Top 100 Athletes of the 20th Century

[TheGreatGatsby]

I would have put Roberto Clemente higher than many of the other baseball players. Warren Spaun is listed higher than Clemente!!!!

240 career home runs and .359 OBP. Hardly great numbers.

 

[Papageorgio]

Yea__ when Horace Horse Grant and Bill Cartwright are your 3rd and 4th best players.....Even the little two guards Scott and Ainge would have shredded Paxson.

And even the Pistons only lost to the Bulls as age and injury set-in.

You have to be a real BB guy to know this; but teams like the 86 Rockets went 12 freaking deep. IMO - the best team to not win a championship. The early 80s Sixers went 10 deep. Their back 5 could've kept up with the Bulls. It's no wonder that the great C's only went 2 of 4 against them in and 1 of 3 early on. The Sixers even swept the Lakers in 83.

Then you get to the end of the 80's, even teams like the Jazz and Mavericks were better than those Bulls teams.

Unfortunately, we live in a nit wit culture (and for those that didn't see it, you can't exactly blame them full on); that just count rings and think that's the be all and end all.

Right, I forgot I was talking to a Celtics fan, they think they know basketball.

I am a real "BB" fan and I still disagree with your biased assessment of Bird. He had a great supporting cast. I never thought Chicago was ever that deep. The Celtics and Lakers had some great role players.

That's a copout. Everyone has biases dude. If I let my bias rule me, I would have claimed that Brett Favre (my favorite football player) was the greatest football player of all-time.


The truth of the matter is, that most people that say Jordan was the greatest are his "biggest fan" btw. You think they aren't biased? They idolize him. And some day, Jordan won't be the so-called consensus greatest b/c some other guy will have a group of "biggest fans" and the media will be all too happy to sell the latest and greatest.

I'm not a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Laker, Bulls or Celtic fan, none of the three were my favorite when they played. Dr. J was a great player but not a top 5 or 10, but fun to watch. Kiki Vandeweghe had one of the prettiest shots and I remember watching him score 30 a game and think, where did they come from. Kobe I'd rate higher but I find him to selfish, the same as Lebron. I also wonder how great Walton would have been without all the injuries, he could have been one of the greatest.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Right, I forgot I was talking to a Celtics fan, they think they know basketball.

I am a real "BB" fan and I still disagree with your biased assessment of Bird. He had a great supporting cast. I never thought Chicago was ever that deep. The Celtics and Lakers had some great role players.

That's a copout. Everyone has biases dude. If I let my bias rule me, I would have claimed that Brett Favre (my favorite football player) was the greatest football player of all-time.


The truth of the matter is, that most people that say Jordan was the greatest are his "biggest fan" btw. You think they aren't biased? They idolize him. And some day, Jordan won't be the so-called consensus greatest b/c some other guy will have a group of "biggest fans" and the media will be all too happy to sell the latest and greatest.

I'm not a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Laker, Bulls or Celtic fan, none of the three were my favorite when they played. Dr. J was a great player but not a top 5 or 10, but fun to watch. Kiki Vandeweghe had one of the prettiest shots and I remember watching him score 30 a game and think, where did they come from. Kobe I'd rate higher but I find him to selfish, the same as Lebron. I also wonder how great Walton would have been without all the injuries, he could have been one of the greatest.

When Shaq/Gasol weren't there; Kobe jacked up shots and padded his stats and had losing seasons. And as the wheels came off against the Thunder, he tried to be a hero and he shot them out of games. Bird would never have done that. Kobe is nothing more than Jordan Lite and he has a shooting percentage which reflects that.

 

[Synthaholic]

Nolan Ryan is way too high at 67. He was not even the best pitcher of his era and never even won a Cy Young. Seaver, Carleton, Spahn, Gibson, Marichal all pitched in his era and dominated more than Ryan did

Yeah, I saw that. Ryan the pitcher is almost as overrated as Ryan the politician.

You could make the case for Maddux being on the list. You don't become the all-time leader in Gold Gloves (18) without great reflexes and athletic ability. Of course, where you end up after you've thrown a pitch also has a lot to do with that, so I may be overstating the importance. But you still have to catch the ball.

My all-time R/L pitchers are both Braves: Maddux and Spahn. Most people today are familiar with Greg's brilliance, but don't realize that Spahn had 13 20-win seasons for a mediocre franchise. Spahn is the answer I give when people excuse Ryan's poor record due to the mediocre clubs he played for.

Warren Spahn in 1963, 42 years old

23-7 , 2.60 ERA, 22 CG, 7 Shutouts

Better than any year Nolan Ryan ever had

Against a golden age of NL batters, too, like Mays, Cepeda, Santo, McCovey, Pinson, Davis, Billy Williams, Frank Robinson, Clemente, Mazeroski...

At least he didn't have to pitch against Aaron and Matthews.

ETA: the Braves ended the 1963 season in 6th place, with only the Cubs, Pirates, Colt 45's, and lowly Mets worse than them.

 

[Synthaholic]

Nolan Ryan is way too high at 67. He was not even the best pitcher of his era and never even won a Cy Young. Seaver, Carleton, Spahn, Gibson, Marichal all pitched in his era and dominated more than Ryan did

First off, throw Marichal out of the equation. He had a good 7 year span. That's it.

And his 2.89 ERA to Ryan's 3.19 overlooks that Ryan played against the higher scoring AL for much of his career. And Ryan was that close despite pitching for 11 more years! Plus, don't forget that Ryan was a power pitcher. If he wasn't feeling that well, he was going to pay a price on a given day b/c he didn't rely as much on the second and third option. But when Ryan was on; he was fucking on. That's why the guy had 7 no-hitters and like a million 1 and 2 hitters. It's also why the 5,719 people he struck out, obliterates the record.

As for not winning a Cy Young - Who the f cares. He's the same pitcher as Roger Clemens who won like 7 of them.

Ryan LOST 300 games.

And he did have a good curve ball, so he wasn't just a fastball pitcher.

His main problem was control and playing for mediocre teams.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

That's a copout. Everyone has biases dude. If I let my bias rule me, I would have claimed that Brett Favre (my favorite football player) was the greatest football player of all-time.


The truth of the matter is, that most people that say Jordan was the greatest are his "biggest fan" btw. You think they aren't biased? They idolize him. And some day, Jordan won't be the so-called consensus greatest b/c some other guy will have a group of "biggest fans" and the media will be all too happy to sell the latest and greatest.

I'm not a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Laker, Bulls or Celtic fan, none of the three were my favorite when they played. Dr. J was a great player but not a top 5 or 10, but fun to watch. Kiki Vandeweghe had one of the prettiest shots and I remember watching him score 30 a game and think, where did they come from. Kobe I'd rate higher but I find him to selfish, the same as Lebron. I also wonder how great Walton would have been without all the injuries, he could have been one of the greatest.

When Shaq/Gasol weren't there; Kobe jacked up shots and padded his stats and had losing seasons. And as the wheels came off against the Thunder, he tried to be a hero and he shot them out of games. Bird would never have done that. Kobe is nothing more than Jordan Lite and he has a shooting percentage which reflects that.

BTW - How many times has Kobe been blown out by 30 plus in close-out games? About 6 or 7 times. That's why I laugh when I hear people pretend that Kobe deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Bird.

 

[Synthaholic]

I would have put Roberto Clemente higher than many of the other baseball players. Warren Spaun is listed higher than Clemente!!!!

Warren Spahn is the best LHP in MLB history.

I would have put Roberto Clemente higher than many of the other baseball players. Warren Spaun is listed higher than Clemente!!!!

240 career home runs and .359 OBP. Hardly great numbers.

Clemente is *perhaps* the best rightfielder in MLB history. He not only had one of the best outfield arms in history, he turned 42 double plays from RF.

He hit over .300 in 12 of his final 13 seasons, and had 3000 hits. I'd say those are great numbers.

 

[Papageorgio]

That's a copout. Everyone has biases dude. If I let my bias rule me, I would have claimed that Brett Favre (my favorite football player) was the greatest football player of all-time.


The truth of the matter is, that most people that say Jordan was the greatest are his "biggest fan" btw. You think they aren't biased? They idolize him. And some day, Jordan won't be the so-called consensus greatest b/c some other guy will have a group of "biggest fans" and the media will be all too happy to sell the latest and greatest.

I'm not a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Laker, Bulls or Celtic fan, none of the three were my favorite when they played. Dr. J was a great player but not a top 5 or 10, but fun to watch. Kiki Vandeweghe had one of the prettiest shots and I remember watching him score 30 a game and think, where did they come from. Kobe I'd rate higher but I find him to selfish, the same as Lebron. I also wonder how great Walton would have been without all the injuries, he could have been one of the greatest.

When Shaq/Gasol weren't there; Kobe jacked up shots and padded his stats and had losing seasons. And as the wheels came off against the Thunder, he tried to be a hero and he shot them out of games. Bird would never have done that. Kobe is nothing more than Jordan Lite and he has a shooting percentage which reflects that.

No one person can carry an NBA team, without talent surrounding you, you are done in today's NBA. The Lakers were a poor cast this year. Kobe doesn't make others that much better. That's why he isn't in my top ten.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I'm not a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Laker, Bulls or Celtic fan, none of the three were my favorite when they played. Dr. J was a great player but not a top 5 or 10, but fun to watch. Kiki Vandeweghe had one of the prettiest shots and I remember watching him score 30 a game and think, where did they come from. Kobe I'd rate higher but I find him to selfish, the same as Lebron. I also wonder how great Walton would have been without all the injuries, he could have been one of the greatest.

When Shaq/Gasol weren't there; Kobe jacked up shots and padded his stats and had losing seasons. And as the wheels came off against the Thunder, he tried to be a hero and he shot them out of games. Bird would never have done that. Kobe is nothing more than Jordan Lite and he has a shooting percentage which reflects that.

No one person can carry an NBA team, without talent surrounding you, you are done in today's NBA. The Lakers were a poor cast this year. Kobe doesn't make others that much better. That's why he isn't in my top ten.

No one person can carry a team. But one person can be the difference between mediocrity and greatness. And that was always true in the case of Bird and not Jordan/Kobe.

Bird took nobodies to an undefeated season in college basketball. He took a last place team with 28 wins and he turned them into a 60 win team his rookie year and champions the next year.

Contrast that with Jordan who came in the league and ball hogged and he took a 27 win team to 38 wins and three straight losing seasons.

 

[ginscpy]

Kareem won 4 college NC - if you include his freshman season.

PERFECTO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And he was under pressure to do so being highly touted out of HS - and deleived.

Won theNBA title with Milwaukee in 2nd season.

Should be rated above Wilt C. or Jordan in basketball. (Jordan was crappy in HS and college)

Niclklaus should be in thetop 5.

Clay/Ali couldnt punch.

 

[rightwinger]

Nolan Ryan is way too high at 67. He was not even the best pitcher of his era and never even won a Cy Young. Seaver, Carleton, Spahn, Gibson, Marichal all pitched in his era and dominated more than Ryan did

First off, throw Marichal out of the equation. He had a good 7 year span. That's it.

And his 2.89 ERA to Ryan's 3.19 overlooks that Ryan played against the higher scoring AL for much of his career. And Ryan was that close despite pitching for 11 more years! Plus, don't forget that Ryan was a power pitcher. If he wasn't feeling that well, he was going to pay a price on a given day b/c he didn't rely as much on the second and third option. But when Ryan was on; he was fucking on. That's why the guy had 7 no-hitters and like a million 1 and 2 hitters. It's also why the 5,719 people he struck out, obliterates the record.

As for not winning a Cy Young - Who the f cares. He's the same pitcher as Roger Clemens who won like 7 of them.

A good 7 year span?

The point is that Ryan did not have a good seven year span. Marichal had seasons of 25-8, 26-9, 25-6 while Ryan only cracked 20 wins once pitching in the same era. Ryan pitched in the "higher scoring AL"? The AL sucked in the 60-70s, the NL had all the stars on both sides. Look at the Hall of Famers from that era, most played in the NL

Ryan had seven no-hitters which equates to seven great games that you compare to Marichals seven great seasons

Ryan was not a great pitcher because he lacked control for most of his career. Leading the league in walks negates leading the league in strikeouts

 

[Papageorgio]

When Shaq/Gasol weren't there; Kobe jacked up shots and padded his stats and had losing seasons. And as the wheels came off against the Thunder, he tried to be a hero and he shot them out of games. Bird would never have done that. Kobe is nothing more than Jordan Lite and he has a shooting percentage which reflects that.

No one person can carry an NBA team, without talent surrounding you, you are done in today's NBA. The Lakers were a poor cast this year. Kobe doesn't make others that much better. That's why he isn't in my top ten.

No one person can carry a team. But one person can be the difference between mediocrity and greatness. And that was always true in the case of Bird and not Jordan/Kobe.

Bird took nobodies to an undefeated season in college basketball. He took a last place team with 28 wins and he turned them into a 60 win team his rookie year and champions the next year.

Contrast that with Jordan who came in the league and ball hogged and he took a 27 win team to 38 wins and three straight losing seasons.

The year before was the team swap with Buffalo, it was a mess from day one. The year Bird came to Boston, the team had 8 players averaging double figures and was a very deep team.

 

[Papageorgio]

Kareem won 4 college NC - if you include his freshman season.

PERFECTO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And he was under pressure to do so being highly touted out of HS - and deleived.

Won theNBA title with Milwaukee in 2nd season.

Should be rated above Wilt C. or Jordan in basketball. (Jordan was crappy in HS and college)

Niclklaus should be in thetop 5.

Clay/Ali couldnt punch.

I have Jabbar right behind Jordan, the guy was unstoppable with that skyhook.

 

[NoNukes]

I would have put Roberto Clemente higher than many of the other baseball players. Warren Spaun is listed higher than Clemente!!!!

240 career home runs and .359 OBP. Hardly great numbers.

Clemente did not swing for the fences, and he was the best clutch hitter that I ever saw. He was one of the best fielders ever.

 

[Synthaholic]

I would have put Roberto Clemente higher than many of the other baseball players. Warren Spaun is listed higher than Clemente!!!!

240 career home runs and .359 OBP. Hardly great numbers.

Clemente did not swing for the fences, and he was the best clutch hitter that I ever saw. He was one of the best fielders ever.

Imaging where he would have ended up had he not died in that plane crash. He was 38, but in great shape, and prolly could have played 4 more years.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

These "Top 100" lists are completely subjective, and there are so many VARIABLES involved that the whole list is nothing but a popularity contest.

How can you compare an athlete from 75 years ago to an athlete from 10 years ago? You really can't.

Plug in the variables, and it's extremely difficult to compare an athlete from one era to an athlete from a different era.

1. Equipment
2. Playing conditions
3. Quality and quantity of competition
4. Advances in conditioning, rehabilitation, surgery, etc.
5. Rules changes
6. The "color barrier"
7. Coaching
8. Natural progressions in height, strength, agility, etc.

Even with horse racing, it's difficult to compare the two greatest racehorses in history, Secretariat and Man O' War, and they raced "only" 54 years apart. These two horses had many similarities, but Secretariat raced against better competition, raced on better racing surfaces, and had, arguably, more advanced training "methods".

This sort of topic is a popularity contest.

My top "athletes" in each "major" sport, without choosing my "favorite" players and being as objective as possible, are:

Basketball: Michael Jordan. Nobody else is even close.

Football: Quarterback- John Elway. Running back- tie between Barry Sanders and Walter Payton. Wide receiver- Jerry Rice.

Baseball: Overall- Willie Mays. Pitcher- Roger Clemens

Golf: Jack Nicklaus

Hockey: I have no friggin' idea. Not a fan.

 

[rightwinger]

These "Top 100" lists are completely subjective, and there are so many VARIABLES involved that the whole list is nothing but a popularity contest.

How can you compare an athlete from 75 years ago to an athlete from 10 years ago? You really can't.

Plug in the variables, and it's extremely difficult to compare an athlete from one era to an athlete from a different era.

1. Equipment
2. Playing conditions
3. Quality and quantity of competition
4. Advances in conditioning, rehabilitation, surgery, etc.
5. Rules changes
6. The "color barrier"
7. Coaching
8. Natural progressions in height, strength, agility, etc.

Even with horse racing, it's difficult to compare the two greatest racehorses in history, Secretariat and Man O' War, and they raced "only" 54 years apart. These two horses had many similarities, but Secretariat raced against better competition, raced on better racing surfaces, and had, arguably, more advanced training "methods".

This sort of topic is a popularity contest.

My top "athletes" in each "major" sport, without choosing my "favorite" players and being as objective as possible, are:

Basketball: Michael Jordan. Nobody else is even close.

Football: Quarterback- John Elway. Running back- tie between Barry Sanders and Walter Payton. Wide receiver- Jerry Rice.

Baseball: Overall- Willie Mays. Pitcher- Roger Clemens

Golf: Jack Nicklaus

Hockey: I have no friggin' idea. Not a fan.

I agree mostly

You can't compare athletes of different eras. For the most part, athletes today are better than they were 40-50 years ago with very few exceptions. The best you can do is look at how they dominated the competition of the day. Babe Ruth was vastly superior to ballplayers of his day. I doubt if he would be as dominant against todays players

In sports like track and field, swimming and horseracing it is easy to compare. Secretariats records still have not been approached. Jim Thorpes times and distances in the Olympics are beaten by women today

 

[auditor0007]

Secretariat is ranked at 81. I would rank Secretariat in the top 25, easily.

Golfers are FRINGE athletes, at best. Tennis players aren't far behind.

At least they didn't list any BOWLERS.

I can understand the argument against golfers, but tennis players? Have you ever even watched a match?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

No one person can carry an NBA team, without talent surrounding you, you are done in today's NBA. The Lakers were a poor cast this year. Kobe doesn't make others that much better. That's why he isn't in my top ten.

No one person can carry a team. But one person can be the difference between mediocrity and greatness. And that was always true in the case of Bird and not Jordan/Kobe.

Bird took nobodies to an undefeated season in college basketball. He took a last place team with 28 wins and he turned them into a 60 win team his rookie year and champions the next year.

Contrast that with Jordan who came in the league and ball hogged and he took a 27 win team to 38 wins and three straight losing seasons.

The year before was the team swap with Buffalo, it was a mess from day one. The year Bird came to Boston, the team had 8 players averaging double figures and was a very deep team.

It was the same exact team though__ minus McAdoo who was a HOFer. And they didn't have major injury problems the year before either. That's just how great Bird was for team chemistry.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Kareem won 4 college NC - if you include his freshman season.

PERFECTO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And he was under pressure to do so being highly touted out of HS - and deleived.

Won theNBA title with Milwaukee in 2nd season.

Should be rated above Wilt C. or Jordan in basketball. (Jordan was crappy in HS and college)

Niclklaus should be in thetop 5.

Clay/Ali couldnt punch.

I have Jabbar right behind Jordan, the guy was unstoppable with that skyhook.

Really depends on what NBA we'd be talking about. The 60/70's in which small touches aren't called fouls or David Stern's jury rigged NBA where a good day is putting Jordan on the line 18 times. If we're playing Man Ball; I'll take Kareem; and I'll take Russsell over him probably; b/c he did all the little things.