Tough on crime?

[watermark]

It's like something out of a far right fantasy land.

Blame it on habitual offenders.

Then illegals.

Then drugs.



I can't find a good reason, besides conservatives. I don't know exactly what all these other nations are doing to keep crime so much lower than ours, but I know I'd like to try that, instead of more of the same.

 

[Taomon]

Just curious who here feels we should be tough on crime, and enforce the laws.

And if those same people feel that way about international law - and getting tough on those crimes as well?

If we become tough on international law, we will be arresting ourselves.

 

[AllieBaba]

Here's a link:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm
Evidence of the huge upsurge in Hispanic inmates:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm

Now federal prisons have a few drug lords, but still only a little more than half. But federal prisons are specifically meant to hold federal offenders, so it makes sense that they'll have their fair share of drug runners.
"Federal prisons were estimated to hold 176,268 sentenced inmates as of Sept. 30, 2006. Of these, 16,507 were incarcerated for violent offenses, including 2,923 for homicide, 9,645 for robbery, and 3,939 for other violent crimes. In addition, 10,015 inmates were serving time for property crimes, including 519 for burglary, 6,437 for fraud, and 3,059 for other property offenses. A total of 93,751 were incarcerated for drug offenses. Also, 54,336 were incarcerated for public-order offenses, incluging 19,496 for immigration offenses and 24,298 for weapons offenses.

Source: Sabol, William J., PhD, Couture, Heather, and Harrison, Paige M., Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2006 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, December 2007), NCJ219416, p. 26, Appendix Table 13."
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/prison.htm

So while I can provide all sorts of boring stuff for you to beat your head against, the fact is..my anecdotal evidence is right on the money.

People generally end up in prison not for dealing, but for using..and our prisons are swelling with illegals.

 

[Taomon]

Given our crime rates, apparently we aren't tough enough.

Do you think prisons are the answer, education, or a paradigm change?

 

[AllieBaba]

I think a combination of prison and the end of tolerance for dysfunction in general is the answer.

 

[Taomon]

I think a combination of prison and the end of tolerance for dysfunction in general is the answer.

Wow, and how do you suppose we can implement such a thing as the end of tolerance for dysfunction?

 

[AllieBaba]

Let's see....we could get rid of abortion, sink people into prison forever if they kill or hurt a child...regardless of whether or not they were under the influence at the time. Stop funding drug addiction, child sexual activity and single parent families...

Sound like a start on dysfunction?

 

[Gunny]

Exactly. America really misses the big picture. We have humongous penalties for even minor crimes and it does nothing to deter crime... what does that tell you? Change the approach. Don't be insane and try more of what's clearly not working.

Pray tell what do you suggest? Asking them not to do it again? Our laws are tough on crime. The laws are not enforced evenly across the board, and max sentences not handed out.

Our crime rate is due to society making excuses for criminals and letting them off the hook instead of hammering criminals for their crimes. As long as crime pays, the punishment will never be a deterent, nor does it need to be.

It needs to be punsihment and it needs to hurt bad enough to get the attention of those being punished.

 

[AllieBaba]

And get rid of the devices which support criminal behavior and the environment which it springs from.

That means welfare and abortion.

 

[Taomon]

Let's see....we could get rid of abortion, sink people into prison forever if they kill or hurt a child...regardless of whether or not they were under the influence at the time. Stop funding drug addiction, child sexual activity and single parent families...

Sound like a start on dysfunction?

Sounds like someone who is removed from the problem. Ever live in a ghetto? Ever live in poverty? Been homeless? Hungry?

End abortion? That is not a solution to crime stupid. All those kids who will be born but are unwanted...they become sociopaths and worse.

We need social programs to care for the unwanted so they can become productive members of society.

End welfare? What about the people who need it and have no other means of support (elderly, disabled, etc)? Because you feel that a few bad eggs take advantage of welfare (and there are some who do) we must cut all people off? What happens to people that need it then?

They turn to crime to survive. Your solutions cause more crime.

 

[Gunny]

Sounds like someone who is removed from the problem. Ever live in a ghetto? Ever live in poverty? Been homeless? Hungry?

Have you? Your heart bleeding for people in those circumstances does not make you any more experienced than someone who doesn't believe they are entitled to be supported on the backs of tax payers.

I also smell another of your double standards. When you start preaching about "what troops think," can I ask YOU the same questions?

When you start preaching about what victims of violent crime should think can I ask YOU the sme questions then?

End abortion? That is not a solution to crime stupid. All those kids who will be born but are unwanted...they become sociopaths and worse.

We need social programs to care for the unwanted so they can become productive members of society.

We need to end unwanted pregnancies by teaching responsible behavior to society, and that people are indeed accountable for their actions.

End welfare? What about the people who need it and have no other means of support (elderly, disabled, etc)? Because you feel that a few bad eggs take advantage of welfare (and there are some who do) we must cut all people off? What happens to people that need it then?

The elderly are supported by social security and whatever retirement plans they have and are ineligible for welfare.

Those truly in need should at least be provided shelter, food, clothing and basic medical care. Nothing more. Your appeal to emotion leaves out the rampant fraud within the system than no one does anything about.

But when push comes to shove and you are taking out of my mouth to feed your cause via legislation rather than asking, then you're a fascist.

They turn to crime to survive. Your solutions cause more crime.

Completely illogical conclusion.

 

[Taomon]

Have you? Your heart bleeding for people in those circumstances does not make you any more experienced than someone who doesn't believe they are entitled to be supported on the backs of tax payers.

Yes I have.

 

[Taomon]

We need to end unwanted pregnancies by teaching responsible behavior to society, and that people are indeed accountable for their actions.

Education is the most important solution to any issue.

The elderly are supported by social security and whatever retirement plans they have and are ineligible for welfare.

Those truly in need should at least be provided shelter, food, clothing and basic medical care. Nothing more. Your appeal to emotion leaves out the rampant fraud within the system than no one does anything about.

Social Security is not enough to live on. What about people who could not afford to save or had their saving stolen (Enron, S&L Scandal)?

And tell me about the rampant fraud. What is the exact statistic of people who actually need assistance compared to how many people are taking advantage of it?

Now you have to back up your claim. You said, now prove it.

But when push comes to shove and you are taking out of my mouth to feed your cause via legislation rather than asking, then you're a fascist.

Completely illogical conclusion.

Gunny, you are so myopic. We pay taxes regardless, that money is given to industries and hostile despots & regimes via subsidies and Help Packages/Payoffs.

Rather than send the money to people who don't deserve it (like Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Pakistan and so on) why not fund these programs to either provide basics of survival or make them affordable so everyone can afford to pay for food, clothing, shelter, insurance and so on?

I'm a fascist? Because I care about my fellow Americans? You seem to only care about people who belong to specific ideologies. You are very hypocritical.