Today's American History lesson.

[JoeB131]

The South was better at Capitalism. They took existing US law and turned it into a billion dollar per year enterprise. The North having slaves for all those 89 years could not do that.

Um, dude, the South were a bunch of rich white assholes getting rich off slave labor and using the poor dumb white trash as cannon fodder.

The only sad thing about the Civil War was that it didn't remove enough of you people from the Gene Pool.

 

[JoeB131]

Other Northern States namely Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana freed their slaves and then immediately passed anti-black immigration laws to keep freed slaves out of their states

Guy, you can try all day to put lipstick on this pig, but the reality is- the South was wrong.

 

[Scamp]

Nailed it. Money was more impotent to Yankees than the morality of slavery.

What do you mean. Are you saying taking banning slavery cost money? Care to explain that reasoning? Slaves were used in many different facets in the south than just working in the fields.

And what are you basing your belief they wouldn't have done away with slaves on? A LOT of the states that banned slavery had heavy agriculture. They just chose to do it without slaves. By 1860, the free states had nearly twice the value of farm machinery per acre and per farm worker as did the slave states, leading to increased productivity. As a result, in 1860, the Northern states produced half of the nation's corn, four-fifths of its wheat, and seven-eighths of its oats.

Just a difference in choice. South did it with slaves. North did it with technology.

Corn, wheat, and oats are nothing compared to cotton and tobacco when it came to money. The South only grew enough of that to feed their animals. They grew the big money crops. Better at Capitalism.

 

[JoeB131]

During the 200 years of slavery in the North they just couldn't make the money. Couldn't grow the big money crops because of climate. They tried to teach slaves to work in the factories of the industrialised north. Failed that.

How Scamp sees black people, no doubt.

 

[Boss]

Um, dude, the South were a bunch of rich white assholes getting rich off slave labor...

That'a simply an ignorant bigoted viewpoint. Only 2% of the Southern population owned plantations. Only about 12% of Southerners owned any slaves at all. The other 88% didn't own slaves and most didn't know anyone who did. As for who was profiting from slave labor-- EVERYONE was! That's what made it such a huge problem to get rid of.

 

[bodecea]

The Confederacy had slavery for 4 years.

The USA had slavery for 89 years.

The con-federacy lasted 4 years, started a war, and got their asses kicked. The end.

 

[JoeB131]

That'a simply an ignorant bigoted viewpoint. Only 2% of the Southern population owned plantations. Only about 12% of Southerners owned any slaves at all. The other 88% didn't own slaves and most didn't know anyone who did. As for who was profiting from slave labor-- EVERYONE was! That's what made it such a huge problem to get rid of.

Oh, wait, are you going to try to claim there were these magical parts of the South where they didn't know what slavery was.

Yes, a lot of the 88% didn't own slaves, but the last thing they wanted was the slaves to be free and compete with them for jobs and women. (You know, because they work harder and have bigger... well, anyway.) So these poor dumb inbred whites were happy to fight to keep slavery, because they probably were horrified at the thought of being at the bottom rung of society.

Come to think of it, kind of why a lot of you dumb inbred southerners vote Republican today.

 

[Slash]

Corn, wheat, and oats are nothing compared to cotton and tobacco when it came to money. The South only grew enough of that to feed their animals. They grew the big money crops. Better at Capitalism.

If your point is that the people that built this country had flaws. No crap. What they did not do was abandon this country. They did not wage war against this country. They did not try to overthrow this country. They did not try to ruin this country and they did not try to do those things for the purpose of protecting slavery.

 

[Scamp]

All the South wanted was Independence from the North. The US has a long history of getting involved in wars where a country wanted Independence from their neighboring country.

We all lost when Imperial subjugation won the war over States rights.

 

[Boss]

That'a simply an ignorant bigoted viewpoint. Only 2% of the Southern population owned plantations. Only about 12% of Southerners owned any slaves at all. The other 88% didn't own slaves and most didn't know anyone who did. As for who was profiting from slave labor-- EVERYONE was! That's what made it such a huge problem to get rid of.

Oh, wait, are you going to try to claim there were these magical parts of the South where they didn't know what slavery was.

Yes, a lot of the 88% didn't own slaves, but the last thing they wanted was the slaves to be free and compete with them for jobs and women. (You know, because they work harder and have bigger... well, anyway.) So these poor dumb inbred whites were happy to fight to keep slavery, because they probably were horrified at the thought of being at the bottom rung of society.

Come to think of it, kind of why a lot of you dumb inbred southerners vote Republican today.

No... 88% didn't own any slaves and most of them didn't know anyone who did. The truth of the matter is, MANY Southerners were abolitionists... who do you think ran the Underground Railroad? Most poor white people in the South would've welcomed the opportunity to compete for jobs. (I'm going to disregard your flagrant racist stereotype.)

What the Southern Confederate was fighting for was their homeland. Wealthy plantation owners used a loophole called "proxy service" to avoid having to go and fight or their sons having to do so. To the extent any plantation owners were involved in the Confederacy it was as Generals or Colonels to which they were appointed. Most of the men who died fighting for the CSA didn't own slaves or know anyone who did.

I know a lot about this because it's my family history. Most poor white people in the South were worse off than the slaves. At least the slaves had roofs over their heads and food in their bellies.

 

[Scamp]

Maybe some of you are ok with the President in Washington telling your State what they must do. Like allowing male sexual deviants to use the ladies bathroom.

 

[Slash]

All the South wanted was Independence from the North. The US has a long history of getting involved in wars where a country wanted Independence from their neighboring country.

We all lost when Imperial subjugation won the war over States rights.

And of course they wanted the dozens and dozens of banks, weapon caches, military hardware, bases, ships, mints, and other federal property. All of that was taken.

If Washington state came along and said "we are leaving the US, gonna take these Nuclear subs, all the money the federal government has here, a few aircraft carriers, and anything else we want from you, I'd hope we would stand up to that as well. Especially if they chose the reason to do that so that they could enslave other humans.

 

[Scamp]

Secession was legal then. Not now.

 

[Slash]

Secession was legal then. Not now.

Secession was never legal. Texas vs. White the US Supreme court rules on that. The secession of 1860/61 that led to the Civil war was unconstitutional.

 

[Boss]

Especially if they chose the reason to do that so that they could enslave other humans.

Again.... for the millionth time... enslaving humans was legal and upheld by the US Supreme Court.

IF the US had outlawed slavery and there were a bunch of states who wanted to ignore that and have slaves anyway, you'd have a point.... but that's not what happened at all. What you keep trying to do is retroactively apply laws that now exist to history of the past.

 

[Slash]

Also illegal was raiding federal stockpiles of weapons, taking over federal military bases. Taking control of US ships. Raiding US mints.

 

[Boss]

Secession was legal then. Not now.

Secession was never legal. Texas vs. White the US Supreme court rules on that. The secession of 1860/61 that led to the Civil war was unconstitutional.

A-gain... you are attempting to apply a ruling in 1869 to actions taken in 1861! You cannot retroactively apply law!

 

[Slash]

IF the US had outlawed slavery and there were a bunch of states who wanted to ignore that and have slaves anyway, you'd have a point.... but that's not what happened at all. What you keep trying to do is retroactively apply laws that now exist to history of the past.

Yes it was legal to own other humans. And the South wanted to make sure that would be a right granted to them in perpetuity rather than have to wonder if that right might someday be taken away. I'm not trying to retroactively apply any law

 

[Slash]

A-gain... you are attempting to apply a ruling in 1869 to actions taken in 1861! You cannot retroactively apply law!

No new law was created. The Supreme Court confirmed that the Constitution said secession was illegal. Meaning since it was written.

 

[Scamp]

All the South wanted was Independence from the North. The US has a long history of getting involved in wars where a country wanted Independence from their neighboring country.

We all lost when Imperial subjugation won the war over States rights.

And of course they wanted the dozens and dozens of banks, weapon caches, military hardware, bases, ships, mints, and other federal property. All of that was taken.

If Washington state came along and said "we are leaving the US, gonna take these Nuclear subs, all the money the federal government has here, a few aircraft carriers, and anything else we want from you, I'd hope we would stand up to that as well. Especially if they chose the reason to do that so that they could enslave other humans.

In the case of Fort Sumter, the sovereign state of SC gave the Union several chances to leave the fort peacefully.

But Slash you are correct in some cases Southern militias did indeed take Union equipment. But mostly the Southerners guarding that were showing their allegiance to their homeland and let it happen.