TPP

[kaz]

No one does, the text of the treaty isn't made public, hence the comments.

You can listen to elected officials say 'trust me' and feel fuzzy all you want. I don't.

We've spend trillions on defense and the military can't even protect US soil. We spent trillions on a war in Iraq and the country is split apart. Most of the treaties we've seen in the last 20 years have benefitted the wealthy few and screwed the working people of the US.

Trust us.

Never again.

Amen to that, politicians speak with forked tongue, let's open the ENTIRE treaty up to independent analysis and voter review and then we can talk about whether or not it makes sense to move forward.

in the mean time do you know whether you are for or against free trade between states of the united states and countries of the world???

I'm absolutely for free trade, but free trade doesn't involve allowing trading partners to completely distort comparative advantage by leveraging special interest driven "trade agreements" and I like IssacNewton do not trust anything that comes out of politicians mouths with respect to how good this treaty is for the United States and its citizens.

well it may bear close inspection. Japan will be able to compete now in light trucks in the USA which will kill the ford f150 but Japan is now supposed to be open to all of our cars so we should win big with 18,000 tariffs on our exports taken down. We can hardly lose since we are already the most open in the world.

Do you have a clue how many times these free trade deals were supposed to open their markets to our products and how many times we got fucked in the ass when the other countries continued to keep our products out?

How many?

US corporations do a shit load of overseas sales, so it can't be that frequently

 

[g5000]

Here's the thing.

If you are an American retailer, you want to take advantage of overseas laborers who work all day for the price of a cup of coffee. And so the Congressmen you own will praise the TPP.


If you are an American manufacturer, you hate the overseas laborers who work all day for the price of a cup of coffee. And so the Congressmen you own will damn the TPP.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Conservatives gave us the 2008 financial meltdown yet still try to blame someone else.

1) 100% stupid since our subject was free trade not meltdown
2) do you have the IQ to know whether you are for or against free trade
3) meltdown was cause by 132 liberal programs to get people into homes the free market said they could not afford, and so obviously not caused by conservatism.

See why we are positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Here's the thing.

If you are an American retailer, you want to take advantage of overseas laborers who work all day for the price of a cup of coffee. And so the Congressmen you own will praise the TPP.


If you are an American manufacturer, you hate the overseas laborers who work all day for the price of a cup of coffee. And so the Congressmen you own will damn the TPP.

perhaps true but an economy is ultimately designed to please the consumer. Imagine an economy that was designed to please the worker? It would be a formula for returning to the stone age.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world.

great great point!! And, America can only win from free trade agreements since it already has very few tariffs on imports; thus it will be other countries taking down 18,000 tariffs on our products that heretofore could not be exported.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

why not put your thinking cap on and try to tell us why workers are more important than consumers or why we should manage an economy to suit workers over consumers?

Because you are a naïve know nothing so what would be the point.

why not put your thinking cap on and try to tell us why workers are more important than consumers or why we should manage an economy to suit workers over consumers?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A point for calm:

The TPA and the TAA are done deals.

The TPP will require 51 votes in the Senate. There is supposed to be a 60 period for examination of the agreement prior to legislative action.

If.....upon inspection.....the deal is shit.....there is a chance that public opinion could get it shitcanned.

lol.. the public overwhelmingly opposed the ACA... and that got passed in the dead of night.

 

[dcraelin]

Like Nafta it off shores jobs that could be done by Americans. It sucks.

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world. They are taking jobs from the US and Canada. Whether we like it or not, many of these countries are catching up with us. If we choose to isolate ourselves, we will lose out on much of the big global party.

ANd its given them such a great economy down there that all the Mexicans cant wait to get the fuck out

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Like Nafta it off shores jobs that could be done by Americans. It sucks.

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world. They are taking jobs from the US and Canada. Whether we like it or not, many of these countries are catching up with us. If we choose to isolate ourselves, we will lose out on much of the big global party.

ANd its given them such a great economy down there that all the Mexicans cant wait to get the fuck out

the point is that the Mexican economy is far better than it would be without car manufacturing.

 

[NightFox]

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world.

great great point!! And, America can only win from free trade agreements since it already has very few tariffs on imports; thus it will be other countries taking down 18,000 tariffs on our products that heretofore could not be exported.

You might be missing the point of the "opposition" here... it's not that the idea of the TPP is a bad one (personally I think it's one that has merit), it's that the devil is in the details and those details are largely being kept hidden. We know how our system works; as soon as the politicians start putting pen to paper all the special interests come running for their little carve outs. Personally I want to know what those carve outs are UP FRONT, let the habitual liars in Washington put all the cards on the table and then explain and persuade on each and every point to the American People, if the deal is as good as they say it is then that should not be a problem for 'em.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

it's that the devil is in the details .

I think we know the details from other free trade agreements when the liberals were also looking for excuses to protect and cripple American industry out of ignorance and out of a desire to get labor's vote.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

TPP? TeePee? Tepee?

 

[NightFox]

it's that the devil is in the details .

I think we know the details from other free trade agreements when the liberals were also looking for excuses to protect and cripple American industry out of ignorance and out of a desire to get labor's vote.

I agree, the excuse is that it says "Free Trade" on the cover, the demagogues on the left don't really care what the details are, that being said I don't think it's safe to assume that because past agreements contained XYZ that this agreement is the same, actually I'd want some lessons learned from past agreements so we don't keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

it's that the devil is in the details .

I think we know the details from other free trade agreements when the liberals were also looking for excuses to protect and cripple American industry out of ignorance and out of a desire to get labor's vote.

I agree, the excuse is that it says "Free Trade" on the cover, the demagogues on the left don't really care what the details are, that being said I don't think it's safe to assume that because past agreements contained XYZ that this agreement is the same, actually I'd want some lessons learned from past agreements so we don't keep repeating the same mistakes.

what were the mistakes of the past agreements?

 

[NightFox]

it's that the devil is in the details .

I think we know the details from other free trade agreements when the liberals were also looking for excuses to protect and cripple American industry out of ignorance and out of a desire to get labor's vote.

I agree, the excuse is that it says "Free Trade" on the cover, the demagogues on the left don't really care what the details are, that being said I don't think it's safe to assume that because past agreements contained XYZ that this agreement is the same, actually I'd want some lessons learned from past agreements so we don't keep repeating the same mistakes.

what were the mistakes of the past agreements?

Just off the top of my head, we gave too much away, too quickly to Mexico in NAFTA in the hopes that increased trade would lift their economy to the point that they'd be on a purchasing par with the Western Europeans (i.e. our post WW II methodology) didn't work out that way, we ended up with a lot of manufacturing chasing low wages without much positive return on our side of the border to show for it (other than a $60+ billion dollar trade deficit).

IMHO Mexico's full inclusion in NAFTA should have been much more gradual and contingent upon very specific objectives (such as cleaning up their corrupt mess of a government and making inroads into the piss, poor state of their workforce education).

So basically the lesson learned from that should be caution and a gradual approach along with carrots and sticks (where warranted).

 

[auditor0007]

Like Nafta it off shores jobs that could be done by Americans. It sucks.

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world. They are taking jobs from the US and Canada. Whether we like it or not, many of these countries are catching up with us. If we choose to isolate ourselves, we will lose out on much of the big global party.

ANd its given them such a great economy down there that all the Mexicans cant wait to get the fuck out

Actually, you are wrong about that. As Marco Rubio said in the first debate, there are very few Mexicans coming to the US illegally these days. The ones coming illegally are from Central American countries. They are coming through Mexico to get to the US.

 

[g5000]

TPP? TeePee? Tepee?

I see the bumper sticker bandwidth intellects have joined the conversation.

 

[gipper]

Bernie doesn't like it...nor does the Donald...
“Wall Street has won again”: Bernie Sanders torches Trans-Pacific Partnership
In a blistering state, the presidential hopeful warns the deal will hurt consumers and cost Americans jobs
“Wall Street has won again”: Bernie Sanders torches Trans-Pacific Partnership - Salon.com

Why did BO and now Biden do this? They went against their union buddies and the American people...yet more proof they are owned by the 1%.

Biden backing Asia trade pact despite union opposition
Latest local news from San Luis Obispo, CA | The Tribune

 

[bedowin62]

Bernie doesn't like it...nor does the Donald...
“Wall Street has won again”: Bernie Sanders torches Trans-Pacific Partnership
In a blistering state, the presidential hopeful warns the deal will hurt consumers and cost Americans jobs
“Wall Street has won again”: Bernie Sanders torches Trans-Pacific Partnership - Salon.com

Why did BO and now Biden do this? They went against their union buddies and the American people...yet more proof they are owned by the 1%.

Biden backing Asia trade pact despite union opposition
Latest local news from San Luis Obispo, CA | The Tribune

Yup and it's hilarious. Watch the same left-wing losers still ranting about Reagan and Bush overlook the Jackass Party's role in this trade agreement.

 

[dcraelin]

Like Nafta it off shores jobs that could be done by Americans. It sucks.

Mexico is taking car manufacturing jobs out of the US, not so much because they offer lower labor costs but because they have free trade agreements with more countries than any other country in the world. They are taking jobs from the US and Canada. Whether we like it or not, many of these countries are catching up with us. If we choose to isolate ourselves, we will lose out on much of the big global party.

ANd its given them such a great economy down there that all the Mexicans cant wait to get the fuck out

Actually, you are wrong about that. As Marco Rubio said in the first debate, there are very few Mexicans coming to the US illegally these days. The ones coming illegally are from Central American countries. They are coming through Mexico to get to the US.

I would say there are fewer, mainly because OUR economy doesnt look so good either.....we're right behind the idiot Mexicans in stupid trade pacts.

BTW Marco Rubio is an establishment suck-up...I dont trust a word out of his mouth.