Today is Abraham Lincoln's birthday

[Wiseacre]

Below is his famous Gettysburg Address, given about 4 months after the battle that took so many American lives. If so inclined, please take a minute to read it, it's worth the time.



“ Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. "

 

[California Girl]

Happy Birthday, Mr President. You rocked!

 

[del]

in one of my favorite examples of synchronicity, it's also charles darwin's birthday

feb 12, 1809

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

 

[Wiseacre]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

 

[percysunshine]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

 

[Cuyo]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

In kneejerk fashion, I tend to feel the same way about Taaaayyyyyxus. But consider their respective economies. Losing either would do us great harm.

 

[Wiseacre]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

LOL, I just knew somebody was going to say that.

 

[Sarah G]

Happy Birthday, Honest Abe.

Make it a good one!​

 

[Dragon]

The Gettysburg Address was inspired. Now if only today's politicians would keep their speeches that short and to the point . . .

If the South had been allowed to secede peacefully or had won the Civil War, the likely result would have been further breakups of both countries. New England had a secession movement earlier than the South did. California and Texas might both have gone their own ways. The best argument against secession IMO was made years before the Civil War by Alexander Hamilton. You can read it here: Federalist Papers: FEDERALIST No. 8

 

[Sherry]

 

[Sunshine]

Lincoln only freed the SOUTHERN slaves:

On September 22, 1862, Lincoln announced that he would issue a formal emancipation of all slaves in any state of the Confederate States of America that did not return to Union control by January 1, 1863. None returned, and the order, signed and issued January 1, 1863, took effect except in locations where the Union had already mostly regained control. The Proclamation made abolition a central goal of the war (in addition to reunion), outraged white Southerners who envisioned a race war, angered some Northern Democrats, energized anti-slavery forces, and weakened forces in Europe that wanted to intervene to help the Confederacy.[2]

Emancipation Proclamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was slavery in the north as well:

Total Slave Population in US 1790–1860, by State[136] Census
Year 1790 1800 1810 1820 1830 1840 1850 1860
All States 694,207 887,612 1,130,781 1,529,012 1,987,428 2,482,798 3,200,600 3,950,546
Alabama – – – 47,449 117,549 253,532 342,844 435,080
Arkansas – – – – 4,576 19,935 47,100 111,115
California – – – – – – – –
Connecticut 2,648 951 310 97 25 54 – –
Delaware 8,887 6,153 4,177 4,509 3,292 2,605 2,290 1,798
Florida – – – – – 25,717 39,310 61,745
Georgia 29,264 59,699 105,218 149,656 217,531 280,944 381,682 462,198
Illinois – – – 917 747 331 – –
Indiana – – – 190 3 3 – –
Iowa – – – – – 16 – –
Kansas – – – – – – – 2
Kentucky 12,430 40,343 80,561 126,732 165,213 182,258 210,981 225,483
Louisiana – – – 69,064 109,588 168,452 244,809 331,726
Maine – – – – 2 – – –
Maryland 103,036 105,635 111,502 107,398 102,994 89,737 90,368 87,189
Massachusetts – – – – 1 – – –
Michigan – – – – 32 – – –
Minnesota – – – – – – – –
Mississippi – – – 32,814 65,659 195,211 309,878 436,631
Missouri – – – 10,222 25,096 58,240 87,422 114,931
Nebraska – – – – – – – 15
Nevada – – – – – – – –
New Hampshire 157 8 – – 3 1 – –
New Jersey 11,423 12,422 10,851 7,557 2,254 674 236 18
New York 21,193 20,613 15,017 10,088 75 4 – –
North Carolina 100,783 133,296 168,824 205,017 245,601 245,817 288,548 331,059
Ohio – – – – 6 3 – –
Oregon – – – – – – – –
Pennsylvania 3,707 1,706 795 211 403 64 – –
Rhode Island 958 380 108 48 17 5 – –
South Carolina 107,094 146,151 196,365 251,783 315,401 327,038 384,984 402,406
Tennessee – 13,584 44,535 80,107 141,603 183,059 239,459 275,719
Texas – – – – – – 58,161 182,566
Vermont – – – – – – – –
Virginia 292,627 346,671 392,518 425,153 469,757 449,087 472,528 490,865
Wisconsin – – – – – 11 4 –

(The table is more readable at the link below

Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Lincoln did not free the northern slaves.

 

[percysunshine]

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

In kneejerk fashion, I tend to feel the same way about Taaaayyyyyxus. But consider their respective economies. Losing either would do us great harm.

Are you kidding? Losing California would be like Europe jettisoning Greek debt. Texas is one of the few states that actually has a working economy.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

in one of my favorite examples of synchronicity, it's also charles darwin's birthday

feb 12, 1809

That is so cool. I didn't know that.


What is really weird is that Washington was born Feb 12 on the Julian calendar. We celebrate according to the gregorian calendar. Cool day for celebration.

 

[Sunshine]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

Make their slave labor go home and they probably woud leave!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Like most everything else Mencken, It was brilliantly put but totally wrong. Most of the southern populace voted to stay in. It was the aristocracy that took them out in the conventions.

The southern leadership was determined to set the US for the same fate as Poland 80 years before.

 

[percysunshine]

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

If California wanted to leave, I would not object.

Make their slave labor go home and they probably woud leave!

Any place that makes it illegal to throw a frisbee on a beach is so screwed up that it is not worth trying to save.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

What if California wants to secede from the Union? I live in Ohio. Who am I to tell them they can't? So the scenario is California seceding into its own independent government, and somehow that translates to me wanting anarchy? I don't think you know what anarchy is.

I'm sure those slaves would agree, since the Union wasn't fighting to free the slaves. Or maybe they wouldn't. I'm guessing they weren't exactly kept in the loop about what was going on.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Like most everything else Mencken, It was brilliantly put but totally wrong. Most of the southern populace voted to stay in. It was the aristocracy that took them out in the conventions.

The southern leadership was determined to set the US for the same fate as Poland 80 years before.

And yet it wasn't only the southern aristocracy that fought against the north. Wouldn't have been much of a war if that had been the case.

 

[Wiseacre]

"The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history...the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves." - H. L. Mencken

Note on the Gettysburg Address

Really? How long would we last as a nation if every group large and small decided it wants out, and we just let 'em go? All these nutjob militia groups saying they won't pay taxes and are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us, you're okay with that? Awhile back people made jokes about Rick Perry saying Texas might secede from the Union; he wasn't being serious, but what if he was? What if California says fuck you, we're going to print our own currency and setup our own independent gov't, you okay with that? You want anarchy? Letting every group do their own thing is an excellent way to get anarchy.

You say the Union soldiers fought against self-determination; wonder if the slaves at the time would agree. What about their right to self-determination?

What if California wants to secede from the Union? I live in Ohio. Who am I to tell them they can't? So the scenario is California seceding into its own independent government, and somehow that translates to me wanting anarchy? I don't think you know what anarchy is.

I'm sure those slaves would agree, since the Union wasn't fighting to free the slaves. Or maybe they wouldn't. I'm guessing they weren't exactly kept in the loop about what was going on.

Oh, I suspect most of those slaves knew what was going on. Miilions of 'em went north during the war and many of 'em fought on the union side during the war. When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, that made it a war of freedom for them. And Lincoln wanted it that way.

Didn't say anything about you wanting anarchy, dude. But if you're going to allow a state, city, county, or some religious group or militia outfit decide they want to secede from the union and not follow our laws any more, that sounds like anarchy to me.