Torture?

[The Rabbi]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

How dare you interject good sense into this thread! I banish you to Lib Re-Education Camp immediately.

 

[rightwinger]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

Actually, a very informative post Patek!

Until you tried to slip in your notion of "legal waterboarding"
Unfortunately, waterboarding is acknowledged worldwide as a form of torture, it is against the Geneva Convention and other combatants have actually been prosecuted by the US for war crimes for engaging in it.
More importantly, it destroys the once proud reputation of the US for humanely treating its prisoners. We once held the moral high ground in expecting other nations to treat Americans humanely....that is now gone

Just because Dick Cheney says its not torture doesn't make it so

 

[strollingbones]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

o bullshit most information gained by this is simply "old information" you are tortuing people now to get info you may or may not be able to confirm....still just torture...in this day of info...by drones etc....do we really need to resort to the middle age methods???

 

[The Rabbi]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

Actually, a very informative post Patek!

Until you tried to slip in your notion of "legal waterboarding"
Unfortunately, waterboarding is acknowledged worldwide as a form of torture, it is against the Geneva Convention and other combatants have actually been prosecuted by the US for war crimes for engaging in it.
More importantly, it destroys the once proud reputation of the US for humanely treating its prisoners. We once held the moral high ground in expecting other nations to treat Americans humanely....that is now gone

Just because Dick Cheney says its not torture doesn't make it so

And unfortunately for you the terrorists don't come under the protections of the Geneva Convention. In fact they are themselves violators of that convention.
But what could I have expected from you?

 

[rightwinger]

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

Actually, a very informative post Patek!

Until you tried to slip in your notion of "legal waterboarding"
Unfortunately, waterboarding is acknowledged worldwide as a form of torture, it is against the Geneva Convention and other combatants have actually been prosecuted by the US for war crimes for engaging in it.
More importantly, it destroys the once proud reputation of the US for humanely treating its prisoners. We once held the moral high ground in expecting other nations to treat Americans humanely....that is now gone

Just because Dick Cheney says its not torture doesn't make it so

And unfortunately for you the terrorists don't come under the protections of the Geneva Convention. In fact they are themselves violators of that convention.
But what could I have expected from you?

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually, a very informative post Patek!

Until you tried to slip in your notion of "legal waterboarding"
Unfortunately, waterboarding is acknowledged worldwide as a form of torture, it is against the Geneva Convention and other combatants have actually been prosecuted by the US for war crimes for engaging in it.
More importantly, it destroys the once proud reputation of the US for humanely treating its prisoners. We once held the moral high ground in expecting other nations to treat Americans humanely....that is now gone

Just because Dick Cheney says its not torture doesn't make it so

And unfortunately for you the terrorists don't come under the protections of the Geneva Convention. In fact they are themselves violators of that convention.
But what could I have expected from you?

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

Murderers and rapists are protected by the Constitution. Terrorists are not.
Yes, my position is that any method that will elicit information to save American lives is valid against people who do not adhere to the laws of warfare.

 

[rightwinger]

And unfortunately for you the terrorists don't come under the protections of the Geneva Convention. In fact they are themselves violators of that convention.
But what could I have expected from you?

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

Murderers and rapists are protected by the Constitution. Terrorists are not.
Yes, my position is that any method that will elicit information to save American lives is valid against people who do not adhere to the laws of warfare.

Confirming my suspicions

Thank you

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

Actually, a very informative post Patek!

Until you tried to slip in your notion of "legal waterboarding"
Unfortunately, waterboarding is acknowledged worldwide as a form of torture, it is against the Geneva Convention and other combatants have actually been prosecuted by the US for war crimes for engaging in it.
More importantly, it destroys the once proud reputation of the US for humanely treating its prisoners. We once held the moral high ground in expecting other nations to treat Americans humanely....that is now gone

Just because Dick Cheney says its not torture doesn't make it so

Why thank you RDubya....but the simple fact you have overlooked is this:
Waterboarding was perfectly LEGAL up until laws began to be passed saying it can NO LONGER be used as an interrogstion method...in 2006 I believe. No charges have been filed against anyone relating to any interrogation method used under the Bush Administration's War on Terror......and none ever will.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

What is torture once you recognise that it gives faulty and sometimes misleading info? What is it then? It is VENGENCE!! It is the dark human NEED to hurt someone who has hurt THEM. There is nothing nobel about it. There is nothing useful about it it is just wnating to HURT other people who have hurt you.

What the liberals fail to realize is this simple concept.

When conducting intel operations against the enemy you employ many different "methods" and employ many "sources". You obtain factual information from many many sources. When interrogating enemy prisoners you already know much of the picture but you may lack a few important details that would enable you to halt, infiltrate or destroy a potential enemy or operation that is being planned against you. This is where the questioning of enemy prisoners begins. You start with something you know the enemy prisoner knows. When he resists, you apply legal interrogation methods which included waterboarding etc. to get him to reveal information you already know. Then you begin with a mix of things you know and don't know...always mixing it up and questioning many other enemy prisoners. This is the method employed against KSM. The FACTUAL information gleened from his interrogation was incalculable in it's value to the intelligence community and in fact DID prevent other terrorist attacks.

So you see....the liberal talking point that torture produces no information or false information is PURE HOGWASH!!!

o bullshit most information gained by this is simply "old information" you are tortuing people now to get info you may or may not be able to confirm....still just torture...in this day of info...by drones etc....do we really need to resort to the middle age methods???

This is what happened when the CIA went from HumInt to SatInt.....and you're right. Much of the information is already known....but when the normal methods of eavesdropping on terrorist planners are comprimised, by the New York Times I might add, you must resort to alternative methods. Those methods are not always pleasant. As long as the interrogation methods are approved of by the Congress and implemented with their full knowledge then there is no legal recourse for people who disagree with said methods.

 

[PixieStix]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJygJQNQHkw]YouTube - Torture and Gitmo! (Featuring Stevens Beheading)[/ame]

 

[Cold Fusion38]

And unfortunately for you the terrorists don't come under the protections of the Geneva Convention. In fact they are themselves violators of that convention.
But what could I have expected from you?

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

Murderers and rapists are protected by the Constitution. Terrorists are not.
Yes, my position is that any method that will elicit information to save American lives is valid against people who do not adhere to the laws of warfare.

Didn't we declare a "WAR ON DRUGS"? If so then I guess since drug dealers don't wear UNIFORMS then they have no RIGHT to be treated humanly? What a stupid fucking argument you put forth.

 

[eagleseven]

...is fun!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

How about the "WAR" on poverty? I guess the homeless should have no rights.

 

[rightwinger]

How about the "WAR" on poverty? I guess the homeless should have no rights.

Torture him and find out where he hides his cans

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Good point we could PAY for the "WAR" on poverty by recycling all the seized cans. We will be greeted as LIBERATORS. They have terrorist links, yeah that's the ticket.

 

[Intense]

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

Murderers and rapists are protected by the Constitution. Terrorists are not.
Yes, my position is that any method that will elicit information to save American lives is valid against people who do not adhere to the laws of warfare.

Didn't we declare a "WAR ON DRUGS"? If so then I guess since drug dealers don't wear UNIFORMS then they have no RIGHT to be treated humanly? What a stupid fucking argument you put forth.

The details of the Geneva Convention were pretty stupid too... huh.

 

[Intense]

How about the "WAR" on poverty? I guess the homeless should have no rights.

You should have no Rights. You should be water boarded until you shut up. ... Only Kidding Pretty lame argument though.

 

[The Rabbi]

And neither do murderers and rapists and yet we are not allowed to torture them either. So your position is that anyone labeled as a terrorist can be tortured anyway the Rabi chooses?

Murderers and rapists are protected by the Constitution. Terrorists are not.
Yes, my position is that any method that will elicit information to save American lives is valid against people who do not adhere to the laws of warfare.

Didn't we declare a "WAR ON DRUGS"? If so then I guess since drug dealers don't wear UNIFORMS then they have no RIGHT to be treated humanly? What a stupid fucking argument you put forth.

We could declare a war on stupidity. You'd be the first casualty.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Sorry Intense I keep forgetting to put the smilely face at the end of posts that are meant to be funny.

 

[JW Frogen]

Personally, I am generally against Torture, with a really high bench mark, I would leave room for exception. That said, We are among the most humane on the planet, neither of which has much, if any, on the conduct of our adversaries in war.

You are right, the US may be a nation that should not torture because it violates her ideals but do not expect that to have any effect on much of the rest of the world, those who the US is likely to be opposing.


When I was in Bosnia there were Serb paramilitaries who tortured Bosnian Muslims and Croats, mostly civlians, not to extract any information but just for the "fun" of it.

War has it's own realities, Locke's social bubble pops and one finds themself totally in the world of Hobbes, all against all.

That the US maintains a sense of dignity and justice in that 'all against all' more often than not is to her credit, but don't expect to see it from her enemies ever.