Top Democrat businessman : “Every Business Guy I Know Is Frightened Of Obama

[midcan5]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.....

Lord, republicans are the biggest scaredy-cats on the face of the earth, no wonder they love Homeland security and they are all draft dodgers. Not one of the scaredy-cats has answered how a president, who for religious reasons, couldn't serve the nation, now pretends he's super hawk and will lead the military. Will he lead them to church?

_

 

[LilOlLady]

He's a socialist but the racist media won't say it because he's black. Obozo has no business sense and can't even add up a column of numbers. OTOH romney is a very successful businessman.

Then who the fuck has been saying it for the past 5 years if not racist media adn other racists? Because he is BLACK? Romney success came by corrupt and lying as a car salesman. Businessmen has no business running the government because it cannot be run like a business and if you do it is run like Castro and Chevez.



Is Mitt Romney an example of corrupt capitalism?

Is Mitt Romney an example of corrupt capitalism?

 

[zeke]

When you look small business owners in the face and tell them they did not build their business but the government did it for them, how pro-business can you be?

You know what? That is such a bull shit position. My friend that runs a roofing business, guess what. He relies on roads to get shingles to the homes he is roofing. He requires roads and bridges so that his roofing crews can get to work.

You want to know how many fuking roads and bridges he has built? NOT A FUKING ONE.
But without roads and bridges, he can't get material and employees to the job sites.

You want to know who did build those roads and bridges? The fuking guvmint that YOU claim doesn't do anything to help build a business.

You are stupid.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Obama makes no bones about it. He wants my company and my industry out of business.
Am I afraid? Hell no. I'm angry.

Angry at this country for voting him President in the first place, and for insisting on giving him another 4 years.

He's a wunderkind who was swept up by desperately inept and unintelligent voters yearning for an easy way out of the realities of life, ready to punch the easy ticket out of responsibilities and obligations.

Our struggles for freedom and democracy didn't end 200 years ago. It's a continuous fight, and we've lost sight of it. Lost sight of the struggle and the fight for the day-to-day decorum that defines our nation.

Obama has set us back, and his request for another 4 years is rooted in his planned effort to reduce our country to a shell of its former self.

From this post & your signature, I expect you work in the oil & gas industry? Yikes...yep, there's a target on you.

 

[zeke]

.

In the best order I can come up with, my business owner clients are afraid of:

1. An economy that is essentially dead in the water
2. Finding quality employees who are dependable and actually want to work, even with unemployment as high as it is
3. Uncertainties over upcoming regulation/taxation, and the costs they'll incur
4. Uncertainties over upcoming health care costs

And those concerns are on top of the regular concerns business owners have, and I'm not going to list those 30 or 40.

My business owner clients generally look like they've been hit by a freakin' truck.

.

OK Mac, I was a little hard on you. So let me ask you this; are you saying that these businessmen and women you are speaking with are telling you that as soon as Obama is out of the WH, that they will crank up production and increase hiring? Because all of a sudden they will have all these concerns resolved?

How does that work Mac? How is is that just because Obama care is rejected, how do they then know what future health care costs will be?

If they need hard working educated employees, what does that have to do with any President? Do Presidents train workers now?

Can your business people remember almost 4 yeara ago, when the economy really was dead? Or do they have short term memory loss and think things were great when Obama was elected? And have only gotten worse since his election. If that is what they claim, you are speaking with a partisan hack. Take what they say with the ole grain of salt because they have an agenda that is not connected to their business.

And if these business owners are making a million a year and they want to claim that they can't increase hiring because they might have to pay a little more taxes, that is bull shit. And who cares if the millioniares pay more.

And if these small business owners are making less than 250k (like most) they have nothing to fear about taxes. And they have been told that repeatedly. So why are they claiming that taxes are the problem? Partisan would explain that idea.

I don't doubt that people have told you what you say they have. I do wonder why you don't question what they tell you with a more critical opinion of their claims.

Unless you have something to gain by listening and believing what they tell you. Which may be the case if you are a business consultant. You are making a living off these people. Right?

 

[Mac1958]

OK Mac, I was a little hard on you. So let me ask you this; are you saying that these businessmen and women you are speaking with are telling you that as soon as Obama is out of the WH, that they will crank up production and increase hiring? Because all of a sudden they will have all these concerns resolved?

How does that work Mac? How is is that just because Obama care is rejected, how do they then know what future health care costs will be?

If they need hard working educated employees, what does that have to do with any President? Do Presidents train workers now?

Can your business people remember almost 4 yeara ago, when the economy really was dead? Or do they have short term memory loss and think things were great when Obama was elected? And have only gotten worse since his election. If that is what they claim, you are speaking with a partisan hack. Take what they say with the ole grain of salt because they have an agenda that is not connected to their business.

And if these business owners are making a million a year and they want to claim that they can't increase hiring because they might have to pay a little more taxes, that is bull shit. And who cares if the millioniares pay more.

And if these small business owners are making less than 250k (like most) they have nothing to fear about taxes. And they have been told that repeatedly. So why are they claiming that taxes are the problem? Partisan would explain that idea.

I don't doubt that people have told you what you say they have. I do wonder why you don't question what they tell you with a more critical opinion of their claims.

Unless you have something to gain by listening and believing what they tell you. Which may be the case if you are a business consultant. You are making a living off these people. Right?

You're making a long list of incorrect assumptions. I mean a LONG list.

First, Zeke, I make an effort to choose my words carefully. Secondly, you're taking what you think I'm saying and running about 50 miles with it, putting words in my mouth, creating straw men. In the big picture, you're taking my post as a direct attack on Obama and the Democrats. On one hand, I can understand that given the simplistic, binary way partisans look at everything. But on the other, the more assumptions you make the more wrong you become.

I'll take this conversation as long as you would like. But I would request that you read and process what I actually said without putting simplistic partisan spin and assumptions into it. To wit:

1. "An economy that is essentially dead in the water": I invite you to indicate where I'm putting the blame for this. If you were to actually ask me about the economy, as a financial advisor my response would be "we're struggling to recover from a financial meltdown of historic depth, breadth and complexity. I have my opinions on how we got here, but I absolutely and freely admit that I simply don't know how to best get us out of this, and most in my profession are in the same boat." So if you want to continue your fantasy that I'm blaming Obama for this condition, fine, but you're having to create that illusion on your own.

2. "Finding quality employees who are dependable and actually want to work, even with unemployment as high as it is": Again, I'm afraid I don't know where you see I'm blaming Obama for this. If you were to actually ask me about why this is happening, I would tell you that I think it's a much cultural as anything else. But one thing I would not do is say it's all Obama's fault. This topic alone could fill a long thread. But again, you have created a fantasy, not reality based on something I actually said.

3. "Uncertainties over upcoming regulation/taxation, and the costs they'll incur": Yes, this is absolutely true. I have many times argued that "more" regulation does not equate to "better" regulation, and I would be happy to discuss this in as much depth as you would like. But I would first request that you actually read the first word in that sentence without being defensive about Obama: Uncertainties. My best guess is that once the elections have mercifully passed, many or most of those uncertainties will no longer exist, both for business people and investors. I'm hopeful that the passing of those uncertainties will grease the skids a bit. And if you had taken the time to process this possibility before immediately getting defensive about Obama, you may have realized this.

4. "Uncertainties over upcoming health care costs": Yes, again, absolutely true. Unfortunately, this is a real issue that real business owners have to address, and the uncertainties to which I have already referred are exacerbating that; also unfortunately, many of those business owners who listen to (and believe out of hand) conservative radio and pundits are over-reacting, causing them to worry about issues that don't exist for the size of their business. But at least the passing of the elections will provide them with more certainties, one way or the other, than they have now.

Regarding your inferences that I'm either (a) profiting from the misery of my clients or (b) not serving them properly, there's not much I can say about that. Your comments are so full of ignorant assumptions that I'm afraid I don't want to burn the effort trying to defend something against a person with no understanding or knowledge of either what I do or how well I do it.

Now, if you want to continue your condescending, patronizing attitude with me, that's fine, but if so I would suggest that you can back up such behavior with actual facts, actual quotes, fewer straw men arguments, fewer simplistic assumptions and a bit more intellectual honesty.

I hope this has provided some clarity.

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

They now understand that he's a hardcore Chavez style socialist.

That's why many Democrats (aka: Neo-Marxists) adore him

 

[zeke]

I am very clear Mac. You come to a political message board that is as partisan as any I have ever been on and want to straddle the fence. Cool.

But when you view your writings in the context of a partisan political message board, somewhere along the line you have given the impression that you support the partisan rants of the right wingers on here.

Sorry if I miscontrued what you have been saying. But you say it very well. Definitely educated.

Does this mean you will be voting Obama?

btw,. I didn't imply or say that you were not doing your job. . That was your "straw man". What I meant to say was that IF you are soliciting business from the very people who are giving you these opinions, then it is very unlikely that you would correct them or argue with them. Right? or wrong?
I do it all the time. I have an pt employee who loves Fox. Brings Fox rants to work all the time. I igore him because I need the work done that he is capable of doing. No need to piss him off by telling him he is wrong. He might quit me. But he is still wrong about what he thinks.

 

[zeke]

You know what Mac. I went back and read what you wrote and my response. I didn't make any straw man argument.

You claimed that you had personally spoke with all these people and all I did was ask you how the change in a President was going to ally those fears.

And you couldn't provide an answer and claim I am making "straw men". Bull shit. Maybe you should ask the people you spoke with my questions.

 

[Mac1958]

I am very clear Mac. You come to a political message board that is as partisan as any I have ever been on and want to straddle the fence. Cool.

But when you view your writings in the context of a partisan political message board, somewhere along the line you have given the impression that you support the partisan rants of the right wingers on here.

Sorry if I miscontrued what you have been saying. But you say it very well. Definitely educated.

Does this mean you will be voting Obama?

btw,. I didn't imply or say that you were not doing your job. . That was your "straw man". What I meant to say was that IF you are soliciting business from the very people who are giving you these opinions, then it is very unlikely that you would correct them or argue with them. Right? or wrong?
I do it all the time. I have an pt employee who loves Fox. Brings Fox rants to work all the time. I igore him because I need the work done that he is capable of doing. No need to piss him off by telling him he is wrong. He might quit me. But he is still wrong about what he thinks.

Great, I'll take your response as an admission.

Regarding "straddling the fence" - Like most Americans, I choose to think for myself. I feel just as strongly as a partisan does about any given issue, but the difference is that my opinions don't happen to conveniently and predictably fall in line with those of one partisan "side" or the other. On some issues I agree with the Democrats; on others I agree with the Republicans; on others I disagree with both. While that does apparently put me in the minority on this board, I've found that most folks don't give me too much crap about it, presumably because I try to treat people with sincere respect.

No, I won't be voting for either Obama or Romney. I have strong, passionate and intractable differences with both parties on topics that really matter to me, so I'm fucked. I'll be voting alternate party, so I already know I'll be a loser on November 6. But I'll definitely make the most of whatever situation either guy puts us in.

Yes, I definitely try to educate my clients on (what I feel) are the facts when it comes to their business as it pertains to the economy, politics, etc. And I also feel that being an independent who is not swayed by political ideology allows me to provide my clients with true, objective input, and apparently that's a bonus for them.

.

 

[Mac1958]

You know what Mac. I went back and read what you wrote and my response. I didn't make any straw man argument.

You claimed that you had personally spoke with all these people and all I did was ask you how the change in a President was going to ally those fears.

And you couldn't provide an answer and claim I am making "straw men". Bull shit. Maybe you should ask the people you spoke with my questions.

Here's a list:

"How does that work Mac? How is is that just because Obama care is rejected, how do they then know what future health care costs will be?"

Did I say anything like that?

"If they need hard working educated employees, what does that have to do with any President? Do Presidents train workers now?"

Did I say anything like that?

"Or do they have short term memory loss and think things were great when Obama was elected?"

Did I say anything like that?

"I don't doubt that people have told you what you say they have. I do wonder why you don't question what they tell you with a more critical opinion of their claims."

How would you know?

Perhaps we disagree on the meaning of the term "straw man argument".

.

 

[SniperFire]

I am very clear Mac. You come to a political message board that is as partisan as any I have ever been on and want to straddle the fence. Cool.

But when you view your writings in the context of a partisan political message board, somewhere along the line you have given the impression that you support the partisan rants of the right wingers on here.

Sorry if I miscontrued what you have been saying. But you say it very well. Definitely educated.

Does this mean you will be voting Obama?

btw,. I didn't imply or say that you were not doing your job. . That was your "straw man". What I meant to say was that IF you are soliciting business from the very people who are giving you these opinions, then it is very unlikely that you would correct them or argue with them. Right? or wrong?
I do it all the time. I have an pt employee who loves Fox. Brings Fox rants to work all the time. I igore him because I need the work done that he is capable of doing. No need to piss him off by telling him he is wrong. He might quit me. But he is still wrong about what he thinks.

Great, I'll take your response as an admission.

Regarding "straddling the fence" - Like most Americans, I choose to think for myself. I feel just as strongly as a partisan does about any given issue, but the difference is that my opinions don't happen to conveniently and predictably fall in line with those of one partisan "side" or the other. On some issues I agree with the Democrats; on others I agree with the Republicans; on others I disagree with both. While that does apparently put me in the minority on this board, I've found that most folks don't give me too much crap about it, presumably because I try to treat people with sincere respect.

No, I won't be voting for either Obama or Romney. I have strong, passionate and intractable differences with both parties on topics that really matter to me, so I'm fucked. I'll be voting alternate party, so I already know I'll be a loser on November 6. But I'll definitely make the most of whatever situation either guy puts us in.

Yes, I definitely try to educate my clients on (what I feel) are the facts when it comes to their business as it pertains to the economy, politics, etc. And I also feel that being an independent who is not swayed by political ideology allows me to provide my clients with true, objective input, and apparently that's a bonus for them.

.

Wow. Mac is actually going to take a stand!


Who will you be pimping? Let's see which policies you will actually be supporting for once.

 

[Mac1958]

I am very clear Mac. You come to a political message board that is as partisan as any I have ever been on and want to straddle the fence. Cool.

But when you view your writings in the context of a partisan political message board, somewhere along the line you have given the impression that you support the partisan rants of the right wingers on here.

Sorry if I miscontrued what you have been saying. But you say it very well. Definitely educated.

Does this mean you will be voting Obama?

btw,. I didn't imply or say that you were not doing your job. . That was your "straw man". What I meant to say was that IF you are soliciting business from the very people who are giving you these opinions, then it is very unlikely that you would correct them or argue with them. Right? or wrong?
I do it all the time. I have an pt employee who loves Fox. Brings Fox rants to work all the time. I igore him because I need the work done that he is capable of doing. No need to piss him off by telling him he is wrong. He might quit me. But he is still wrong about what he thinks.

Great, I'll take your response as an admission.

Regarding "straddling the fence" - Like most Americans, I choose to think for myself. I feel just as strongly as a partisan does about any given issue, but the difference is that my opinions don't happen to conveniently and predictably fall in line with those of one partisan "side" or the other. On some issues I agree with the Democrats; on others I agree with the Republicans; on others I disagree with both. While that does apparently put me in the minority on this board, I've found that most folks don't give me too much crap about it, presumably because I try to treat people with sincere respect.

No, I won't be voting for either Obama or Romney. I have strong, passionate and intractable differences with both parties on topics that really matter to me, so I'm fucked. I'll be voting alternate party, so I already know I'll be a loser on November 6. But I'll definitely make the most of whatever situation either guy puts us in.

Yes, I definitely try to educate my clients on (what I feel) are the facts when it comes to their business as it pertains to the economy, politics, etc. And I also feel that being an independent who is not swayed by political ideology allows me to provide my clients with true, objective input, and apparently that's a bonus for them.

.

Wow. Mac is actually going to take a stand!


Who will you be pimping? Let's see which policies you will actually be supporting for once.

My opinions are all over the board. As you know.

But if you'd like to be specific, I'll be happy to respond.

.

 

[SniperFire]

Shucks. No, Mac isn't going to take a stand, afterall!


LOL

 

[Mac1958]

Shucks. No, Mac isn't going to take a stand, afterall!


LOL

You're running.

Pick a topic, make a list of topics, I don't care. I'd rather not hijack this thread, so I invite you to start a new one. But either way, I'm waiting.

Back up your words.

.

 

[SniperFire]

Shucks. No, Mac isn't going to take a stand, afterall!


LOL

You're running.

Pick a topic, I don't care. I'd rather not hijack this thread, so I invite you to start a new one. But either way, I'm waiting.

Back up your words.

.

OK. Topic: Mac's alternative party candidate in 2012

Who is it?

 

[Mac1958]

Shucks. No, Mac isn't going to take a stand, afterall!


LOL

You're running.

Pick a topic, I don't care. I'd rather not hijack this thread, so I invite you to start a new one. But either way, I'm waiting.

Back up your words.

.

OK. Topic: Mac's alternative party candidate in 2012

Who is it?

Since my two highest priorities are war and the various issues regarding PC and identity politics, the closest candidate I've identified who agrees with me on those two issues is Gary Johnson. So I'm expecting to vote for him.

Unfortunately, the Libertarian party is chock full of whackos, but I've come to realize that so are both major parties.

Next?

.

 

[SniperFire]

Narco-Libertarian.

Got it!


LOL

 

[bripat9643]

Narco-Libertarian.

Got it!


LOL

And you're a goose stepping neo-Nazi.

 

[Mac1958]

Narco-Libertarian.

Got it!


LOL

Holy crap, that's IT?

You constantly bitch and moan that I don't take a stand, I invite you to provide a list of topics to discuss, and that's IT?

I told you who and I told you why. I truly don't care whether you agree or not; I expect you to obediently vote for the person with the (R) next to their name like a good Republican.

But you're not going to press me on anything else? After all your whining?

.