions.

 

[Edward]

How many people would have died if the gunman would have encountered a well trained gunhandler in the first classroom!


A) 0

B) 0

c) 0

D) 1, the gunman

How many people would die in 90 different shootings across the country because more students have guns on campus? Answer:

A) 90

B) 180

C) 360

D) Don't know because Emmet hasn't gone psycho yet.

 

[Edward]

so Kathianne.... you are OK with students carrying concealed weapons in school?

Of course she is because she is insane. It doesn't matter that the number of shootings will go up so long as the number of dead in each instance is smaller because than she can feel safe when in reality college campuses will have become more dangerous because more insane bastards have guns.

 

[Edward]

so...if ten students at V Tech were armed with concealed weapons, we think that might have made the campus safer? What about if there were five thousand students armed with concealed weapons..... do we really think that would be even better? Friday night keggers at the frat house....everybody half in the bag and everyone packing. that sounds like no place I would want to send MY daughter. You cannot just arm ten or twenty of them.... who gets to chose? and if you allow any "law abiding student" to carry a concealed weapon, at some point, you will have a shitload of concealed weapons in the hands of college kids..... would you send YOUR child to such a school? Do you think they would be safer than at a campus where student possession of firearms on campus was NOT allowed?

And you ultimately put guns in the hands of people who are emotionally and mentally unstable. Here you have one guy who had a gun and who used it to kill 33 people. If you increase the number of people on campus who have guns to 5,000 and say only 1% of them were likely to do this kind of thing you have at least 50 people who are likely to go on a shooting rampage who have guns and when you take that number of people and place them in a campus setting and give them guns you ultimately increase the chance of a shooting by 50. If 5,000 students had guns than you are without going to find that there is a greater chance of campus violence. There simply isn't a way to argue that there will be less violence or less deaths instead all you can argue is that the seriousness of each separate incident is decreased yet the seriousness of the problem has increased and more people will die even though less will be killed as a result of one incident.

 

[Edward]

Color me cold - but there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent random individuals who are intent on commiting violent acts. There is no such thing as perfect security - even if one makes every concession to liberty in order to live in a police state.

All we can do is to mourn and offer condolences to the victims and their families.

EDIT: On second thought, we could actually make conceal carry permits more readily available. One person with a weapon could have taken the shooter out before he killed many of the victims.

And a thousand more insane people could kill a thousand more people before a thousand individuals take out the shooter. Wow! A perfect world with more deaths but a safer world where the only dead people are the shooter and his first victim. We must thank the guy who took out the shooter and say, "we are sorry that the bitch who was shot first died but it is too fucking bad since we don't care if a thousand more die so long as 33 don't die at one time." You are a sick bastard.

 

[Avatar4321]

I was simply relaying the President's thoughts as stated by his spokeswoman. His first thought was political... how's that my fault?

The President was responding to people already using the event to take away our second amendment rights.

 

[Avatar4321]

so Kathianne.... you are OK with students carrying concealed weapons in school?

What would be wrong if students or teachers or even campus security at least had proper gun training.

 

[Avatar4321]

so...if ten students at V Tech were armed with concealed weapons, we think that might have made the campus safer? What about if there were five thousand students armed with concealed weapons..... do we really think that would be even better? Friday night keggers at the frat house....everybody half in the bag and everyone packing. that sounds like no place I would want to send MY daughter. You cannot just arm ten or twenty of them.... who gets to chose? and if you allow any "law abiding student" to carry a concealed weapon, at some point, you will have a shitload of concealed weapons in the hands of college kids..... would you send YOUR child to such a school? Do you think they would be safer than at a campus where student possession of firearms on campus was NOT allowed?

If you teach your child to be mature and avoid keggers to begin with then you really wouldn't have anything to worry about would you?

 

[red states rule]

The President was responding to people already using the event to take away our second amendment rights.

The bodies are not even cold yet, but the anti gun nuts are starting to come out


'Permissive Gun Law' View Spreads, Why Not 'Permissive' Visa Laws? Killer on Student Visa
Posted by Warner Todd Huston on April 16, 2007 - 22:58.
What happened at Virginia Tech today is not a "tragedy" in the way that tragedy is usually defined as being a sudden accident. No, it was a cold-blooded crime. But, the criminal action at Virginia Tech had barely finished before news sources began their meme against guns, those "permissive laws" controlling them and the "easy access" to them. All are common phrases used to attack gun rights and this incident is being used as a platform to launch that line of attack everywhere. It's as if, before the last victim was even cold, every anti-gun advocate in the country hurriedly warmed up their cars to race to their local media source to call for more gun control. The debate over this issue is perfectly reasonable, of course, but that the MSM would use this crime as a springboard for their attacks on guns so soon after this incident had been perpetrated smacks of political opportunism.

CBS News gives us the claim that it is "much too easy to get guns in the state of Virginia." And they assure us this crime happened because "there's no gun registration, no mandatory waiting period to purchase weapons. The only major restriction: a limit of one gun purchase per month." And, the CBS report is echoed all across the news media.

Unsurprisingly, the foreign press immediately jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon, as well. In the UK for instance, The Independent said in one piece, "But it would be vain to hope that even so destructive a crime as this will cool the American ardour for guns."

Even Chicago's Mayor Daley was blasted all across local Chicago TV speaking out against guns within hours.

The stories like this are too numerous to chronicle and all woefully the same. (Brent Baker also has more: http://newsbusters.org/node/12075)

Things not considered

But, in the rush to the TV screens to clamor for more gun control, the media talking heads and every writer in the MSM will likely ignore several questions this crime raises.

Now, it has been revealed that the killer is a Chinese national here under the student visa program to study in the USA. So this fact raises a question that I'll bet you won't see talked about... why are student visas so easily handed out to foreign students from one of our ostensible enemies, China? Will there be a drumbeat to stop unbalanced foreign killers from entering the USA?

I doubt it.

Here is another point that I'll guarantee you won't see much discussion of: schools are supposedly "gun free zones" but this foreign killer easily brought a gun into the school and, with no opposition, deliberately killed over 30 people. Some "gun free zone" that is.

But, there is no escaping the common sense realization that if some of the other students there were armed, this murderer might not have been able to take out 30 some people without some response to his actions. At least some of the others would have been able to defend themselves instead of having that natural right to self-defense summarily removed by the fantasy of the school's "gun free zone" policy.

This disgusting, horrific action proves that if gun laws remove guns from the hands of sane, law abiding citizens, only lunatics and criminals will have them and only lunatics and murderers will be able to use them with no opposition.

Again, it is proper to have the national debate. But, so far, the MSM is not giving us debate, but anti-gun moralizing. Both sides of the issue are not getting their just due because the MSM has already chosen sides and done so before we even have all the facts about this case.

Many feel that, in the end, and in many ways, the "tragedy" here is in the anti-gun laws that prevented those students in Virginia Tech from defending themselves.

No, on second thought, that is a crime, too.

http://newsbusters.org/node/12077

 

[Bullypulpit]

How many people would have died if the gunman would have encountered a well trained gunhandler in the first classroom!


A) 0

B) 0

c) 0

D) 1, the gunman

An armed society IS a polite society. But carrying a weapon, be it blade, firearm or impact, and being trained in the appropriate use thereof , requires a level of responsibility which I find many adults, let alone college students, lack.

Carrying a weapon requires one to be responsible, not only for its use, but also preventing its misuse by others. Responsibility for the consequences of said use or misuse go without saying.