Toro! Or Others Seriously Keyed Into Economics

[Trajan]

Don't disagree with Toro that the tech bubble poisoned the growth of investment. I was at ground zero in Silicon Valley and realized that it was unsustainable AS CONFIGURED.

There was too much exhuberance for "soft goods", sales gimmicks, and the internet -- and not enough on HARD technology, new high tech products, and seeding of new industries in automation, materials, ect. This was spurred on by the technically illiterate political dupes (no names please) selling the idea that the "information superhiway" would be the only needed counterbalance to shedding manufacturing jobs..

That was the right "feeling", but the wrong execution. Money went to the EASY stuff, like selling dog food over the internet. But it didn't go to the long term birthing of new industries that we desperately need for a better MODERN american workforce.

The message needs to be NEW industries that the other 30 Bill people in this world can't tackle. NOT this hokey "green jobs" weatherstipping doors and blowing attic insulation..

paul ottelini said it best, and I paraphrase;' at this rate the next big thing, won't be happening here'....

 

[flacaltenn]

Trajan:

paul ottelini said it best, and I paraphrase;' at this rate the next big thing, won't be happening here'....

Nailed it.. That's where the jobs debate needs to be focused. Not on just ONE "next big thing" (like Green jobs, or internet superhiway) but ALL the potential seedlings of new industries.. Every time the Govt PICKS one for us and throws all it's weight and OUR CASH behind it -- the chances of that quote becoming real skyrocket..

 

[dilloduck]

Investing in America is simply a lousy bet right now and we're no longer the only game in town.

 

[flacaltenn]

I have very few clients who WANT to move their R&D to China. They know that if that happens, it's inevitable that they are creating their own demise. So there is STILL a good chance that if we can get the right conditions -- we WILL continue to innovate in this country.

If we cut off the corporate subsidy feeding tube and make them WORK for the money again by creating NEW products -- there's hope..

 

[Trajan]

Investing in America is simply a lousy bet right now and we're no longer the only game in town.

I have very few clients who WANT to move their R&D to China. They know that if that happens, it's inevitable that they are creating their own demise. So there is STILL a good chance that if we can get the right conditions -- we WILL continue to innovate in this country.

If we cut off the corporate subsidy feeding tube and make them WORK for the money again by creating NEW products -- there's hope..

I think you are both right, in that Dilloduck has point where in by insane restrictions on H-1B visas we rob ourselves of intellectual capital thats wants to stay here. The next big thing may be made/discovered in India becasue the person whom received their start or education etc. here, then had to leave ....its stupid. we'll flood ourselves with cheap sorry but its the truth, uneducated labor from the south but the educated, intellectual inventiveness, drivers of new tech., products etc....we limit that to 65k a year...please.

So even if we have that person right here with the next big thing, he she may not be here to do it......

as flacaltenn alludes, I'll use the Otellini example who, for those not aware is the CEO of Intel- they are building out a new Fab in Chandler ( Az) and a huge new addition to their R&D facility in Oregon.

Intel made a decision decades ago regards production of tier one technology- not to send it offshore; they will build and operate chip-set Assembly and whats called sort and testing, BUT production of the latest greatest aside from a few small plants in Ireland and Israel, stays here.

They knew and know there is a trade off, eventually that tech. trickles down and out and they will lose their ability to mass produce the cutting edge maintaining the premiums to keep ahead and keep market share, in short- they won't self dilute in the long run.

 

[Sallow]

I agree with the OP. It is also proof that tax cuts do not spur job growth.

Under better circumstances, tax cuts leave more money in the hands of investors, who invest it and grow the economy which leads to job growth.

That almost never happens.

 

[Trajan]

I agree with the OP. It is also proof that tax cuts do not spur job growth.

Under better circumstances, tax cuts leave more money in the hands of investors, who invest it and grow the economy which leads to job growth.

That almost never happens.

really? so can you provide some examples of it happening, and then provide some of it not happening?

 

[Cuyo]

Under better circumstances, tax cuts leave more money in the hands of investors, who invest it and grow the economy which leads to job growth.

That almost never happens.

really? so can you provide some examples of it happening, and then provide some of it not happening?

Wouldn't the current high UE despite historically low taxes constitute it 'not happening?'

 

[Truthmatters]

Investing in America is simply a lousy bet right now and we're no longer the only game in town.

Where was the last flight to safe investments placed when the stock market dipped?

 

[Trajan]

That almost never happens.

really? so can you provide some examples of it happening, and then provide some of it not happening?

Wouldn't the current high UE despite historically low taxes constitute it 'not happening?'

to an extent, yes, and?

 

[Cuyo]

really? so can you provide some examples of it happening, and then provide some of it not happening?

Wouldn't the current high UE despite historically low taxes constitute it 'not happening?'

to an extent, yes, and?

No, that's all, I didn't have another one in the chamber.

So if that serves as evidence that high taxes are not the problem, why do we continue to hear so much about cutting taxes? Particularly when we need the money so bad.

 

[Trajan]

Wouldn't the current high UE despite historically low taxes constitute it 'not happening?'

to an extent, yes, and?

No, that's all, I didn't have another one in the chamber.

So if that serves as evidence that high taxes are not the problem, why do we continue to hear so much about cutting taxes? Particularly when we need the money so bad.

and you don't have any examples of when it worked....?

and taxes are just not taxes, you know this. and this historically lowest tax rates is BS too, you know that right?

 

[Cuyo]

to an extent, yes, and?

No, that's all, I didn't have another one in the chamber.

So if that serves as evidence that high taxes are not the problem, why do we continue to hear so much about cutting taxes? Particularly when we need the money so bad.

and you don't have any examples of when it worked....?

and taxes are just not taxes, you know this. and this historically lowest tax rates is BS too, you know that right?

I didn't say lowest. Just low.

Without having been alive at the time nor tenaciously studying the issue, I'd say it worked in 1964, when we were talking about abandoning a crushing 90%.