Tolerance vs. Reason

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by -=d=-
when have you last read the new testiment?



For homosexuality not being 'condemned' it's sure grouped with some heavy things...

I agree. i would suggest you be more specific with the verses though just because of the people we are dealing with.

 

[Shazbot]

Originally posted by menewa
How come Christians simply pick and choose what to follow out of the bible. Jeff, you oppose gay/lesbian marriage b/c the bible tells you so. But it also tells you not to eat pork and to stone your wife to death if she cheats on you. The Old Testament is full of crazy laws we, thankfully, no longer follow. Why do you choose to follow some of the rules in the bible, but not all of them?

If you're really interested, I can answer your questions to the best of my knowledge and experience as to exactly what bible laws and statutes are to be obeyed/not obeyed and why.

As for the pork...that was a rule of the old Law that God gave to Moses. That law was fulfilled when Christ died...we now have the "higher law." If you remember, after Christ died and was resurrected, Peter had a dream in which he saw various "unclean" animals. Upon stating such, God repremanded him, saying that he not call unclean what He (the Lord) had made clean. Technically, the purpose of the vision was to tell Peter that he could preach to the Gentiles and not only the Jews anymore...kind of a dual-purpose scripture .

Stoning wife to death...also part of said Law. Christ instituted, instead, the idea of tolerance and forgiveness.

-Douglas

 

[HGROKIT]

adding to what Shzbot wrote - when studying the NT - there is an assumed stipulation (but also a verse), that if you practive the teachings of Christ, there really is no need for the old laws.

Why? The first command or teaching (for lack of a better word) given by Christ was to love one another as you would love yourself and to love God with all your heart and sould. If you are loving one another as yourself, how could you kill, rob, cheat, steal etc.

The remainder of his techings in simplest terms was that of love, patience, tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness. Most of all to remember that ther is a God and I am not he.

Now, it gets deeper, but what I have written is the basic precept. With Christ's death and ressurection, we were granted reprieve from the old law.

Where is New Guy?

 

[5stringJeff]

menewa, some people have already answered the question (thanks!) but here's my take:

In the OT, there are hundreds of laws; dietary laws, clothing laws, laws regarding slaves, property, etc. There are also moral laws (i.e. the ten commandments, etc.). When Jesus came, He set us free from having to obey the letter of the Mosaic Law, though we were still under then moral law of God. See Romans 7:1-6:
"Or do you not know, brothers --for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit."

Regarding homosexuality, there are two passages that I can think of off the top of my head that condemn it:

1 Corintians 6:9-10: "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:24-32: "Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."

The last verse alludes to my original post; homosexuality has now become something that we are forced to give approval to in today's society.

Hope that clarifies my view.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I have a question that you could probably answer.

How come in some instances, Catholics are considered Christians by Christians and even by Catholics, but in other instances they are not considered Chirstians by Christians?

I'm just wondering that.

Starla, Catholicism is a Christian denomination, but some of their beliefs and practices are not shared by other Christians, nor are they found in the Bible. For example, Catholics pray to other people besides God, because they believe that these people can pray for them to God. Also, Catholics believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth, and that, while acting in official capacity, he is infallible. Neither doctrines are found in the Bible; thus, some Christians decide to call them non-Christians. I personally have known many Catholics who try to follow Christ to the best of their ability and knowledge, and so I am not one of those who call all Catholics non-Christians, though I am certainly against calling the Pope infallable or praying to people who have died.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
Damn fine post and subject matter, Jeff

As per my usual M.O. (lol), I will need to think and pick my thoughts apart before responding

Can't wait to read it!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Religion is rooted in the subjective, the metaphysical. Its experiences cannot be independently, objectively and repeatably verified. It is not rooted in this world or this life, but in another world and some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. That is why it is "chaos", as one writer here put it.

 

[KLSuddeth]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Religion is rooted in the subjective, the metaphysical. Its experiences cannot be independently, objectively and repeatably verified. It is not rooted in this world or this life, but in another world and some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. That is why it is "chaos", as one writer here put it.

details, bully. Or rather, please go into further detail re. your above post. Id be interested in reading it.

 

[KLSuddeth]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Can't wait to read it!

Youre sure about that?!?

JK!!!!:

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Religion is rooted in the subjective, the metaphysical. Its experiences cannot be independently, objectively and repeatably verified. It is not rooted in this world or this life, but in another world and some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. That is why it is "chaos", as one writer here put it.

Its amazing how you can use big words and still say absolutely nothing.

If you want proof. Talk to God. He can prove it to every single person and will if they want to find out the truth.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Religion is rooted in the subjective, the metaphysical. Its experiences cannot be independently, objectively and repeatably verified. It is not rooted in this world or this life, but in another world and some mythical, metaphysical afterlife. That is why it is "chaos", as one writer here put it.

Bully, I think we've talked about this before, but there are events that were independently verified, such as the resurrection of Jesus, that are the cornerstone of Christianity. The event was verified by hundreds of people at the time it occurred, though only the written records of four (five, counting Paul) remain. Regardless, this event - on which the entire Christian faith rests - is not subjective or metaphysical. It is a real event, which really happened, and was verified by people at the time it happened. So I think your statement is false.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
menewa, some people have already answered the question (thanks!) but here's my take:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply jeff. That does salve some of my confusion.